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The Ukraine thing

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dave said:
No, because you are clueless about any of it and it's false rage bought on through the programming. Soon as you can admit you're brainwashed then you can break free.
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Ukraine's level of corruption doesn't really have much impact on whether it was morally right of Russia to invade, outside of it's own reality of course. It's possible to be corrupt as hell, and yet not morally free game to be invaded by anyone that feels like they could run your country better for whatever reason. I struggle to see why that idea is too complex to believe that a real person could hold that idea.

Beyond that, you went wildly off topic and started telling me what various projected behaviours I have, say what I'm really thinking. No other explanations possible, you're pre-written them all for me, of course, and defeated them in advance.

Is there any actual need for me to contribute when you do that?
 
PBrookfield said:
Beyond that, you went wildly off topic and started telling me what various projected behaviours I have, say what I'm really thinking. No other explanations possible, you're pre-written them all for me, of course, and defeated them in advance.
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It's not off-topic at all, the propaganda to whip you into a frenzy is the same as the last two years.
 
So what you're trying to say is, Ukraine deserves it?
Or that it's all fake?
 
Nato is a pretext. If he takes Ukraine, he's still going to be surrounded by Nato. He wanted control of the resources and to boost his poll numbers at home. The first he'll probably pull off, the second looks like it's backfired massively.

As for being brainwashed, well yeah, we live in the age of alternate facts don't we. Of course both sides are going to roll out the information warfare. I'm not sure how that makes us all sheep? I hate Putin and everything he stands for, and I hope he gets a royal kicking. I'm just infinitely sad for all the people on the ground who are just trying to keep their families safe.
 
I just think the truth as ever is somewhere in the middle.

Putin has massively overstepped the mark though and he is a dangerous lunatic.

The people of Ukraine are the victims in all of this and I can only imagine what it must be like to be separated from one's family, instructed to pick up a gun and face a tank.

Just because the media are showing a slightly one-sided version of what led to the conflict doesn't make it anymore palatable. The moment a country is invaded and peoples homes get bombed it renders the mitigation insignificant.

It's clear that the EU would like to control Ukraine just as Russia would. However the Ukrainian people seem to have made their choice and that's really what counts.

The West aren't squeaky clean, far from it. This isn't the peaceful Hobbits of the Shire facing off against the Evil of Sauron. It's unlikely that everything we are told is the 100% truth. However is there a massive conspiracy where Putin is justified? No.

It's highly likely that Biden has motives, Von der Leyan has motives and Putin is the same. I've never really understood how folk get so evangelical and partisan for certain politicians or parties. It's almost always the civilians who suffer whilst the political classes feather their nests.

But people are dying now, families are being forced to leave their homes because one of the protagonists has started at war. And as much as he might have been prodded or goaded there really is no excuse. It's terrifying.
 
I'm not going to get into who's "right" or "wrong" (it's never completely black and white) in this current situation, or the way it is being differently reported by the media on both sides, although as @Big Phil mentioned earlier, it's worth watching RT channel (Sky channel 511) for a while to see how it's being reported on the Russian side.

The whole thing is a tragedy for all the ordinary people caught up in what's going on, and will have long lasting effects for many, many people both in Ukraine and elsewhere.

The reason for my post is that I'd highly recommend watching this 30 minute video which gives a factual explanation of why Ukraine is so important to Russia, which may give some insight as to at least some of Putin's motives for what he's doing. I certainly found it extremely interesting/informative:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If61baWF4GE
 
Calimori said:
Dave. Your calling people lazy, clueless, asleep because they have a different view to you.
With how bias, propaganda, misinformation and disinformation works, how can you be so sure you are right?
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Just leave him be, mate. Once someone has decided they've made up their mind like that, and have begun sorting people into neat groups, it's too much free labour to just up and give to some person online because they demand it of you.

Unfortunately there's hundreds of thousands more people the same way, all asking for the same work for you to come to them - not for them to come to you in even a small way.

Life is too short for it.
 
C&C said:
I'm not going to get into who's "right" or "wrong" (it's never completely black and white) in this current situation, or the way it is being differently reported by the media on both sides, although as @Big Phil mentioned earlier, it's worth watching RT channel (Sky channel 511) for a while to see how it's being reported on the Russian side.

The whole thing is a tragedy for all the ordinary people caught up in what's going on, and will have long lasting effects for many, many people both in Ukraine and elsewhere.

The reason for my post is that I'd highly recommend watching this 30 minute video which gives a factual explanation of why Ukraine is so important to Russia, which may give some insight as to at least some of Putin's motives for what he's doing. I certainly found it extremely interesting/informative:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If61baWF4GE
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Very good recommendation to keep an eye on RT lately, and I would further add that you should also consider reading Pravda.ru every now and then, also: English version of Pravda's site

And yes that video is bang on for summarising Russia's current position. From there you can start looking at it again from the US perspective, and then Russia's perspective; see where the differences lie.

Do it, and do it properly, with an open mind - you'll see there's not a *terrible* amount of difference. No grand conspiracy. Just a load of messy humans, some more, some less morally concerned than others (on both sides) all making a mess, muddling through **** day to day.
 
C&C said:
I'm not going to get into who's "right" or "wrong" (it's never completely black and white) in this current situation, or the way it is being differently reported by the media on both sides, although as @Big Phil mentioned earlier, it's worth watching RT channel (Sky channel 511) for a while to see how it's being reported on the Russian side.

The whole thing is a tragedy for all the ordinary people caught up in what's going on, and will have long lasting effects for many, many people both in Ukraine and elsewhere.

The reason for my post is that I'd highly recommend watching this 30 minute video which gives a factual explanation of why Ukraine is so important to Russia, which may give some insight as to at least some of Putin's motives for what he's doing. I certainly found it extremely interesting/informative:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If61baWF4GE
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Great video!
 
dave said:
I still see people outside with a mask on in a trance. 99.9% recovery rate and you're outside with a mask on? This is what they do to people, they lie to create fear, they stoke you up all day / night so you react like you have.
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Someone doesn't quite understand simple statistics.

There is simply not a 99.9% recovery rate.

I derive these figures not from "media propaganda" but from cold hard figures of infections and deaths. All this has already been discussed in depth time and time again.

But once you go down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories you don't believe anything and see conspiracies everywhere.

Best upgrade your tin hat.
 
PBrookfield said:
Very good recommendation to keep an eye on RT lately, and I would further add that you should also consider reading Pravda.ru every now and then, also: English version of Pravda's site
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RT channel has just been taken off air by Sky (and I assume Freeview, Virgin etc..) as per the EU decision.

I don't think this is a good decision at all.

Firstly, it provided an interesting insight into what was being fed to the Russian public, but most importantly it's the type of censorship that dodgy regimes like Putin's use.

I thought that whilst we may not agree with the rubbish that some people/organisations may say, we would always look to protect their right/ability to say it?
 
What is the real reason behind Roman Abramovich selling Chelsea and all his London properties? Is it just the sanctions or does he know something about what his close friend Putin might be planning 🥺
 
Andypc said:
What is the real reason behind Roman Abramovich selling Chelsea and all his London properties? Is it just the sanctions or does he know something about what his close friend Putin might be planning 🥺
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I don't understand how he's allowed to sell them!?! Sanctioning and seizing assets under the proceeds of crime act is what's supposed to be happening....not a "Hey I think you should maybe sell up, pocket a few billion, give some to victims of war in Ukraine (whichever side that means?)"
 
Unusually, the company structure for Chelsea FC appears to be simple. It is owned by a UK company, Fordstam Ltd, that appears solely owned by Abramovich and not an overseas entity. That might explain his urgency in making an offer to sell for charitable causes.

The super rich can set up legal and complicated ownership structures that reduce their tax. Changing the law on these would have a greater impact than this government have previously want to take. It would harm a few in power and their major donors.
Oddly, Ambramovitch chose to not do this with Chelsea.
 
I assume you mean the Criminal Financial Act. But his wealth isn’t unexplained, not saying he is clean but his business history is well documented, so I don’t think that act can be used. He has owned Chelsea for 19 years, it would be hard for them to use it in this situation.
 
Calimori said:
I assume you mean the Criminal Financial Act. But his wealth isn’t unexplained, not saying he is clean but his business history is well documented, so I don’t think that act can be used. He has owned Chelsea for 19 years, it would be hard for them to use it in this situation.
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Yeah it doesn't look like they can link his money to Putin unfortunately so just wishful thinking. To be honest I think there should be some sort of laws limiting how much wealth a person can have in this world. It's obscene.
 
Wayne J said:
Someone doesn't quite understand simple statistics.

There is simply not a 99.9% recovery rate.

I derive these figures not from "media propaganda" but from cold hard figures of infections and deaths. All this has already been discussed in depth time and time again.

But once you go down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories you don't believe anything and see conspiracies everywhere.

Best upgrade your tin hat.
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What I'd like to know is, what the hell has Steven Seagal been up to while this scary sht show has been unfolding?
A close friend of mine is also an anti-vaxer (nearly fell out over it, but we just agreed not to discuss it, as I value his friendship) and he tells me that Seagal's apparent friendship with Putin is actually a genius move by the U.S to get Seagal close to Putin so that when the time is right, he can bump him off*, thus creating Under Seige 3 in real-time, the greatest movie ever, with the bonus knock-on effect of revitalising the U.S cinema industry.

He also maintains that Bruce Lee remains alive and well, working under cover for the Hong Kong Police. Please confirm.

*also see my namesake Dennis Rodman
 
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