What's new
Pinball info

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The Ukraine thing

Status
Not open for further replies.
Rob zombie

Rob zombie

Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 30, 2018
Messages
2,409
Location
Conwy
Interested to hear what other people's thoughts are on this. What going to happen? How much can we believe? I work for a company that has employees in both the Ukraine and Russia, Romania, Poland, Spain, Italy etc and quite frankly it's suddenly become uncomfortable. People in the Ukraine can't work because they're running for cover. People in Russia can't face work colleagues as they're so ashamed. It's really crazy.
 
It's a sad and horrific time. Didn't think I would see countries grabbing for land mass in my lifetime.

I fear it won't stop at Ukraine.

It won't be long until Kiev has fallen. If NATO intervenes it's WW3.

China will be watching closely. I imagine Taiwan will be next.
 
Nato can't and won't intervene unless it's on their territory, otherwise they're committing war crimes. So that's not going to happen. Officially anyway. SAS might go in though.
 
Rob zombie said:
Nato can't and won't intervene unless it's on their territory, otherwise they're committing war crimes. So that's not going to happen. Officially anyway. SAS might go in though.
Click to expand...
They can if invoke article 5 for cyberattack, my thoughts on that exactly is they'd be stupid too. If you watch Putin with correct subtitles then you hear that side of it at least.

A couple of things I pulled from that is "get involved and you'll know it like never before", "The Empire of Lies" as he phrased against the US and bought up iraq, libya.

MSM , NATO + Govs calling an invasion, Putin calling it a liberation to de-nazify. NATO have been poking them for a while, I'm not calling for it but it was bound to happen, especially when you have a dementia patient in the WH.
 
Look back at the Cuban missile crisis. Yanks weren’t happy with what happened there!
Now Ukraine trying to become part of NATO and will most likely have been given all sorts of deals by US government.
Can see why Russia is ****ed off to a certain extent.
Yanks will be placing all sorts of surveillance/ listening posts around Ukraine border if that happened.
The Russian Federal Security Service will be privy to more than any of us know.
Probably left Putin little option.
Still, what a sh^t storm.
 
It's heartbreaking to see mothers and daughters saying goodbye to fathers and husbands as they have weapons handed to them.

The thought of untrained civilians facing tanks is incredibly sobering.

The phrase 'sovereign nation'seems to be readily used by both sides. I get the impression that the net result will be either Moscow or Brussels wielding ultimate power with very little sovereignty for the country.

The Ukrainian people are the innocents in all of this. But when I listen to Putin & Von der Leyen with her war mongering and talk of an EU Federal army I just see different cheeks of the same ar$e.

Trump is a massive twat but he did at least have a relationship with Russia & N'Korea. He understood that one of Putins 'red lines' was no Nato troops in Ukraine.

I don't know anything about Biden but I do wonder how much resentment is harbored due to Russia tinkering with US elections.

Regardless of the above Putin is a war criminal now and a very dangerous bloke.
 
Classic Blair and getting away with that chilcot report, he's war criminal and still lapping it up, there's never any real justice.

Ukraine are negotiating so it could be sorted by the morning.

Bushes Iraq Vs Putin covers.

economist.jpg
 
Little doubt in my mind that Russia will take Ukraine.
The big question is : what happens next?
Will the success encourage putin to do more? Or will a NATO threat be sufficient?
But I have sympathy with the post that said that the actions of Russia can be understood, if not justified. The west was already at Russia's door on most front. And that put them on the backfoot. So they decided to attack.
As others have said, very sobering. What would you do if it was your country?
 
Last edited:
It's possible that Russia did have genuine security concerns, but lets be honest, nobody was EVER going to attack Russia. Russia is constantly testing other countries reaction times and being provocative however. I remember when I lived in Sweden they were terrified of constant threats from Russia and they spent a whole week trying to trace a nuclear submarine they believed was right in the middle of Stockholm.
 
Oh great, and now this morning they're making threats to Sweden and Finland of the consequences of joining Nato.
 
At 56 years my biggest amazement is how naïve I have been believing our press or anyone else’s.
every nation has learned from the nazi model.
I honestly never realised in my opinion how big brother and subtle it has become .

very sad but I no longer believe a word of our or anyone else’s media.
 
Russia’s long-standing campaign to spread disinformation and mistrust in media and politics has been astonishingly successful, no doubt amplified by social media and their click bait algorithms.
 
The girl I work with in Kiev had to flee to her parents house in the countryside yesterday. She can't leave the country as she won't leave her boyfriend behind. He can't leave as he falls into the age bracket of conscription. She posted yesterday pleading for people to believe she's not a nazi. She's actually afraid that people around the world are buying the nazi pretext. Not sure if they are believing it in Russia or not, like I say, they're staying out of zoom calls as too ashamed.
 
Are some people saying that Russia’s actions of entering Ukraine with military force is justified? And that justification comes from Ukraine (government and people) moving away from an alliance with Russia and closer with the west?

My view is that Putin is having to ever escalate to maintain power. I appreciate that Russia hasn’t had the respect of other nations. And this breeds a hostile foreign policy where no one trusts the other side.
Disinformation is a major part of Russian/Soviet foreign policy and it has had effect on the west for quite a while. Deliberate false information to create division and confusion.
My concern is that few world leaders are capable of negotiating with Putin. And if you did, can you believe what was agreed.
In my mind, none of this justifies Russia’s current actions. Controlling Ukraine doesn’t solve a specific issue that will lead to a period of peace. It will escalate the desire for other countries to protect themselves and then Putin will have to be aggressive against them.
 
mission65 said:
At 56 years my biggest amazement is how naïve I have been believing our press or anyone else’s.
every nation has learned from the nazi model.
I honestly never realised in my opinion how big brother and subtle it has become .

very sad but I no longer believe a word of our or anyone else’s media.
Click to expand...
The soviets have had a department for Disinformation since 1923.
Though that also might be disinformation.
 
With regards to Ukraine’s current situation, why do you think that is relevant and what should we be considering?
 
This conflict is horrific and also entirely predictable. Thank God that most of us on here had the luck to be born in the UK rather than the Ukraine.

The West has gone soft, has been for years. Obsessing on gender studies, rainbow flags, transgendering kids, teaching critical race theory, net zero, inclusiveness, offence archaeology, offense culture.

This counts for very little when shots get fired.

Blocking UK fracking, blocking North Sea exploration, blocking the coking coal mine in the North East - profoundly stupid decisions.

Buying refined metals, windmills and solar cells from China plus gas from Russia. Genius

Hosting the Olympics in China where there are death camps, genocide, forced sterilisation.

Germany and Italy are blocking the West from removing Russia from the SWIFT banking system which is one of the most effective non military interventions available.

Germany blocked UK flights with defensive weaponry using its airspace, despite the fact that war was obvious. What the Ukranians needed more than anything was shoulder fired anti tank and aircraft weaponry - this is what defeated the Russians in Afghanistan.

The UK supplied such anti tank weapons ahead of the likely guerilla war that will follow.

Germany sent 5000 helmets to the Ukraine and blocked Nato allies supplying German made military hardware.

This is a very sharp reminder that energy security, food security, military security actually matter. Preferred pronouns, not so much so in Ukraine right now.

The whole or Europe is in a right mess - Germany most of all. Trump was onto this years ago.

Maybe the conspiracy nutters were right all along. Maybe East German Merkel was a USSR stooge. Her predecessor is Chairman of the Russian - German pipeline after all.

m.dw.com

Trump slams Germany over pipeline at NATO – DW – 07/11/2018

US President Donald Trump says Germany is "captive" to Russia due to the Nord Stream 2 undersea gas pipeline. The comments were made during a breakfast meeting with NATO General Secretary Jens Stoltenberg.
m.dw.com m.dw.com
 
Trump was getting all the briefings, statistics proves he had to be right occasionally on the things he talked about.

I strongly disagree with your list as signs we have gone soft. It could equally have included sporting events or theatre/opera. They are signs of cultural development and are associated with civilisation.
 
Things like what this story describes also dont help peoples perceptions of what is happening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60528276

Sadly we now live in a world of click bait and posting videos for likes without anyone actually checking anything, also made worse by "genuine" media outlets not checking their source materials.
 
mission65 said:
At 56 years my biggest amazement is how naïve I have been believing our press or anyone else’s.
every nation has learned from the nazi model.
I honestly never realised in my opinion how big brother and subtle it has become .

very sad but I no longer believe a word of our or anyone else’s media.
Click to expand...

WEF = 1984. "You'll own nothing and be happy" - Klaus Schwab. Build Back Better = bbb = 666

photo_2022-02-26_12-35-31.jpg

Big Phil said:
News channels are obviously biased. Don't think there is a neutral one. Try watching RT news for a bit. Get the news from the flip side.
Click to expand...

Try put the genie back in the bottle after you real-eyes. It's more psy-ops than anything these days and a lot of projection about misinformation.
 
Big Phil said:
News channels are obviously biased. Don't think there is a neutral one. Try watching RT news for a bit. Get the news from the flip side.
Click to expand...
Yes - different points of view from various channels - BBC, Sky, RT, NHK, Al Jazeera etc..

No doubt about the fact that there is a lot of NATO air activity to the west and south of Ukraine.

Flightradar24 has live traffic info:
Boeing KR-135R Stratotankers (in-flight refuelling) have been doing relay legs to the west constantly for the last couple of days. Currently one over Romania (LAGR250), with an F16 Falcon (VIPER31) patrolling the area.
Also reconnaisance drone Northrop Grumman RQ-4B Global Hawk over the Black Sea (FORTE11)


Also, apparently quite a few Russian tanks seem to be having issues with supplies/fuel, as Russian convoys are being attacked.

Looks like it's not going quite as easily as Putin may have expected. Also apparently 2 large Russian troop transport aeroplanes were shot down last night/this morning...

Obviously (as has been clearly pointed out in previous posts), there's a LOT of fake news and disinformation about, so make what you will of the links I've posted (although the Flightradar24 links are not going to be fakes).
 
Last edited:
Calimori said:
Trump was getting all the briefings, statistics proves he had to be right occasionally on the things he talked about.

I strongly disagree with your list as signs we have gone soft. It could equally have included sporting events or theatre/opera. They are signs of cultural development and are associated with civilisation.
Click to expand...
Civilisations are built on common fear of an enemy and the protection offered by government. So it's inevitable that we're constantly being fed fear and war.
 
Rob zombie said:
Civilisations are built on common fear of an enemy and the protection offered by government. So it's inevitable that we're constantly being fed fear and war.
Click to expand...

Yeah pretty much it all seems to be fear based + divide and conquer. Russia has been their boogey man for years, we're used to that from the cold war even without putin.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom