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UKPinfest 2019 23rd, 24th, 25th August

Matt Vince said:
I'm not a lover of the need to create big prize pots by allowing unlimited entries, this isn't the norm in the UK but is very popular elsewhere so why not give it a go. (P.S. I think if the show is running at a loss then that should be the charity that is supported if any is) I honestly think the real issue with these formats is not that the best players buy their way in. It's that the lesser players are used to boost the cash pot for the better players because they spend more trying to qualify!

I look forward to the show and seeing how it all pans out.
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I think that's less of an issue with the 3 machine card system Matt, you have to be consistent across the card. Which means random elements are less likely.

There is no point me entering because I don't stand any chance of making the finals in this format.

Cheers,
Neil.
 
Quokka Man said:
This format does benefit those with deep pockets, and we all know the people who take it so seriously they will pay £50-100 to make sure they qualify(or even just to bump up their qualifying position). I'd be happier if some of the money went to Phil to make sure the show becomes profitable, or if some went to charity. Whereas I may have bought a weekend ticket before, I would probably only go one day based on this.
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I actually don't think that's the case. Getting three good scores across the card is harder than you might think. So folks might pay a lot but the better players will still get the better scores most likely on their first or second attempt. I could spend thousands and I just don't believe I'll get high enough scores consistently on the card.
 
mufcmufc said:
I'm baffled as to why people feel the need to vent about this, there is a competition being run which no one is forced to enter, other competitions are available at other venues which may suit your tastes.

If you don't want to pay to play in the comp - don't play in it
If the format isn't for you - don't play in it
If the comp is too expensive - don't play in it
If you think the comp is biased because people will win because they spend a lot of cash - don't play in it
If all of the above will ruin the show for you - don't attend the show
If you want a different comp - run your own
If you want to play in the UK Open, that's about a month before.
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If you don't want to pay to play in the comp - don't play in it( I won't be but the option was taken out of my hands)
If the format isn't for you - don't play in it (I won't be)
If the comp is too expensive - don't play in it (I won't be )
If you think the comp is biased because people will win because they spend a lot of cash - don't play in it ( good thinking batman I won't be)
If all of the above will ruin the show for you - don't attend the show ( so to make 4 peeps happy you rather lose 30 peeps from the show entries)
If you want a different comp - run your own ( will be doing that in a few weeks )
If you want to play in the UK Open, that's about a month before. (it might not be worth my time or fit my schedule to fly to the UK when that's on)
 
Sven Normansson said:
So the next time, when the call for Venues, organisers, league representatives etc is given, I expect you all to gladly volunteer.
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Not sure iv saw a thread or post asking for any of the above so point me in the right direction to it mate? I'm happy to be corrected
 
Wayne is the competition 100% TGP? Working through it - it looks like its only 72%? is that right?
 
I thought I was taking the **** and spamming attempts back in Manchester when it had this format, but in truth I only spent about 25 quid. Hearing that people are worried about much higher amounts of rebuys surprises me. Thought Neil had it right - I consider myself a very inconsistent player but I love tournament formats and being a tryhard, and even with a system like this I simply didn't need to dunk a life savings into it in order to get a tournament position.

I found the other ways to throw my cash towards the charity instead lol
 
Can I break the chain of negativity here and just thank those organising the comp for putting in the time and effort to do so. The format used was praised by pretty much everyone when tried 2 years ago at NLP. Remember Pinfest is called PINfest, not COMPfest. It’s an event for everyone.
And yes Shaun it would be great to have something classics related
 
windoesnot said:
Can I break the chain of negativity here and just thank those organising the comp for putting in the time and effort to do so. The format used was praised by pretty much everyone when tried 2 years ago at NLP. Remember Pinfest is called PINfest, not COMPfest. It’s an event for everyone.
And yes Shaun it would be great to have something classics related
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Yep, even the people with some of the most criticisms to make about the competition formats give extremely glowing reviews of the shows themselves. They're utterly wonderful events and I'd like to think the attention is given to the competition formats as much as it is because it would make the event 'perfect' as there's really not much else that could be improved. Well, more shops + games for sale but you can't buff those through discussion!
 
I think I now know why I prefer just trying to beat my own scores at home than lots of comps;)

Kudos though to anyone who organises anything:)

This is a fun, hobby, right??? o_O
 
I only asked if a comp was running again this year :)

on a positive note - booked into the hotel this time, left it too late last time. Looking forward to the event.
 
I don't agree that the best players will pay to win, the best players usually qualify from 1 or 2 entries. I think I hold the record for the most buy ins at this sort of tournament from NLP a couple of years ago and I still didn't qualify, so spending money on its own isn't a way to get you qualified.

Didn't mind buying in loads when it was for charity, wouldn't be as happy doing it to just raise the prize fund. I'll still enter because I like entering comps but I doubt I'll do well enough to qualify.

I would prefer to see a classics tournament as well because I usually do better in classics, but I know how much of a ballache it is to organise a comp, so I'm just grateful that people are taking the time out to arrange anything.
 
if someone wins having multiple entrys, can you let us know so that we can laugh at them ?

I think it should not be called a competition,

maybe fun pin multi joke,

or no point tourney,

sad players need help funarama

i am quite good at pinball and need a bit of cash bash

what was the point of that shi%^e

lets make competions a laughing stock get together

we all love tourney organsises so just accept any old crapathon
 
DanLewell said:
I don't agree that the best players will pay to win, the best players usually qualify from 1 or 2 entries. I think I hold the record for the most buy ins at this sort of tournament from NLP a couple of years ago and I still didn't qualify, so spending money on its own isn't a way to get you qualified.
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I've seen players who have already comfortably qualified shell out more money to play tables where their rivals have high scores to try to knock them out, or manipulate who they play in the next round. Obviously there are no guarantees and its just another strategical move by them, but lets not pretend that buy-ins don't encourage this behaviour.

There are so many formats and most are a lot of fun. Some people prefer it when the best players reach the finals all the time. I quite like the scenario where an underdog can defeat a Goliath in a one off, or best of 3 match. And yes, a big thank you to everyone who puts on the comps and the helpers.
 
i will be entering though to support this crazy hobby despite it being silly sometimes in my oppinion
 
Quokka Man said:
There are so many formats and most are a lot of fun. Some people prefer it when the best players reach the finals all the time. I quite like the scenario where an underdog can defeat a Goliath in a one off, or best of 3 match. And yes, a big thank you to everyone who puts on the comps and the helpers.
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I couldn't agree more. This is probably my least favourite format. Much prefer playing other people head to head. My kids quite often beat good players in a head to head, sometimes through them playing well, sometimes through the better players having a crap game. They love it when they beat @PUP or @Moonraker because they know its an achievement. They don't get the same sense of achievement from beating me because its too easy!!
 
Dan, bring the family down to the club on May 12th. The TIMSAT2 comp is lots of head2head games (There is also the London League on too). All comps are free, just pay to get in the club, which for you and the kids is £10 total!
 
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Matt Vince said:
Dan, bring the family down to the club on May 19th. The TIMSAT2 comp is lots of head2head games (There is also the London League on too). All comps are free, just pay to get in the club, which for you and the kids is £10 total!
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I thought it was the 12th May? Already pencilled in the diary. SWL on the Sat, then Sun at flipout.
 
Arv said:
It would be nice to have a dedicated Classics Competition too at pinfest, if you want someone to run it give me shout.
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fantastic idea that Arv .... I might even bring along a machine or 2 to help support the classics
 
DanLewell said:
I couldn't agree more. This is probably my least favourite format. Much prefer playing other people head to head. My kids quite often beat good players in a head to head, sometimes through them playing well, sometimes through the better players having a crap game. They love it when they beat @PUP or @Moonraker because they know its an achievement. They don't get the same sense of achievement from beating me because its too easy!!
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Even from a tournament 'tryhard' point of view, it's much more interesting to play head-to-head because it encourages the tactical thinking of making your own balance between 'safe shot' gameplay versus taking risky, but big payoff chances. Buy-in encourages high-risk shots during qualifier gameplay because the penalty for failing is the cost of a rebuy rather than the tournament.

But, ultimately, even with all things considered on the formats themselves, if there are a good few people that simply will not play in a re-buy format, then that should be considered as a strong negative. I'm not a points player, but surely the hardcore that love IFPA points would prefer the maximum number of players possible, as that increases the number of points available, especially if you place up near the top?

I do honestly think that we're missing the big problem with the rebuy format (well it was mentioned but seems to have dropped off) - it works in PAPA because it's in America, in a huge tournament and it also has divisions. That last bit - divisions - is the bit that is sorely lacking here. Realise that the complaint of worrying about 'a few elite players that will buy their way to a win' is only avoided with Pinburgh because players that don't want to go up against that, don't have to and can choose another division. That being said with the entry + re-buy costs as they are, there is merit to the idea of it literally being about who has the deepest pockets.

Personally I would rather drop the cash prize pots completely, keep the trophies only (or even forgo those entirely if we really have to - I'm all about the glory and trophies are all about glory, but they're not required) and then have low ticket + rebuy prices purely as a way of covering expenses, both for the tournament organisers and ultimately for Phil. I reckon that will solve MANY problems here without having to completely adjust the tournament format. I would also wager that a good few people that would have otherwised swerved the tournament, would be happy to burn some tickets just to contribute to the event (and not to huge prize pots.) I think the need to fund the cash pots is causing the headache here

I hope this is all resolved amicably. I love tournaments but I have to say I deeply dislike the drama that comes along with them. It shouldn't be this hard to get people on the same page...
 
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Was there no option on another room, there was that side room last year, and I guess the seminar room, couldn't someone enquire about a side room and run a H2H tournament from there? I have to admit, I much prefer H2H tournaments, which - with proper tournament software and a tournament director (it could be TD'd based on rounds, i.e. a different TD per round so that people can still drink and enjoy the show) would be amazing, I am confident it could be done.

I will have one entry to Wayne's tournament, fair play for setting it up and good luck to the winner, however what I absolutely loved last year was meeting 10 other great players, beating some, losing to others, but that sense of competition. Entries would feel just like playing on my own again and I can do that in my pinshed.

I don't want to come across negative in this post @Wayne J - I am sure you've put so much time and effort into this and believe it is the right way to do it. However, as a participant, it isn't personally what I would want from a competition.
 
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