All aboard for the Rush hype train

[CHRIS B PINBALLS]

Just finished the stream and meh! is my honest reaction, obviously the shots look great, they already are with Borg but my issue is it’s 95% x-men! And that double scoop looks like a flow killer zzzz.

At these prices I kinda want something new! I mean you can buy a Borg with the same recycled layouts or spend the same coin on an Elwin game and get a completely new layout/game.

Rush will be a fun game sterns always are I just feel we should be getting fresh experience not the same recycled stuff.

When you see how many games John Borg has made then you have no choice to copy some stuff
I think if Keith makes as many as John he will be repeating stuff
The upper flipper shots on avengers and Godzilla are pretty much the same the magnetic post is just a cheep version of the tower lock on Godzilla even the hold and count down feature is the same

 

[huggers]

I can't get on board with this game because the theme is absolute b0llocks. It's definitely cookie cutter Borg but I like Borg so that wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker. It's Gomez games that I tend to struggle with a bit in terms of layout.

 

[SpiderPin]

I've had a day to think about this game after the stream and I have two, and only two, gripes. The first is that there seems to be absolutely no kinetic satisfaction from hitting the target under the time machine. I think it would've been much better if it had been just a straight shot through the bottom of the time machine to a quick turn around, sort of like the Captain Marvel shot on AIQ pro. If, and it's a big if, we bought a Rush it would likely be the pro, so this wouldn't be an issue but it seems like a slight waste. Secondly, I don't like the direction Ray takes his code. I had this issue with LZ, and it's a shame for Rush because their songs are stories much like Maiden, but you don't get that feeling in the modes from the code, it's much too tournament heavy for me. Hopefully it's something that gets better with time, but if LZ is an indicator then this thing better be fun to shoot because god knows I wont understand the rules!

 

[mufcmufc]

I've had a day to think about this game after the stream and I have two, and only two, gripes. The first is that there seems to be absolutely no kinetic satisfaction from hitting the target under the time machine. I think it would've been much better if it had been just a straight shot through the bottom of the time machine to a quick turn around, sort of like the Captain Marvel shot on AIQ pro. If, and it's a big if, we bought a Rush it would likely be the pro, so this wouldn't be an issue but it seems like a slight waste. Secondly, I don't like the direction Ray takes his code. I had this issue with LZ, and it's a shame for Rush because their songs are stories much like Maiden, but you don't get that feeling in the modes from the code, it's much too tournament heavy for me. Hopefully it's something that gets better with time, but if LZ is an indicator then this thing better be fun to shoot because god knows I wont understand the rules!

I agree, I'm a tournament player but I made this exact point to someone earlier. It seems that Stern are trying to please tournament players whilst forgetting the newbie/casual on site players. A lot of stuff isn't obvious unless you're into pinball

 

[SpiderPin]

I agree, I'm a tournament player but I made this exact point to someone earlier. It seems that Stern are trying to please tournament players whilst forgetting the newbie/casual on site players. A lot of stuff isn't obvious unless you're into pinball

I also think theres a difference between complicated but fun rule sets (I'd put most Elwin games into this tier) and then rule sets that seem to be complicated for the sake of it - which seem to be the newer non-Elwin rule sets. I know most of the coding team are brilliant players, but sometimes the rules just seem like rules for the sake of saying it's got a "deep" rule set. The reason I love Lyman games isn't solely because they're complicated, it's because they're intuitive while still getting complicated if you get far / interested enough. I hope Ray will eventually move more towards this, but his first two attempts seem like he's been told he needs to produce a 200 page rule set just because.

 

[J85M]

only so many layouts in pinball L!

Everyone was saying that for years, I remember it being said a lot when Tron came out and Borg basically copied the layout from Funhouse, then Elwin showed up…

 

[VeeMonroe]

I agree, I'm a tournament player but I made this exact point to someone earlier. It seems that Stern are trying to please tournament players whilst forgetting the newbie/casual on site players. A lot of stuff isn't obvious unless you're into pinball

I watched a bit of the Rush launch video stream interspersed with the Godzilla one. Do you mean that the Godzilla LCD and callouts tell you what you should be doing, e.g. you select a monster, you shoot ramps to fight monster, you shoot labelled spinners to build jackpots? But the Rush LCD just seems to show a bunch of long-haired chaps jamming their way through a concert and every now and then, you get a picture of drums (or similar) with a score attached to it?

It’s not just difficult to understand; it’s also unfun to spectate as an onlooker. It’s like watching a full-screen music video with a bit of pinball-related information jammed into difficult-to-read text on the RHS of the screen. It’s like “Why does this screen (mainly) show concert footage and not communicate game-related information? If you like watching RUSH music videos that much, YouTube be a thing.”

 

[Sako-TRG]

Pinball is a plank of wood of certain size.
There’s only so much you can do surely before it looks like you are copying something .
Flippers, ramps, steel balls, mechs, wireforms etc…. I ask for great shots with no cheap drains and no major Alien PB brick shots at least.
I say theme integration matters with great sound effects, call outs, music whatever floats your boat tastefully done not forced.

 

[Sako-TRG]

Everyone was saying that for years, I remember it being said a lot when Tron came out and Borg basically copied the layout from Funhouse, then Elwin showed up…

Tron is basic, theme nails it, but apparently that doesn’t matter

 

[Gonzo]

I ask for great shots with no cheap drains
I say theme integration matters with great sound effects, call outs

That will do for me and if I can understand the rules too then we have a winner.

AIQ had great shots and no cheap drains but the rules were just a bit too much.

I don't know anything about Rush or the music but if it shoots well and the inserts tell me where to shoot then that's half the battle.

 

[J85M]

Tron is basic, theme nails it, but apparently that doesn’t matter

Not sure I understand, Tron is hailed as one of the greats, 4 in the past 12 months sold for over 20k US, it’s a top title with killer light and the soundtrack probably my fav in all of pinball.

 

[Deleted member 2463]

Everyone was saying that for years, I remember it being said a lot when Tron came out and Borg basically copied the layout from Funhouse, then Elwin showed up…

And nearly every Elwin layout is using another layout.

Compare IMDN to Indy 500.
Congo to parts of JP2 and GZ.
GZ destruction jackpot and Hawkeye!

Keith himself acknowledges it.

 

[Deleted member 2463]

Not sure I understand, Tron is hailed as one of the greats, 4 in the past 12 months sold for over 20k US, it’s a top title with killer light and the soundtrack probably my fav in all of pinball.

sorry in my view Tron is a terrible game. It sells high because of rarity more than anything else.

 

[Beowulfz07]

I quite like the layout and shots, it’s Borg and I like more than most of his tables.
Theme and artwork not for me, I love music pins and IM was phenomenal, but not rush.
I’m now down to one pin, prices mean I really have to careful what I buy and now I’m in the one in, one out club I really need a machine to tick all the boxes before I commit.
I’m holding my breath for bond, unless they make a mess of it, but something else may surprise.

 

[Deleted member 2463]

I agree, I'm a tournament player but I made this exact point to someone earlier. It seems that Stern are trying to please tournament players whilst forgetting the newbie/casual on site players. A lot of stuff isn't obvious unless you're into pinball

I don't agree with this, sure they want to engage tournament players but not solely:

Deadpool,
Guardians
Munsters
Turtles
Mando
Elvira
Stranger Things
Led Zep

all simple games with most features close to the plunge.

 

[Beowulfz07]

sorry in my view Tron is a terrible game. It sells high because of rarity more than anything else.

I liked Tron, but it would either drain like crazy and give you short games or you’d be at the wizard mode in no time.
The sound quality out of the box wasn’t great, purely down to sampling quality.
But it was a good pin to have in a line up as long you spent a shed load on mods etc

 

[Sako-TRG]

Not sure I understand, Tron is hailed as one of the greats, 4 in the past 12 months sold for over 20k US, it’s a top title with killer light and the soundtrack probably my fav in all of pinball.

Sorry, not aimed at u matey….

 

[J85M]

And nearly every Elwin layout is using another layout.

Compare IMDN to Indy 500.
Congo to parts of JP2 and GZ.
GZ destruction jackpot and Hawkeye!

Keith himself acknowledges it.

And that’s the difference, nothing wrong with taking inspiration from another game or nicking your favourite from one shot and dropping it into another.

My point is Borg is recycling 95% of his layouts, you can overlay Tron with Funhouse, stick Rush over Xmen, not bashing the games they all play great and totally different and Stern know how to make a fun game.

But Keith’s games are not using another layout, they might take inspiration or parts of other games but you can’t overlay IMDN to Indy 500 and say they are close to being the same.

Same with GZ & AIQ those inner loops are close for sure but the rest is pretty different, his shots lead to different places, Borgs kind of always lead to the same places and things, still a shot tonne of fun but at these prices imo I’d rather see things that mix things up.

 

[Sako-TRG]

I liked Tron, but it would either drain like crazy and give you short games or you’d be at the wizard mode in no time.
The sound quality out of the box wasn’t great, purely down to sampling quality.
But it was a good pin to have in a line up as long you spent a shed load on mods

Your kidding right?
One of the best IMO for sound effects on the planet.
Just buy a fully modded one, job done..
Edit: Think I moved the out lane posts on my one and it helped

 

[Deleted member 2463]

I watched a bit of the Rush launch video stream interspersed with the Godzilla one. Do you mean that the Godzilla LCD and callouts tell you what you should be doing, e.g. you select a monster, you shoot ramps to fight monster, you shoot labelled spinners to build jackpots? But the Rush LCD just seems to show a bunch of long-haired chaps jamming their way through a concert and every now and then, you get a picture of drums (or similar) with a score attached to it?

It’s not just difficult to understand; it’s also unfun to spectate as an onlooker. It’s like watching a full-screen music video with a bit of pinball-related information jammed into difficult-to-read text on the RHS of the screen. It’s like “Why does this screen (mainly) show concert footage and not communicate game-related information? If you like watching RUSH music videos that much, YouTube be a thing.”

the code is much earlier on Rush than GZ was at launch so I wouldn't be too focused on that.

However, I was working with my team at work about doing a pinball TV event and the producers I was working with said the only way they could see it working was if everyone played the same game.
The confusion on different games would put viewers off instantly. Not even the best commentating team could make up for it.

 

[Deleted member 2463]

And that’s the difference, nothing wrong with taking inspiration from another game or nicking your favourite from one shot and dropping it into another.

My point is Borg is recycling 95% of his layouts, you can overlay Tron with Funhouse, stick Rush over Xmen, not bashing the games they all play great and totally different and Stern know how to make a fun game.

But Keith’s games are not using another layout, they might take inspiration or parts of other games but you can’t overlay IMDN to Indy 500 and say they are close to being the same.

Same with GZ & AIQ those inner loops are close for sure but the rest is pretty different, his shots lead to different places, Borgs kind of always lead to the same places and things, still a shot tonne of fun but at these prices imo I’d rather see things that mix things up.

what game is TWD the same as? what game is Munsters the same as? what game is turtles the same as?

when Keith has done as many games as John lets see how he is doing!

 

[Sako-TRG]

sorry in my view Tron is a terrible game. It sells high because of rarity more than anything else.

It’s ok, it’s not your fault because people who aren’t really that cool, don’t recognise cool stuff… lol

 

[M4carp]

I liked Tron, but it would either drain like crazy and give you short games or you’d be at the wizard mode in no time.
The sound quality out of the box wasn’t great, purely down to sampling quality.
But it was a good pin to have in a line up as long you spent a shed load on mods etc

Agree about the sound, I have the movie mix I think. I fitted Infinity Kappa components (yes separate tweeters) and a sub/filter plus connected to a 15” sub and Avatar next to it sounds better by miles to me for quality.
My pro has every decent mod, Redshift etc. It’s ok in a decent line but I don’t see what all the fuss is about but guess it’s the theme.

 

[Sako-TRG]

Agree about the sound, I have the movie mix I think. I fitted Kappa Infinity components (yes separate tweeters) and a sub/filter plus connected to a 15” sub and Avatar next to it sounds better by miles to me for quality.
My pro has every decent mod, Redshift etc. It’s ok in a decent line but I don’t see what all the fuss is about but guess it’s the theme.

I have the fidelity’s with the original soundtrack, it’s awesome.
I went through all the pinbrowser stuff, went back to original, which is best IMO.

 

[J85M]

what game is TWD the same as? what game is Munsters the same as? what game is turtles the same as?

when Keith has done as many games as John lets see how he is doing!

TWD was Johns attempt at breaking his own mould, so that ones a given.

Take the Munsters lower playfield out and it’s the exact same basic fan layout orbit, ramp, target/shot, pops, target/shot,ramp orbit.

Ironically turtles at least the top 50% always reminded me of a tweaked Tron.

I have a lot of love for Borg my lineup used to be 80% Borg, he knows how to make fun games and was the master at making the pro feel close to the prem/LE. I’d just love to see him try and mix it up like he did with TWD, stick a flipper or ramp somewhere different.

 

[M4carp]

I have the fidelity’s with the original soundtrack, it’s awesome.
I went through all the pinbrowser stuff, went back to original, which is best IMO.

I was thinking that could be the issue, thanks for confirming

 

[Gonzo]

TWD was Johns attempt at breaking his own mould, so that ones a given.

Take the Munsters lower playfield out and it’s the exact same basic fan layout orbit, ramp, target/shot, pops, target/shot,ramp orbit.

Ironically turtles at least the top 50% always reminded me of a tweaked Tron.

I have a lot of love for Borg my lineup used to be 80% Borg, he knows how to make fun games and was the master at making the pro feel close to the prem/LE. I’d just love to see him try and mix it up like he did with TWD, stick a flipper or ramp somewhere different.

Stick a flipper in a scoop and a ramp under the node board

Sorted.

 

[Sako-TRG]

If I can understand the rules too then we have a winner.

Def agree.
It’s ok if you’ve had a pin a short while and your still familiarising yourself just bashing away…
But I’ve had my AC/DC Prem couple of years now and still really don’t know the rules
Watched your Chinwag with Matt ref AC/DC talking about how great it was, I need to learn it more as I feel I’m wasting a great pin.
Pinball it so much more fun when you know what the hell you’re doing throughout …lol

 

[CHRIS B PINBALLS]

sorry in my view Tron is a terrible game. It sells high because of rarity more than anything else.

Not sure it’s rare 500 Le as standard then
And they did 3 runs of the pro
More tron le came to the uk than the next 5 titles after that

 

[CHRIS B PINBALLS]

I liked Tron, but it would either drain like crazy and give you short games or you’d be at the wizard mode in no time.
The sound quality out of the box wasn’t great, purely down to sampling quality.
But it was a good pin to have in a line up as long you spent a shed load on mods etc

You been drinking tonight Tony wizard mode portal is a bitch to get to