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The "C" Word

All politicians from all sides should be held to account.

If the public can’t trust mps etc to uphold their own standards then what hope is there of the public sticking to advise?

There is going to be a real battle to get parents to take their 4-5 year old kids back to school. In order to get this done they have to trust the advice they are given. Incidents like this ultimately undermine this trust. This isn’t fake anger. It’s people seeing politicians saying one thing and then not following through themselves.

Similarly if members of the cabinet try to justify not sending there own kids back whilst advocating others do so will undermine trust even further.

which members of the cabinet are saying they aren't sending their kids back to school?
 
It's here mate

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ovid-19-support-for-victims-of-domestic-abuse

"The household isolation instruction as a result of coronavirus does not apply if you need to leave your home to escape domestic abuse"


No dood, it's not - try again, thanks for playing! :D

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-with-possible-coronavirus-covid-19-infection

here is the section again for you:

"If you have children, keep following this advice to the best of your ability, however, we are aware that not all these measures will be possible."
 
Ah ok. I have kids so I can do whatever I want. So much clearer now. I'm sure this won't cause any confusion

Megabrain Cummings didn't plan for his own family getting ill, and his best idea was to bundle everyone into a car and drive across the country. Not to get someone from his family to come to him whilst he isolated. He's a moron
 
Those exception clauses were intended for victims of domestic abuse. For everyone else the guidance was clear. Self isolate in your own home. Even if your partner is unwell, as the case was here, you do your best to isolate. What you don't do is bundle everyone into a tight space, like a car, for a few hours.

This guy is meant to be the brains behind government policy. It's terrifying that these are the best excuses he could come up with.

The difference is the likelihood he would get ill himself after being in meetings where several people who had been there were already showing signs of Covid rather than only the risk of getting it from his partner - hence the big risk of them both being very unwell at the same time rather than one at a time.
 
no dood, often I've been on a long flight to the west coast of USA, or I'm jet lagged, or I'm on my way back from the 'ring or other track. I often feel fine but 30 mins in I feel shattered... I once ended up in a ditch near Houston because I thought I could drive 100 miles whilst ill.
during lockdown ?
 
during lockdown ?

nope, but let me put it this way dood:

you are your wife are likely getting the disease, you have a young kid, your best bet for someone from your family being able to look after them is 250miles away, or the risk is that if you are both end up in hosptal your kid ends up in some home or foster family you've no idea who they are. Or the ****ing guardian run a HE LEFT HIS KID ALONE AT HOME nonsense.

if my daughter was of that age, the only folks I would have to look after are a 500 mile trip to Edinburgh, and I'd get in the car and go WITHOUT batting an eyelid and I'd be doing it in the FULL knowledge that what I was doing was perfectly legal.
 
nope, but let me put it this way dood:

you are your wife are likely getting the disease, you have a young kid, your best bet for someone from your family being able to look after them is 250miles away, or the risk is that if you are both end up in hosptal your kid ends up in some home or foster family you've no idea who they are. Or the ****ing guardian run a HE LEFT HIS KID ALONE AT HOME nonsense.

if my daughter was of that age, the only folks I would have to look after are a 500 mile trip to Edinburgh, and I'd get in the car and go WITHOUT batting an eyelid and I'd be doing it in the FULL knowledge that what I was doing was perfectly legal.
This has nothing to do with driving on 12th April to test your eyesight not being essential travel
 
sadly that's not true either, there is a specific requirement on being able to see when driving obvs. :D :D :D
 
I never thought I’d get involved in a ‘political’ discussion on here (probably wished I hadn’t) so I thought I’d clarify my position.

As there seems to be some feeling that government no longer has to answer questions from people who don’t agree with them (campaigning newspapers = fake news) I will make full declaration I am a card holding member of the Labour Party. Don’t agree with everything every representative of them has ever said and done of course but I am a member and if you feel that means I am not allowed to have an opinion on this then stop reading now,

I also know people think I/we have it in for DC, but truth is I don’t know him as a person and if you want to make it a left v right type thing I’m not even convinced he’s a tory. So I’ll judge him on his actions as best I can .

I actually withdraw something I said earlier on here.

Neil said we have every right to be angry that they didn’t start the lockdown 2 weeks earlier (and of course he’s right) but I then said I was indeed angry about that.
Actually I’m not angry about that. With hindsight it should have happened, but I think we all respect hindsight has been an even more wonderful thing in this scenario than we ever imagined . I may have my own view on why they decided to delay but I would be completely guessing as to what advice they were receiving and on what basis the decision was made . So whilst I wish they had locked down earlier (because less people might have died) I’m not going to say I’m angry they didn’t . It’s done and these were decisions made in circumstances that none of us could imagine just how difficult they were.

Also I should say , as well as being a socialist , I’m a business owner and business adviser . I think what government has done to support businesses to then support their staff has been first class.

We are not all one eyed!

But the handling of this DC thing is not about hindsight . It’s about what people think now and how they will act in the future.
I have had a very difficult decision to make in relation to family matters during this crisis. Im happy to go into that if you want and only don’t do so as I know there will be many with worse situations

I observed the rules 100% even though my instinct was that to deal with my family issues would have been perfectly safe and reasonable

Because those were the rules..

Neil I’d like to say I respect your view that DC followed the rules (actually instructions I think they have been called as not all enforced in law hence the statements his actions were lawful are irrelevant ) but I can’t as he clearly didn’t . Why he couldn’t just apologise I’ll never know


The thing we should be most concerned at is just how important DC must be to this government . We all know how politics works . Usually he would have been yesterday’s news by now . So he must be really important to the functioning of this government .Despite what I have said I think generally people think they haven’t handled this particularly well (like I said it is an unenviable job) so maybe we ought to be worried that they need this chap so much just to deliver to that level

Because he is going to resign

I’ve listened today to the anger of people and I’m afraid they are not all left wing people showing ‘guardian fake anger’. They’re all sorts of people and that’s why he’ll go eventually imo

for what it’s worth !
 
I personally think this is more worrying....

View attachment 108934
And THIS is the reason the lockdown wasn't enforced as strongly as could have been earlier.
As was said at the time - people would only be able to self isolate/quarantine,/lock themselves away (however you want to phrase it) for a limited time before they broke the rules/instructions and started making reasons/excuses why they didn't have to comply.
I can also see how lucky (!) I am in having to go to work every day (even if it is in an ICU department in a hospital) as at least I get some social contact - rather than being stuck alone in my house.
 
This has nothing to do with driving on 12th April to test your eyesight not being essential travel

12th April is his wife's birthday too. But I'm sure that was just a coincidence. Much more believable that he'd want his family in the car with him to help test his eyesight whilst driving randomly towards a beauty spot.
 
My son has moved out as he is working on a Covid ward to earn some money as he just done 3 years at medical school and the local holiday resort bar job is no more.
He was in isolation last week while tests were being done, had the all clear. We were collecting his Morrison’s food order and leaving on the doorstep for him.
Luckily his girlfriends parents let them stay in a holiday let near Tenby free!!!
We are all being careful, shame on the idiots at the beaches etc. Let’s hope the second wave isn’t bad🙏
 
And THIS is the reason the lockdown wasn't enforced as strongly as could have been earlier.
As was said at the time - people would only be able to self isolate/quarantine,/lock themselves away (however you want to phrase it) for a limited time before they broke the rules/instructions and started making reasons/excuses why they didn't have to comply.
I can also see how lucky (!) I am in having to go to work every day (even if it is in an ICU department in a hospital) as at least I get some social contact - rather than being stuck alone in my house.
Hi Wayne
I’m sure it’s been said before on here but thanks for what you are doing , we know everyone in hospital and similar environments are taking more risk than the rest of us and we really do appreciate and understand this
 
Hi Wayne
I’m sure it’s been said before on here but thanks for what you are doing , we know everyone in hospital and similar environments are taking more risk than the rest of us and we really do appreciate and understand this
Fortunately, from my point of view, I'm not frontline dealing with patients, I'm responsible for the ordering and delivery of all equipment and instruments, although the majority of my time is currently spent in sourcing PPE.
I guarentee that the majority of people working in the NHS don't see themselves as heroes, they're just working and earning a living.
There are people in all walks of life currently working and putting themselves at more risk than those staying at home getting 80% of their wages.

An unpopular truth is that there are the same percentage of NHS workers who are skivers and making excuses for not going to work yet still claiming the accolades for being heroes - that is what REALLY pi$$e$ me off far more than anything else at the moment, including people breaking lockdown, governments handling of this, proce gouging from suppliers (e.g surgical gowns have risen in price from less than 50p to over £7.50).

Nothing like this, on this scale, has happened in living history and everyone is trying their best to deal with it how they think is best for them and their loved ones. Maybe everyone just needs to think about that and be a little more understanding and respectful of other peoples positions before spouting hatred and bile?

To quote Jerry Springer "Take care of yourself, and each other"
 
^^^^ Another one of my sons was hounding suppliers until he got promoted finding all sorts of goings on costing us money, it was like his own money. Good lad😂
He will go far😁 Now a senior lead data annalist at the NHS working from home 2 doors away from me, and gets the hump if I beat him on pinball☺️
 
It's here mate

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ovid-19-support-for-victims-of-domestic-abuse

"The household isolation instruction as a result of coronavirus does not apply if you need to leave your home to escape domestic abuse"
And THIS is the reason the lockdown wasn't enforced as strongly as could have been earlier.
As was said at the time - people would only be able to self isolate/quarantine,/lock themselves away (however you want to phrase it) for a limited time before they broke the rules/instructions and started making reasons/excuses why they didn't have to comply.
I can also see how lucky (!) I am in having to go to work every day (even if it is in an ICU department in a hospital) as at least I get some social contact - rather than being stuck alone in my house.


Ditto, I've been going to work the entire time, and agree with this point
 
Bonsoir
La presse française a beaucoup parlé de Votre Mr Cummings, certainement pour faire oublier Nos pitoyables hommes politique !!!! je vous encourage a regarder ce qui se passe chez nous ,vous allez être sidérés

Nous avons beaucoup de points communs:
Des plages bondés, des amateurs de foot stupides, un confinement trop tardif et pas respecté dans les banlieues ,pas de matériel et DES EXCUSES MINABLES pour toutes nos erreurs. etc...
Mais nous, nous avons des choses en plus:
de l'ARGENT MAGIQUE que notre président distribue des deux mains
des infirmières qui doivent tailler des blouses dans des sacs poubelles !!! des masques périmés depuis 2001!!!

Nous avons deux semaines d'avances sur vous dans le confinement et visiblement vous faites pareil que nous
Bon courage
victor
 
Translation

Good evening
The French press has talked a lot about Your Mr Cummings, certainly to make us forget Our pitiful politicians !!!! I encourage you to watch what is happening with us, you will be amazed

We have many points in common:
Crowded beaches, stupid football fans, too late and disrespectful confinement in the suburbs, no equipment and MOST APOLOGIES for all our mistakes. etc ...
But we have more things:
of MAGIC MONEY that our president distributes with both hands
nurses who have to cut gowns in garbage bags !!! masks expired since 2001 !!!

We are two weeks ahead of you in containment and obviously you are doing the same as we
Good luck
victor
 
Bonsoir
La presse française a beaucoup parlé de Votre Mr Cummings, certainement pour faire oublier Nos pitoyables hommes politique !!!! je vous encourage a regarder ce qui se passe chez nous ,vous allez être sidérés

Nous avons beaucoup de points communs:
Des plages bondés, des amateurs de foot stupides, un confinement trop tardif et pas respecté dans les banlieues ,pas de matériel et DES EXCUSES MINABLES pour toutes nos erreurs. etc...
Mais nous, nous avons des choses en plus:
de l'ARGENT MAGIQUE que notre président distribue des deux mains
des infirmières qui doivent tailler des blouses dans des sacs poubelles !!! des masques périmés depuis 2001!!!

Nous avons deux semaines d'avances sur vous dans le confinement et visiblement vous faites pareil que nous
Bon courage
victor
Good evening
The French press has talked a lot about Your Mr Cummings, certainly to make us forget Our pitiful politicians !!!! I encourage you to watch what is happening with us, you will be amazed

We have many points in common:
Crowded beaches, stupid football fans, too late and disrespectful confinement in the suburbs, no equipment and ABSOLUTE EXCUSES for all our mistakes. etc ...
But we have more things:
of MAGIC MONEY that our president distributes with both hands
nurses who have to cut gowns in garbage bags !!! masks expired since 2001 !!!

We are two weeks ahead of you in containment and obviously you are doing the same as we
Good luck
victor
 
There are people in all walks of life currently working and putting themselves at more risk than those staying at home getting 80% of their wages.

We have never been so busy... thats the irony of it all.. I spent all of last week in a large datacentre in Slough testing circuits and running fibres in for a big customer that is part of Critical National Infrastructure - And i'm an Ops Manager... And believe me - if you havent had the experience of wearing a mask for 12 hours a day then i can assure you it's a painful scary experience - I can only imagine what those on the front line have to go through... So all props to those men and women who do it daily!
 
I personally have driven a short distance to be sure I was fit to drive so I get that..

This is sensible. Undertaking a sixty mile round trip with your wife and young son in the car following two weeks of severe illness that resulted in eyesight problems, just to confirm you are safe to operate a vehicle isn’t sensible. If true, it endangered not only his family, who he was apparently acting to protect, but all other road users. This is the most problematic part of his explanation, and I can’t believe that no one asked why his wife, who by all accounts suffered much less severe symptoms, couldn’t drive back to London instead.

It also wasn’t sensible to park up at a local beauty spot at the half-way point of this apparently experimental journey and exit the vehicle to sit on the riverbank, when the govt advice specifically prohibited such activity. He wasn’t exercising, therefore this specific action was in breach of the guidance.

I agree that the published guidance did provide an exception that explains - and to a degree justifies - the relocation to Durham for self-isolation purposes. It does not explain, excuse or justify the above.

Also, the main point of the guidance re not relocating to second homes was to prevent community spread. Cummings stated today that a few days after both he and his wife became ill and relocated to Durham their son became ill - so his wife took him to the local A&E department. Whilst still suffering with Covid-19 symptoms herself. It isn’t a good look.

The biggest problem here though is the optics of the situation. People are angry, and they rightly or wrongly feel that this is a ‘do as we say, not as we do’ situation given that Boris is standing by Cummings. Yes, the caveat re young children was mentioned in the published guidance, but the core message that 99% of the population received was to self-isolate with symptoms at all cost, as this is how it was presented during the govt briefings. The sad reality is that many will use this situation as justification for breaking the current and future guidance, which is why he should go regardless - purely for the greater good by way of maintaining the perceived legitimacy of govt instruction. No SPAD is worth keeping at the cost of further lives being lost.
 
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