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Attitudes on the forum....

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I don’t think letting a newbie post a for sale ad is a bad thing. If this person is knowingly overpricing then they deserve what they get. They have to remember they are entering a forum where most of the people know what they are talking about and have seen and experienced the price changes over the years. Any regular here will start to see what stuff is worth, and what machines will hold a premium over others. The problem is when these newbies start to challenge the knowledge of the forum, and then the name calling starts.

eBay and Facebook are much more open selling environments and as such you will get people commenting on sales adverts. Go to a forum which has a much closer community and you would be short sighted to think you arent going to run into trouble.

People selling overpriced junk need to be pulled up where appropriate. If they can justify it then they will. If it’s an honest mistake then they will usually say. If they are just here to scam as much out of someone as they can then they have no value to a forum such as this and let them be judged
 
mark9 said:
Depends what you call abuse. The personal attacks came from the sellers, after they were informed that their machines were overpriced.

Commenting that your pin is overpriced is not abuse, it’s helpful to others to prevent people getting ripped off.
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ANYTHING in this world is what someone is prepared to pay for it! People pay £Millions for a bit of cloth with paint splashed on it by calling it Art! or how about paying for polished rocks called diamonds?? It is helpful when people advise others on price differences THAT ARE ADVERTISED ON HERE, however some on this forum are just plain childish rude and insulting which spoils it for the vast majority. If someone chooses advertise a turn in a box for £100 describing it honestly and someone buys it then it is up to them and no-one else's business (excuse the pun)
 
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Sako-TRG said:
There’s another thing I don’t think is cricket.
Advertising a pin as Mint when it clearly ain’t.
I think it’s unfair.
I know people have different interpretations of Mint but to me - Mint is supposed to be...well - Mint .......and shouldn’t have damaged cab etc.....unless this is pointed out in photos.
Just my 2 bobs worth.
Should there be a forum Sales Glossary to abide by? For example:
Fair ***Condition Descriptive***
Good “ “
Very Good “ “
Excellent “ “
Mint “ “
As New “ “
Brand New “ “
NIB “ “
This Site Supporters with relevant expertise could formulate the above for the sellers to abide by perhaps?
That way it will keep the expectation level realistic?
So when selling a Pin tag it with the appropriate condition header?
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I remember when there was only two types of grade's of machine's
A player's machine and a collector's machine !. A player's machine is a machine with playfield wear on them . If the wear was near the flippers or in the business area ,than theses machine wear deemed the lowest price of games , but if the wear was higher up or out of the eye line then the price. Would be higher , but still a player's machine .The cab condition did not come into it as it was a player's machine anyway ,so price accordingly .
A collector's condition machine was very different as the playfield had to be perfect including the plastics and only maked down on the condition of the cab . All this has changed now as some titles you can now buy new plastic and cab decals . There is a new kid on the block now and that is a refurbished machine , which creates more problems IMO . To me a refurbished machine should have NO playfield wear No plastics missing or damaged ,All worn mechanical parts replaced / coils / switch's etc and New decals .
 
AndyB53 said:
It is helpful when people advise others on price differences THAT ARE ADVERTISED ON HERE, however some on this forum are just plain childish rude and insulting which spoils it for the vast majority.
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Since when have forums been restricted to only commenting on forum based matters?

Ebay and and gumtree shouldn't be safe havens for scammy sellers just because they don't have any comment functionality.

And yes, a seller has and always will have the right to charge what they want. But they have to be prepared for people to laugh in their face when they tell people that their polished quartz rock is being sold for diamond prices.
 
stumblor said:
Since when have forums been restricted to only commenting on forum based matters?

Ebay and and gumtree shouldn't be safe havens for scammy sellers just because they don't have any comment functionality.

And yes, a seller has and always will have the right to charge what they want. But they have to be prepared for people to laugh in their face when they tell people that their polished quartz rock is being sold for diamond prices.
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My point is that you can ask what you like for something If you get it, fine but there is a big difference between constructive criticism and just plain rudeness. a few people on here choose to make snide comments without any justification or cause. You Mention "scammy sellers" How exactly is someone "scamming" if they honestly advertise an item, ask a price (no matter how high or low) and sell the said item? Who EXACTLY is being "scammed" as you put it? I actually know of a person who 24ct gold plates the INSIDE of certain pinballs and sells them for £20k+ to businessmen and companies. Is he scamming them of just maximizing his potential?
 
Scammy sellers. Like our mate who was trying to sell 3 x 1k machines for 7.5k that in all likelihood he didn't even own. The reason this thread was kicked off.

I understand you have beef with certain people but it ain't always about that.
 
I think most people on here would be quite aware that those 3 pins are not worth 7k without you having to remind them stumbler
Not a scam really just over priced and he was selling on a commission basis
There are plenty of tools out there to see what the correct prices are on any machines and the buyer should do there home work to a certain degree you wouldn’t just buy the first used car you saw would you
You would research a few before making a decision
You wouldn’t go in to m and s and say I can buy your apple s quarter of the price at Lidl
 
AndyB53 said:
My point is that you can ask what you like for something If you get it, fine but there is a big difference between constructive criticism and just plain rudeness. a few people on here choose to make snide comments without any justification or cause. You Mention "scammy sellers" How exactly is someone "scamming" if they honestly advertise an item, ask a price (no matter how high or low) and sell the said item? Who EXACTLY is being "scammed" as you put it? I actually know of a person who 24ct gold plates the INSIDE of certain pinballs and sells them for £20k+ to businessmen and companies. Is he scamming them of just maximizing his potential?
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I don’t think anyone thinks you are a scammer Andy and you are entitled to list the Getaway at what ever price you like but one thing that stood out to me as that you say it was complete for ex amount but you list on e bay saying that you have spent about 1k more on it so something smells fishy
And things like best in the uk and super mint huo are best avoided unless you have things to back it up with I find good pics and 100% honesty is the best way to go
 
CHRIS B PINBALLS said:
I think most people on here would be quite aware that those 3 pins are not worth 7k without you having to remind them stumbler
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Just an example Chris I wouldn't presume to imply that I know more about pricing or anything else pinball related for matter than anyone else. Its been demonstrated numerous times that I don't.

My point is why shouldnt people be called out for it? If its out of a sense of politeness I don't really get it.
 
CHRIS B PINBALLS said:
I think most people on here would be quite aware that those 3 pins are not worth 7k without you having to remind them stumbler
Not a scam really just over priced and he was selling on a commission basis
There are plenty of tools out there to see what the correct prices are on any machines and the buyer should do there home work to a certain degree you wouldn’t just buy the first used car you saw would you
You would research a few before making a decision
You wouldn’t go in to m and s and say I can buy your apple s quarter of the price at Lidl
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Spot on!
CHRIS B PINBALLS said:
I don’t think anyone thinks you are a scammer Andy and you are entitled to list the Getaway at what ever price you like but one thing that stood out to me as that you say it was complete for ex amount but you list on e bay saying that you have spent about 1k more on it so something smells fishy
And things like best in the uk and super mint huo are best avoided unless you have things to back it up with I find good pics and 100% honesty is the best way to go
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I actually was not talking about my sales but the marketplace in general that being said I did not itemise all the money I spent on the machine indeed the Chroming cost me £700 alone. I can and did back up my claims. Indeed I have now taken a £300 non refundable deposit for the machine for the full asking price. Lucky? Maybe maybe not. I can only tell you that that particular machine was like new inside and out. As for pictures. I took over 60 pics of that machine from every conceivable angle but eBay only allow 10 the rest I sent to the buyer in Ireland. Yes this forum is a great place to dicuss pinball etc and if people put their machines up on here they have to accept the "flak" But as someone else pointed out. You can buy a apple in Harrods for £5 Waitrose £1 and Lidl 50p for the same apple just different presentation.
 
Paul said:
Problem as i see it is that We would all have an idea. Someone who wants to get into the hobby wouldn't, and would get royally fleeced.
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Was going to write something but hit the nail on the head👍
 
Paul said:
Problem as i see it is that We would all have an idea. Someone who wants to get into the hobby wouldn't, and would get royally fleeced.
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Throw into the mix that what reference point would a newbie use for pricing? HLD, EBAY, Facebook.......terrifying thought with some of the overpriced junk on eBay..... A few years back someone came onto the site who had paid something like 5k for an NBA fast break tying to recoup some of the money they had spent. They realised they had overpaid by probably three times as much.....wasn’t a happy story to read. Surely as a forum we should encourage people into the hobby and help guide them. Otherwise we are no better than those people who are overcharging and sit back and let it happen.
If @AndyB53 machine is overpriced then he has to accept he is on a forum where people will call him out. If he can defend it, then good on him. In reality, he is just doing what @CHRIS B PINBALLS is doing. However, Chris B is a long termer on here and he is probably a little more politically savvy as to how this forum works. He also is in this for the long term, so isn’t about to sh!t on his own doorstep. His point about wording is spot on though. If you are exaggerating, stretching the truth, then expect to defend it. It’s the same coin, just different sides of people doing business, some better than others.
 
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Anton said:
Throw into the mix that what reference point would a newbie use for pricing? HLD, EBAY, Facebook.......terrifying thought with some of the overpriced junk on eBay..... A few years back someone came onto the site who had paid something like 5k for an NBA fast break tying to recoup some of the money they had spent. They realised they had overpaid by probably three times as much.....wasn’t a happy story to read. Surely as a forum we should encourage people into the hobby and help guide them. Otherwise we are no better than those people who are overcharging and sit back and let it happen.
If @AndyB53 machine is overpriced then he has to accept he is on a forum where people will call him out. If he can defend it, then good on him. In reality, he is just doing what @CHRIS B PINBALLS is doing. However, Chris B is a long termer on here and he is probably a little more politically savvy as to how this forum works. He also is in this for the long term, so isn’t about to sh!t on his own doorstep. His point about wording is spot on though. If you are exaggerating, stretching the truth, then expect to defend it. It’s the same coin, just different sides of people doing business, some better than others.
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Not too sure how the price of the machine I have just sold, (for the asking price), has come into this? I think the facts speak for themselves. You are right. If you put a price on anything to sell you either have to defend that price or reduce it. Anyone who is selling should either "put up or shut up" My only point is that some of the comments on here (and I am not talking about my sales) are just plain rude! Someone is not a scammer just because they ask a high price. Another saying I got from my Grandad... "if you dont ask, you dont get"
 
AndyB53 said:
Not too sure how the price of the machine I have just sold, (for the asking price), has come into this? I think the facts speak for themselves. You are right. If you put a price on anything to sell you either have to defend that price or reduce it. Anyone who is selling should either "put up or shut up" My only point is that some of the comments on here (and I am not talking about my sales) are just plain rude! Someone is not a scammer just because they ask a high price. Another saying I got from my Grandad... "if you dont ask, you dont get"
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Sadly there can be a few over exuberant people on here and tact can sometimes pass them by!
 
There’s a flip side to this...... I don’t like people getting stung but.....
Without being too harsh, you have to exude some aptitude to know whether you are getting a good deal or not......regarding pricing and condition.
If you don’t research what your buying then you have to accept some blame too I guess.
 
If you're not aware of this forum, then research would involve googling pinball machines for sale and finding prices from HLD, Liberty Games etc and of course ebay. It's an easy trap to fall into thinking these prices are the norm and I don't think people should be penalised for falling for it.

As for it not being a scam if the buyer agrees on the price, I don't agree. The same thing happens with door to door salesmen scamming old people. Just because people are naive doesn't mean it's ok to take advantage of them.
 
mark9 said:
If you're not aware of this forum, then research would involve googling pinball machines for sale and finding prices from HLD, Liberty Games etc and of course ebay. It's an easy trap to fall into thinking these prices are the norm and I don't think people should be penalised for falling for it.

As for it not being a scam if the buyer agrees on the price, I don't agree. The same thing happens with door to door salesmen scamming old people. Just because people are naive doesn't mean it's ok to take advantage of them.
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The analogy you use Mark is not valid. If you openly advertise something, you accurately describe it (faults (if any) included) and a person already knowing the price COMES TO YOU, sees and tries the item and then buys it. How on earth is that a scam? I buy pins and on occasion have had some great purchases at giveaway prices. Are you seriously suggesting that because I bought sometime cheaply then I should sell it for less? Provided the buyer knows what he is buying, any agreed price is between the seller and buyer surely?
 
Well 2 people bid high on an Elvis that just sold on EBay , went for £6400 and losing bidder went £6300!
I guess there will always be people who will pay high prices, I’ve done it myself for super mint restores.
 
AndyB53 said:
The analogy you use Mark is not valid. If you openly advertise something, you accurately describe it (faults (if any) included) and a person already knowing the price COMES TO YOU, sees and tries the item and then buys it. How on earth is that a scam? I buy pins and on occasion have had some great purchases at giveaway prices. Are you seriously suggesting that because I bought sometime cheaply then I should sell it for less? Provided the buyer knows what he is buying, any agreed price is between the seller and buyer surely?
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Maybe scam was the wrong word to use, I guess “rip off” would be more appropriate.

When did I suggest you should pins for less than you bought them for? I’m not even saying that people shouldn’t be allowed to list pins for ridiculously high prices, just that newbies should be warned when about to get stung, rather than them suffering huge losses when they are forced to sell on at a realistic price.
 
mark9 said:
Maybe scam was the wrong word to use, I guess “rip off” would be more appropriate.

When did I suggest you should pins for less than you bought them for? I’m not even saying that people shouldn’t be allowed to list pins for ridiculously high prices, just that newbies should be warned when about to get stung, rather than them suffering huge losses when they are forced to sell on at a realistic price.
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I wasnt having a "pop" at you at all! Yes I think it is a good idea to advise newbies but buying and selling pins is about the same as with cars. You have to know what you are doing. There are some cheap pins on eBay at the moment I would not touch. Sadly in a free market people will always pay over the odds for things Buyer Beware .Cavet Emptor
 
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Can a price list be made available for pinball machines?
Or a history tab of recently completed sales of certain pins with prices listed as the for sale section mentions item sold but not always a price in the description.
I being a newbie would like to know the going rate for said pins before I make my 1st purchase and if that can’t be done I appreciate the help of fellow members to say if a pin is good value for money.

And one last thing I use eBay a lot before I even got into pinball! I used to search for pins and I genuinely thought the pins on there reflected the true price of pins, maybe slightly inflated because of ebays charges.
Once I really got into the hobby and met real pinball players and joined forums I learnt that most of the those machines on eBay are way overpriced.
Forums are the way to go, genuine pinball hero’s keeping this pinball life for years to come and years gone by.
 
B3zza said:
Can a price list be made available for pinball machines?
Or a history tab of recently completed sales of certain pins with prices listed as the for sale section mentions item sold but not always a price in the description.
I being a newbie would like to know the going rate for said pins before I make my 1st purchase and if that can’t be done I appreciate the help of fellow members to say if a pin is good value for money.

And one last thing I use eBay a lot before I even got into pinball! I used to search for pins and I genuinely thought the pins on there reflected the true price of pins, maybe slightly inflated because of ebays charges.
Once I really got into the hobby and met real pinball players and joined forums I learnt that most of the those machines on eBay are way overpriced.
Forums are the way to go, genuine pinball hero’s keeping this pinball life for years to come and years gone by.
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If you have a machine in mind ask on here first ! And we will all give you a guide price :thumbs:
And welcome to the fourm !!
 
Not all pins on EBay are way over priced, I have had some good deals. But some are chancers let’s say!
 
If I see something thats clearly ripping someone off, i’m going to say something. The site is a community and the community looks out for each other. That’s why I agree with the poster above about not letting new members do any trades for a fixed period of time and a number of posts.

Cheers,
Neil.
 
Interesting thread this.

Personally I believe in freedom of speech and if someone wants to sell a TZ for 50k so be it. Is that price gouging? Market forces?So what. it really is up to the buyer to make the decision. That buyer may be happy with the purchase.The mention of banning rubs against the grain.

Let me pose a question to others here.Have you purchased a machine from someone well below its value and raved on about the bargain you got? Is that not reverse price gouging? Why didn't you say to the seller here mate your machine is too cheap i will pay you more. for it?
 
I’ve posted on a few occasions when someone is selling below the value of the game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Neil McRae said:
I’ve posted on a few occasions when someone is selling below the value of the game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Posted to the seller or the forum?

And I wonder if the seller was criticised like someone selling over the market?
 
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