UKPinfest 2019 23rd, 24th, 25th August

UKPinfest 2019 23rd, 24th, 25th August
Posted by Big Phil
Daventry Court Mercure
Friday, August 23, 2019 - 12:00 PM
Until: Sunday, August 25, 2019 - 01:00 PM
(Adjusted for timezone: Europe/London)

Upcoming dates
All times have been adjusted for the timezone: Europe/London

This event has expired and has no upcoming dates

ianw

Registered
Jul 6, 2012
2,025
1,602
113
Kingsbridge, Devon
www.mancaveinsurance.co.uk
Alias
cityexile
why such a low number of games in qualifying? any specificity on the games. EM/Classics/Modern or anything?

I think I'm out also, not sure about a format like that. Lets hope I qualify for the league!
Last year was a disaster, too many people trying to play too many games. Both myself and my son gave up trying to qualify, which was unlikely anyway 😁
 

Wizcat

Site Supporter
Sep 9, 2011
1,374
1,295
113
Lancashire
Alias
Paul G
It's a rebuy system, very similar to what we did at the NLP comp in Manchester 2017. Initial entry of £10, but then rebuys for £5.
I believe last year's Daventry comp was £15 for 7 qualifying games. So yes, this year if you spend £15 you only get 6 qualifying games. Blame Brexit ;)
 

Atlantis

Site Supporter
Apr 3, 2018
342
314
63
49
Ireland
It's a rebuy system, very similar to what we did at the NLP comp in Manchester 2017. Initial entry of £10, but then rebuys for £5.
I believe last year's Daventry comp was £15 for 7 qualifying games. So yes, this year if you spend £15 you only get 6 qualifying games. Blame Brexit ;)
It's not Brexit its pay to win system. even a bad player can have 1 awesome game out of 20 goes .still a pass for me and tbh I might sell my VIP tickets as this is not what I was looking for in pinball. your greed is affecting Phils show in my eyes but il chat the rest that was thinking of going before I make up my mind.
 

Poibug

Registered
Aug 10, 2011
3,064
1,699
113
48
flintshire
It's not Brexit its pay to win system. even a bad player can have 1 awesome game out of 20 goes .still a pass for me and tbh I might sell my VIP tickets as this is not what I was looking for in pinball. your greed is affecting Phils show in my eyes but il chat the rest that was thinking of going before I make up my mind.

How's it greed when all the pot goes back to the winners. No one is profiting from the comp mate

Not sure other comps in past that is true,but in this instance it's transpparent
 
Last edited:
OP
Big Phil

Big Phil

Site Supporter
Nov 24, 2011
2,338
2,176
113
51
County Durham
Alias
OTWBigPhil
It's not Brexit its pay to win system. even a bad player can have 1 awesome game out of 20 goes .still a pass for me and tbh I might sell my VIP tickets as this is not what I was looking for in pinball. your greed is affecting Phils show in my eyes but il chat the rest that was thinking of going before I make up my mind.
I don’t understand the greed comment as no money from the Comp is being kept by anyone. It’s all being given out.

Please don’t let this affect you attendance as I really need the support this year. As most people know, my ticket cost me £2.7k last year. I can’t lose that again this year.
 

Atlantis

Site Supporter
Apr 3, 2018
342
314
63
49
Ireland
How's it greed when all the pot goes back to the winners. No one is profiting from the comp mate
Its greed to build a major prize pool all the money may be going out but if some of the top players have bad games then all that has to be done is rebuy as much as they want so its pay to win mentality.
An example I could have 3 awesome games the top boys see the scores and keep rebuying till there ahead that's pay to win to me.
Plus last years comps were better split even though it did not work well having a round robin but some other formats as a few of us were going for classics only this year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mission65

Wayne J

Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2011
1,394
1,558
113
47
Walsall
Alias
WWJ
Thank you all for the wonderfully supportive comments. ;)

The 3 game ticket is exactly what was used at PAPA for many many successful years.
It means that a single good, or bad game, has less bearing than 3 solid games, thus the better players will more likely qualify.

EXACTLY the same qualifying format as the only previous unlimited competition at a major UK show (Manchester Expo 2 years ago), which had only positive reviews and comments, some from people who seem quick to knock this.

The hope is that 'better' players will be more likely to play multiple games to push for the bye past the 1st round, and also get practice on the games they may face further down the line.

I really don't understand the comment about "my greed" @Atlantis . (Or maybe this is just a personal attack because you didn't like the way the UK Final was ran last year and the confusion and delays caused by the format of the main comp?)
I am not taking a single penny from the comp. ALL ticket entries will go straight to the prize winners (with the exception of trophies, if I don't get a sponsor - but hopefully that will be sorted anyway. I haven't even approached anybody yet).
I have never taken any money from any show, never accepted payment for bringing machines to any show. I have once had my expenses for a 7.5 tonne truck when I brought 8 machines (and returned 12!), but that is it.
I will repeat, for the hard of stupid, ALL money from ticket entries gets paid out - simple as.
I don't think that can be said of previous competition organisers.

The competition will also not require anything like the commitment as last year, with regard to queueing or searching for your partner or waiting for a game to be free. All things taken into consideration before planning this format, from listening to peoples gripes from last year.

If people don't like the format of the competition, I can not force then to enter, but to say that you will not attend the show is slightly misguided following the complaints about the comp last year.
There will be any number of machines still on Free Play to play, likely including the most recent releases from all the main manufacturers, as well as unique boutique builds never seen before in this country. Seminars in the side rooms, as well as side comps all within easy reach of you hotel room, and a bar open most of the night.
So be honest, and dont blame a comp you have never seen the like of before in the UK as your reasoning for not coming.
 

Poibug

Registered
Aug 10, 2011
3,064
1,699
113
48
flintshire
Its greed to build a major prize pool all the money may be going out but if some of the top players have bad games then all that has to be done is rebuy as much as they want so its pay to win mentality.
An example I could have 3 awesome games the top boys see the scores and keep rebuying till there ahead that's pay to win to me.
Plus last years comps were better split even though it did not work well having a round robin but some other formats as a few of us were going for classics only this year.

Even if,as u call it is buy to win they will still end up on a final against better players, then lose?
 

Wayne J

Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2011
1,394
1,558
113
47
Walsall
Alias
WWJ
Happy to discuss this in person either at Electric Circus on Sunday when I run the comp (for nothing) or at any of the Midlands League meets (which I run for nothing) or at the NLP where I shall be taking a game for the 5th (6th?) year in a row (without excepting paymet), or at World Cup Revisited, or Christmas Cracker, or any of the other comps I shall be running in the future.

I'm always happy to listen to ideas, which I have implemented in future iterations of comps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pudsey pinball

Atlantis

Site Supporter
Apr 3, 2018
342
314
63
49
Ireland
Thank you all for the wonderfully supportive comments. ;)

The 3 game ticket is exactly what was used at PAPA for many many successful years.
It means that a single good, or bad game, has less bearing than 3 solid games, thus the better players will more likely qualify.

EXACTLY the same qualifying format as the only previous unlimited competition at a major UK show (Manchester Expo 2 years ago), which had only positive reviews and comments, some from people who seem quick to knock this.

The hope is that 'better' players will be more likely to play multiple games to push for the bye past the 1st round, and also get practice on the games they may face further down the line.

I really don't understand the comment about "my greed" @Atlantis . (Or maybe this is just a personal attack because you didn't like the way the UK Final was ran last year and the confusion and delays caused by the format of the main comp?)
I am not taking a single penny from the comp. ALL ticket entries will go straight to the prize winners (with the exception of trophies, if I don't get a sponsor - but hopefully that will be sorted anyway. I haven't even approached anybody yet).
I have never taken any money from any show, never accepted payment for bringing machines to any show. I have once had my expenses for a 7.5 tonne truck when I brought 8 machines (and returned 12!), but that is it.
I will repeat, for the hard of stupid, ALL money from ticket entries gets paid out - simple as.
I don't think that can be said of previous competition organisers.

The competition will also not require anything like the commitment as last year, with regard to queueing or searching for your partner or waiting for a game to be free. All things taken into consideration before planning this format, from listening to peoples gripes from last year.

If people don't like the format of the competition, I can not force then to enter, but to say that you will not attend the show is slightly misguided following the complaints about the comp last year.
There will be any number of machines still on Free Play to play, likely including the most recent releases from all the main manufacturers, as well as unique boutique builds never seen before in this country. Seminars in the side rooms, as well as side comps all within easy reach of you hotel room, and a bar open most of the night.
So be honest, and dont blame a comp you have never seen the like of before in the UK as your reasoning for not coming.
Ahh never knew it was you running it. I had thought it was Moonraker or wizcat or somebody else, so that explains it then. And no i have no personal attacks against you or anybody for that matter so why would you bring up I had a complaint in last years finals (bad tact my friend) but if you wanna open that can of worms I have a few pages saved somewhere on this pc about your sly dealing of those finals I was part off.

You bring up this and that about getting nothing tbh I don't think anybody gets anything or expects it myself included when I donated my machine free last year and still paid in so no need to bring up that your golden boy and all that, everybody the same.

You bring up Seminars you know would have liked to have seen some but comps were on same times or waiting around for 4 hrs for the ok to start finals kinda made me miss them.

I see u assume I'm stupid saying that all monies get given out, I'm not and knew all the monies were been given out but it suits the person with the most cash to spend as that's what you want the top players to do as u just said that
 

Wayne J

Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2011
1,394
1,558
113
47
Walsall
Alias
WWJ
Ahh never knew it was you running it. I had thought it was Moonraker or wizcat or somebody else, so that explains it then. And no i have no personal attacks against you or anybody for that matter so why would you bring up I had a complaint in last years finals (bad tact my friend) but if you wanna open that can of worms I have a few pages saved somewhere on this pc about your sly dealing of those finals I was part off.

You bring up this and that about getting nothing tbh I don't think anybody gets anything or expects it myself included when I donated my machine free last year and still paid in so no need to bring up that your golden boy and all that, everybody the same.

You bring up Seminars you know would have liked to have seen some but comps were on same times or waiting around for 4 hrs for the ok to start finals kinda made me miss them.

I see u assume I'm stupid saying that all monies get given out, I'm not and knew all the monies were been given out but it suits the person with the most cash to spend as that's what you want the top players to do as u just said that
If you think that nobody previously got paid, or that all prize money is regularly paid out, you would be mistaken.

You cannot "buy your way" in to the finals as you have to be good enough to actually string together 3 good games in a row, not just keep throwing money at it. Isn't it strange how the same people always figure near the top of all comps, whether that be in Europe, the UK, or the US, it's not the format, it's that they're the best players.
I have all the figures from the NLP comp, and of the 16 finalists, 3 of them qualified with only a single entry, yet there were others who had as many as 14 entries and didn't qualify. The best players on the day will make the finals, as it should be. If they choose to play more and try and finish higher that's there choice, but only their best entry will count anyway. The same as a large percentage of US comps, which seem to do just fine.
To attract players from all over Europe their needs to be a decent comp, and decent prize pot, this is that.

"The sly dealings of the final" :rofl::rofl: I have the complaint you sent as well, along with the emails and your refusal to speak direct with me. I'll happily share it, but dont think it would look too good. Plus here is not the place for that.
The issues with regard to the timing changes were all caused by the format of the UK Open, just one of the reasons why it's not being held at Pinfest this year.

I brought up the fact of money due to YOUR comment on "my greed". Nothing more.

I never called you stupid, have you not heard the phrase "for the hard of stupid before"?
However, you then say you thought it was wizcat or moonraker running the comp, despite it being me who posted the details and moonraker to ask questions and comment on the price?
 

Atlantis

Site Supporter
Apr 3, 2018
342
314
63
49
Ireland
If you think that nobody previously got paid, or that all prize money is regularly paid out, you would be mistaken.

You cannot "buy your way" in to the finals as you have to be good enough to actually string together 3 good games in a row, not just keep throwing money at it. Isn't it strange how the same people always figure near the top of all comps, whether that be in Europe, the UK, or the US, it's not the format, it's that they're the best players.
I have all the figures from the NLP comp, and of the 16 finalists, 3 of them qualified with only a single entry, yet there were others who had as many as 14 entries and didn't qualify. The best players on the day will make the finals, as it should be. If they choose to play more and try and finish higher that's there choice, but only their best entry will count anyway. The same as a large percentage of US comps, which seem to do just fine.
To attract players from all over Europe their needs to be a decent comp, and decent prize pot, this is that.

"The sly dealings of the final" :rofl::rofl: I have the complaint you sent as well, along with the emails and your refusal to speak direct with me. I'll happily share it, but dont think it would look too good. Plus here is not the place for that.
The issues with regard to the timing changes were all caused by the format of the UK Open, just one of the reasons why it's not being held at Pinfest this year.

I brought up the fact of money due to YOUR comment on "my greed". Nothing more.

I never called you stupid, have you not heard the phrase "for the hard of stupid before"?
However, you then say you thought it was wizcat or moonraker running the comp, despite it being me who posted the details and moonraker to ask questions and comment on the price?
I don't see what you post I have to log in with an alt account to read or get one of the others to send your quote to me as i have had u on ignore from last year, maybe thats, why i did not respond to your messages and the reason you are on ignore, is your anti-anybody that ain't British attitude
 

Neil McRae

Site Supporter
Jun 5, 2016
9,387
6,380
113
Surrey
playpinball.uk
Alias
Neil McRae
LOL PAPA!

PAPA would run several tournaments though Wayne, A,B classics 1 and 2 and A and B.

I’m thinking of bringing ten of my own games and doing something different now as that format in my view is terrible for the largest gathering of players in the UK. Nothing for juniors (?), nothing for noobs, women?


It’s a TGP fest for those that qualify, all the suckers that enter just for three games pad up the field for a healthy points at the end. It’s your comp Wayne and you can run it the way you like but this feels super unambitious to me and a bit disappointing that the opportunity to have the most players play each other is missed. Pinburgh doesn’t sell out in seconds for no reason.

Cheers
Neil.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Last edited:

Replay

Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2011
2,718
1,132
113
I don't mind this format but maybe a suggestion would be to give 10% of the pot to charity? Just a thought!
 

Wizcat

Site Supporter
Sep 9, 2011
1,374
1,295
113
Lancashire
Alias
Paul G
LOL PINBURGH

Anyone that took part in last year's comps will be aware of the cramped conditions that made even head to head play difficult. Four player games in that environment would be madness. Last year's comp also took a long time to get through those 10 (thanks for the correction Peter) games. So much so that a few of us (myself included) didn't actually finish the games.

This year's format tries to fix some of those issues with a format that you means your whole afternoon is only tied up on the comp if you want it to be. An electronic queuing system should also help make the area less cramped. If you don't like it - fair enough. See how it plays out this year and I'm sure feedback will help make the comp next year even better.
 

Quokka Man

Site Supporter
May 19, 2016
66
40
18
Cheshire
Alias
QuokkaMan
This format does benefit those with deep pockets, and we all know the people who take it so seriously they will pay £50-100 to make sure they qualify(or even just to bump up their qualifying position). I'd be happier if some of the money went to Phil to make sure the show becomes profitable, or if some went to charity. Whereas I may have bought a weekend ticket before, I would probably only go one day based on this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Paul R Owen

Matt Vince

Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2011
2,002
1,303
113
Sussex
www.londonpinball.co.uk
Hello all,

Firstly, I would like to thank Wayne and whom ever else is involved for putting themselves forward to organize the comp. Whatever your personal veiws are on the format, it is a big commitment to say you will effectively work all weekend for free instead of just enjoying the show!

Personally, I prefer a longer qualifying round but not all events can be the same and am happy to see how this works. Last year didn't go as planned as this format allows people to commit less time (at the same time) to competing if they don't want to. It also uses less machines, so thats 2 big complaints from last year rectified.

I'm not a lover of the need to create big prize pots by allowing unlimited entries, this isn't the norm in the UK but is very popular elsewhere so why not give it a go. (P.S. I think if the show is running at a loss then that should be the charity that is supported if any is) I honestly think the real issue with these formats is not that the best players buy their way in. It's that the lesser players are used to boost the cash pot for the better players because they spend more trying to qualify!

I look forward to the show and seeing how it all pans out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigIan and Wizcat

Atlantis

Site Supporter
Apr 3, 2018
342
314
63
49
Ireland
So I have had some time to sleep on it.
1/ The whole idea seems to be set up for a few elitist players to win the most amount of money.
2/ No respect shown to any other class of player as Neil said (male, female, juniors)good or bad.
3/ 0 funds being handed up to shows organisers that without whom there would be no venue for the event/comp anyways.
4/ I'm all for charity but if the show/event does not pay for itself this time I don't think Phil will do a 3rd and that's a shame as later today I will do a post on comparing TPF to Pinfest. But the event can do without helping charity till it is on its feet.
5/ I'm not in the camp of let's do what Neil says but credit where credit due last years stickball was best of any pinball comp I been in and would be inclined to take his offer of running a side comp with his 10 machines and would be more than happy putting my name in the hat for that, but no way am I going to buff the pool for someone else.
6/The cost of entry and rebuys is ridiculous more like 5 quid entry and 1 pound rebuy. you have priced yourselves out of it.

Ps , now that Wayne has said that I am personally attacking he was wrong I never knew he was running the show. but after last years Uk Finals I can say this he could not organise a ****-up in a brewery
 

mufcmufc

Staff member
Jul 21, 2011
1,842
1,441
113
Midlands
Alias
Nik
I'm baffled as to why people feel the need to vent about this, there is a competition being run which no one is forced to enter, other competitions are available at other venues which may suit your tastes.

If you don't want to pay to play in the comp - don't play in it
If the format isn't for you - don't play in it
If the comp is too expensive - don't play in it
If you think the comp is biased because people will win because they spend a lot of cash - don't play in it
If all of the above will ruin the show for you - don't attend the show
If you want a different comp - run your own
If you want to play in the UK Open, that's about a month before.
 

Arv

Beta Tester
Jul 21, 2011
2,405
1,340
113
Alias
.
Seeing how Phil made a loss on the previous Pinfest I think the surplus monies should goto him and not a charity. As someone pointed out earlier without Phil organising this there would be no competition. If you want money for charity run a dedicated stall for it on an old EM machine perhaps?
 

Quokka Man

Site Supporter
May 19, 2016
66
40
18
Cheshire
Alias
QuokkaMan
I'm baffled as to why people feel the need to vent about this, there is a competition being run which no one is forced to enter, other competitions are available at other venues which may suit your tastes.

If you don't want to pay to play in the comp - don't play in it
If the format isn't for you - don't play in it
If the comp is too expensive - don't play in it
If you think the comp is biased because people will win because they spend a lot of cash - don't play in it
If all of the above will ruin the show for you - don't attend the show
If you want a different comp - run your own
If you want to play in the UK Open, that's about a month before.
This isn't inclusive though and doesn't encourage the maximum amount of people to take part. If that affects attendance of the show then it affects Phil's bottom line.
 

ArrBee

Registered
Mar 7, 2018
64
37
18
Midlands ,ROI
I've no horse in this race. Didn't attend last year, will be attending this year.
I hate, hate, hate, political bollox in any situation so tend not to go there.

My view, for what it's worth - as very few know me, is that there is a pay to win element to it which has been somewhat minimized by the requirement to string 3 games together.
But, I think it can be minimized further....

Instead of your best score counting, it could be that your last score counts.
Then in true gambling style, you have a risk reward proposition to choosing an extra entry. As it stands there is zero risk, only cost.

Personally, my motivation is just to play some tables that I've not had the chance to, to have a (few) beers without having to drive home, and a few ****s and giggles. Oh, yeah and to get a lie in. :)
I'm not too fussed how competitions get organized, or even if they exist but what I have found is that the competitions that are focused on fun and inclusion are more enjoyable to me.
 

Wayne J

Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2011
1,394
1,558
113
47
Walsall
Alias
WWJ
Instead of your best score counting, it could be that your last score counts.
Then in true gambling style, you have a risk reward proposition to choosing an extra entry. As it stands there is zero risk, only cost.
I had thought about that as an option many years ago, but after discussion with many of the people who run the major comps in the US it was thought to be a bad idea, due to the fact that it would actively discourage people from playing more games and have people playing for 'safe' scores with their strategies rather than trying to go for an optimal score. It wouldn't make for particularly interesting viewing, as this will be being streamed live again.

There is a risk of playing again. For example, if you play the same 3 games you played previously, and better your scores on 2 of the games, but tank on the 3rd, it will likely lower the first ticket you have submitted. Not as big a risk as your suggestion, but still a risk.

This is not a new format plucked out of the air. It is not only a tried and trusted format, it is a format which allows players more freedom in when or how much they play, so they can focus on other things around the show - the single biggest issue which came from last years show.
 

Neil McRae

Site Supporter
Jun 5, 2016
9,387
6,380
113
Surrey
playpinball.uk
Alias
Neil McRae
I'm baffled as to why people feel the need to vent about this, there is a competition being run which no one is forced to enter, other competitions are available at other venues which may suit your tastes.

If you don't want to pay to play in the comp - don't play in it
If the format isn't for you - don't play in it
If the comp is too expensive - don't play in it
If you think the comp is biased because people will win because they spend a lot of cash - don't play in it
If all of the above will ruin the show for you - don't attend the show
If you want a different comp - run your own
If you want to play in the UK Open, that's about a month before.
Nick,
I agree with you but in my view we don't get a large number of players together all that often in the UK and I guess I'm disappointed by the outcome of us all being in the same room for three days is the most uninspiring competition format. I'm all for pay to play, just think doing this over 10 games with some requirement to play classics would make it more interesting.

Cheers,
Neil.