Or ditch the website and just sell to the forum.
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Retro Refurbs
- Thread starter jonathan
- Start date
That's me bought decals for my Fishtales.
I did have a topic on here which was all about updates on new stuff, showing photos etc, and provided a discount code for members only. I had to remove that code because people all over the world were using it and sharing it, people who've never had an account. It was even getting posted around Facebook at one point. Then, last week I had ask the mods to delete the topic completely - because I was getting emails from people demanding I give them a discount code just because people on here got one.
Are these guys for real or what? I've never known such entitled pr***s.
My brother got a special promotion from EE the other day. An iPhone 7Plus upgrade for only £7 a month. I don't see anyone bitching to EE because they didn't get the same deal. I'm not in the EE club, didn't go bitching that I wanted the same deal from O2. But when it comes to pinball, different story altogether...
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Sheesh that's way out out of order and pathetic. There ain't half some petty people in the pin community worse than any other I've been in
I've been in some real slummy communities. This one (specifically more pinballinfo than any other site) is actually pretty damn good.
Whether that's a compliment to the site or a statement about the other communities I've been in, I'll leave that to others to decide...
Whether that's a compliment to the site or a statement about the other communities I've been in, I'll leave that to others to decide...
I used to think the video guys were worse (older days of Jamma+ spring to mind) but yep, getting just as bad it appears. Admire your patience Pete, there would have been a simple two word answer If I'd received that.
All of a sudden, knowing the supply is about to end, I feel hideously guilty about to ask if I can still get some decals with the forum discount!
Pete, sometimes people dont know how good they have it till its gone! One day these idiots will be sat there with a unobtainable plastic or decal going ' I know someone who used to make these!'
There is a clear need in the market and I doff my cap to you for being able to fill it....I just can't believe that some people have been the way they are....life is too short to deal with assh@les!
Take my order for three decal sets that I know only you do and then all is forgiven....oh, don't forgot the discount!
Pete, sometimes people dont know how good they have it till its gone! One day these idiots will be sat there with a unobtainable plastic or decal going ' I know someone who used to make these!'
There is a clear need in the market and I doff my cap to you for being able to fill it....I just can't believe that some people have been the way they are....life is too short to deal with assh@les!
Take my order for three decal sets that I know only you do and then all is forgiven....oh, don't forgot the discount!
Hmmm. Dealing with Pinfolk can't be easy. There are some seriously weird people out there, I blame the flashing lights on games. On one hand we have people who demand that obscure items turn up the following day and on the other hand there are people happy to wait 3 years for a machine to be produced. Sorry it didn't work out for you Pete
No need to feel guilty at all mate. You are a member here, and active. It was just my way of kinda sponsoring the forum like some other folk do.
It all adds to the perks of being on this site and is supposed to encourage more users to be here and participate.
Anyway drop me a message and I'll sort you out.
....and any non-members reading this can either do one or sign up and introduce yourself!
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2011
- Messages
- 161
- Alias
- Phillip Eaton
Really interesting thread.
It's clearly tricky trying to create generic laws that protect investors into things that benefit society, but then don't cause monopolies and seemingly pointless impediments to startups.
It's even more tricky when there are differences in those laws between every country!
I wonder how all this will change in the UK when it leaves the EU?
It's clearly tricky trying to create generic laws that protect investors into things that benefit society, but then don't cause monopolies and seemingly pointless impediments to startups.
It's even more tricky when there are differences in those laws between every country!
I wonder how all this will change in the UK when it leaves the EU?
I agree in that this is a really difficult case even in the world of copyright, which is already a pain, because the copyright holders are active (at least in some regard.) The issue is dissatisfaction with the copyright holder's use of the IP - not an area that has ever given any leeway to people, I'm afraid, see many homebrew Nintendo-inspired games get shut down despite Nintendo themselves doing absolutely nothing with the IP they are defending in that case - and that there is a need to consume spare parts to upkeep existing examples of bought hardware. In that case, unfortunately the 'leasing, not buying' trick in copyright means we're still screwed.
It's one of those areas where the morality is crystal clear, but laws do not attempt (and nor should they attempt) to codify morality.
I believe it will get more skewed towards the corporate benefit, but in this particular case, EU membership won't make a single difference because the rights holders are in America.
The world of whose intellectual property is whose just got weirder. Is anyone aware of the 'monkey selfie' case?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Apparently a selfie belongs to whoever took the picture. This one is heading for the courts would you believe
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The thing with what Pete does.....could he not get round it by charging for the materials, printing costs and man power only?
I'm a naughty boy, I happily pirate films* and music* but will support small businesses in pinball where I can, even at 'cost' to the rights owners where they are clearly taking the pi5s and have no intention to make the stuff themselves.
This is a real shame, as if PPS had any real love for pinball, they'd have offered Pete a deal like they get 30% of every sale or something, and he'd have had the chance to accept it (and pass the cost on to the buyer) or not. But I highly doubt they offered him this opportunity, as they're apparently (by watching their actions in response to this and many other small pin companies) only interested in closing down the active manufacturers of their unused and inactive IP. Sad. PPS may have the moral high ground but they are the ar5eholes yet again in this case.
Pete, I hope you get your love for pinball back now it will stop being a job. And I'll be sure to come to you, under the radar, for any bespoke requests in future where I think your advice or skills may be needed.
*a joke, I would never pirate anything.
This is a real shame, as if PPS had any real love for pinball, they'd have offered Pete a deal like they get 30% of every sale or something, and he'd have had the chance to accept it (and pass the cost on to the buyer) or not. But I highly doubt they offered him this opportunity, as they're apparently (by watching their actions in response to this and many other small pin companies) only interested in closing down the active manufacturers of their unused and inactive IP. Sad. PPS may have the moral high ground but they are the ar5eholes yet again in this case.
Pete, I hope you get your love for pinball back now it will stop being a job. And I'll be sure to come to you, under the radar, for any bespoke requests in future where I think your advice or skills may be needed.
*a joke, I would never pirate anything.
Except Octopus Porn?
Well said Pete, but WE need you around bud, Your work is FAB and we would all be lost without.
Chin up mate you'll get through it.
Cheers
kev
Chin up mate you'll get through it.
Cheers
kev
They probably have, they own the stuff, although when it comes to keeping vintage pinballs working by providing replacement parts that are not otherwise available there's room for a healthy debate. Supposing you owned a classic Bentley but couldn't repair it because someone owned the rights to the shape of the bodywork and wouldn't let anybody make replacement parts?
The real problem is they have the legal high ground. There's no way round that.
I'm sure I read somewhere they don't own as many of the rites as they make out
I think Pete called Rick out on Pinside and asked him to provide some evidence that he actually has the rights.
Of course Rick isn't obliged to do so; but some might argue that his refusal to do so could cause questions to be asked about what he really has rights to.
Of course Rick isn't obliged to do so; but some might argue that his refusal to do so could cause questions to be asked about what he really has rights to.
PPS isn't a concern for me. They tried to take down threads on here where I was showing my stuff. I believe Paul asked them to provide evidence and they never did. Over on Pinside however it's a different story, because Robin will remove anything Rick asks him to. Rick was asked numerous times by Pinside users to show or explain what rights he has for the Capcom stuff, and he never gave any answer, but he had Robin take down my topic on Big Bang Bar decals.
This whole thing about copyright is just nonesense and it's the hypocrites who frustrate me the most. There was a very well known company selling "fully licensed" Johnny Mnemonic decals on eBay US (and their own site) recently. Fully licensed as is in they're paying "the Rick tax" for the Williams trademark, however they didn't secure the Johnny Mnemonic license, or the license to use Keanu Reeves' face. I checked.
That idiot from Australia, with his "licensed" set of Indiana Jones decals for $600 printed using the wrong colours, doesn't get any hassle because he has an agreement to use the Williams trademark from PPS. Doesn't have the rights to Indiana Jones though. These are supposedly left over from years ago. Funny how stock never seems to run out though.
That's just for starters and concerns the Bally Williams stuff. What about everything else? Lets look at Stern and Data East. They will NEVER make official plastic sets or decals for their games unless they do a re-run of the game itself, but even Vault Editions usually have altered artwork. Anyone waiting for an official Tron plastic set or cabinet decals is going to be waiting a very, very long time.
Wonder if those Jurassic Park and Star Trek plastic sets from CPR were licensed? No one cared to mention or question it.
Look through some of the stuff from Ministry of Pinball, and Pinball Center. Licensed?
What about the alt translites for sale all over eBay and Pinside. Licensed?
Mods and toppers all over Pinside. Licensed?
We also have a guy who's been very vocal in criticising Retro Refurbs, yet he loves to download images from DeviantArt, ripping off little artists, and turning them in to translites.
I estimate 99% of stuff being made for pinball isn't licensed, unless people are stupid enough to hand over a percentage of their sales to PPS for the Bally Williams logos, but that only covers part of the problem.
At the end of then day, most if not nearly all of this stuff isn't ever going to get made legitimately. And I mean never. The problem for me is people. They want the impossible, done cheap. But just when you figure out a way to make them happy they then want the impossibler, done cheaper.
Anyways, I've had a lot of support and encouragement this past week (thank you to those people). Seems like all the critics are keeping a low profile at the minute.
This whole thing about copyright is just nonesense and it's the hypocrites who frustrate me the most. There was a very well known company selling "fully licensed" Johnny Mnemonic decals on eBay US (and their own site) recently. Fully licensed as is in they're paying "the Rick tax" for the Williams trademark, however they didn't secure the Johnny Mnemonic license, or the license to use Keanu Reeves' face. I checked.
That idiot from Australia, with his "licensed" set of Indiana Jones decals for $600 printed using the wrong colours, doesn't get any hassle because he has an agreement to use the Williams trademark from PPS. Doesn't have the rights to Indiana Jones though. These are supposedly left over from years ago. Funny how stock never seems to run out though.
That's just for starters and concerns the Bally Williams stuff. What about everything else? Lets look at Stern and Data East. They will NEVER make official plastic sets or decals for their games unless they do a re-run of the game itself, but even Vault Editions usually have altered artwork. Anyone waiting for an official Tron plastic set or cabinet decals is going to be waiting a very, very long time.
Wonder if those Jurassic Park and Star Trek plastic sets from CPR were licensed? No one cared to mention or question it.
Look through some of the stuff from Ministry of Pinball, and Pinball Center. Licensed?
What about the alt translites for sale all over eBay and Pinside. Licensed?
Mods and toppers all over Pinside. Licensed?
We also have a guy who's been very vocal in criticising Retro Refurbs, yet he loves to download images from DeviantArt, ripping off little artists, and turning them in to translites.
I estimate 99% of stuff being made for pinball isn't licensed, unless people are stupid enough to hand over a percentage of their sales to PPS for the Bally Williams logos, but that only covers part of the problem.
At the end of then day, most if not nearly all of this stuff isn't ever going to get made legitimately. And I mean never. The problem for me is people. They want the impossible, done cheap. But just when you figure out a way to make them happy they then want the impossibler, done cheaper.
Anyways, I've had a lot of support and encouragement this past week (thank you to those people). Seems like all the critics are keeping a low profile at the minute.
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Sadly not.
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Fair play for giving the whole thing a go Pete - I can only begin to imagine how much 'grief' you can begin to attract from certain types of customer when you are in the business of providiing bespoke '1 off' printed items to the general consumer market (even more so when it is a specialised niche such as Pinball). Ever since people started being able to print decent A4 paper prints on their half decent inkjet home printer expectations of what you should be able to buy and for how little have got very silly in many cases. The amount if work and cost involved in creating 'proper' artwork is totally undervalued and under appreciated.
At work we try and only deal with 'business' customers and that can be challenging enough!
Anyway, I'd better get that order in for a set of Indy 500 decals sharpish. If I get it across to you on the website this evening can you make sure it's down with me in Devon on a 'before 9' delivery for tomorrow morning? I'll make sure I get the cheque in the post to you for it sometime this week....
I was asked what my policy was on intellectual property - I advised that if you provide proof you own the rights then I would remove the thread.
I'm still waiting.
Speaks volumes.
I'm still waiting.
Speaks volumes.
Dude we're all on you side over this side of the pond. It would be different if the "licence holders" showed any inclination to produce these much needed items so sod em!
PPS isn't a concern for me. They tried to take down threads on here where I was showing my stuff. I believe Paul asked them to provide evidence and they never did. Over on Pinside however it's a different story, because Robin is far more gullable and will remove anything Rick asks him to. Rick was asked numerous times by Pinside users to show or explain what rights he has for the Capcom stuff, and he never gave any answer, but he had Robin take down my topic on Big Bang Bar decals.
This whole thing about copyright is just nonesense and it's the hypocrites who frustrate me the most. There was a very well known company selling "fully licensed" Johnny Mnemonic decals on eBay US (and their own site) recently. Fully licensed as is in they're paying "the Rick tax" for the Williams trademark, however they didn't secure the Johnny Mnemonic license, or the license to use Keanu Reeves' face. I checked.
That idiot from Australia, with his "licensed" set of Indiana Jones decals for $600 printed using the wrong colours, doesn't get any hassle because he has an agreement to use the Williams trademark from PPS. Doesn't have the rights to Indiana Jones though. These are supposedly left over from years ago. Funny how stock never seems to run out though.
That's just for starters and concerns the Bally Williams stuff. What about everything else? Lets look at Stern and Data East. They will NEVER make official plastic sets or decals for their games unless they do a re-run of the game itself, but even Vault Editions usually have altered artwork. Anyone waiting for an official Tron plastic set or cabinet decals is going to be waiting a very, very long time.
Wonder if those Jurassic Park and Star Trek plastic sets from CPR were licensed? No one cared to mention or question it.
Look through some of the stuff from Ministry of Pinball, and Pinball Center. Licensed?
What about the alt translites for sale all over eBay and Pinside. Licensed?
Mods and toppers all over Pinside. Licensed?
We also have a guy who's been very vocal in criticising Retro Refurbs, yet he loves to download images from DeviantArt, ripping off little artists, and turning them in to translites.
I estimate 99% of stuff being made for pinball isn't licensed, unless people are stupid enough to hand over a percentage of their sales to PPS for the Bally Williams logos, but that only covers part of the problem.
Copyright issues are of no concern for me. At the end of then day, most if not nearly all of this stuff isn't ever going to get made legitimately. And I mean never. The problem for me is people. They want the impossible, done cheap. But just when you figure out a way to make them happy they then want the impossibler, done cheaper.
Anyways, I've had a lot of support and encouragement this past week (thank you to those people). Seems like all the critics are keeping a low profile at the minute.
I get exactly they same when people ask me for custom repaint quotes. You never hear from em again. And I'm cheaper than anyone else. Not many people would work for £10 an hour
