Ben we did meet as I recorded some of your scores Sat Eve
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UKPinfest 2019 23rd, 24th, 25th August
- Thread starter Big Phil
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Yes you are right! Good to see you! Wasn’t quite good enough to qualify as my high scoring games are not consistent enough!
Made some great personal best scores on creature and junkyard though 52 mill and 17 mil respectively but I still need to work on my flipper skills and stop over flipping too!
Watching myself back on PB live streams I could see how much I flipped but could also see where I had good ball control let down by lousy aim!
See you again soon
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So wouldn't you say he gained an unfair advantage by having multiple goes on a machine that maybe in the finals...
Even though those entries were not submitted, he was only entitled a single go on F14 unless he had multiple tickets... But as the video shown only one score was recorded
I like Rich he is a fun and awesome guy, I have a lot of respect for him as he has always been supportive of me.
But cheating is cheating at the end of the day, I'm not sure what the penalty he will face from IFPA...
But it does call into question previous results...
As UK #1 he should have known better...
This being my first Pinfest- I had a brilliant time. Chuffed with my win against Tim getting me into the quarter finals. Furthest I’ve got in a big comp & qualifying was no easy feat. Looking at the average points of those I was playing against, great competition. Also getting to play so many machines for the first time was brilliant. Orbital, TNA as well as Matrix being highlights. Sorry to see this about Rich; he was the first to be real supportive and encouraging at Special When Lit. He talked me through a bunch of the machines and is good company. An extra game is clearly not on, but as Greg says I don’t think he gained much by it. Does this mean we all move up a position? When do we get final results 
I wish I’d known those games were all going to be in the comp on Friday night, I’d at least have given them all one go before qualifying. As it was I’d only played creech and TNA. Otherwise I might have been the champ! Oh well, always next year
Big thanks for the videos and commentary, helps a lot to learn what to go for/even how to play. Craig’s so accurate! Also means I can show off my come back -
at 35:30 which most of my family have had to see now
I wish I’d known those games were all going to be in the comp on Friday night, I’d at least have given them all one go before qualifying. As it was I’d only played creech and TNA. Otherwise I might have been the champ! Oh well, always next year
Big thanks for the videos and commentary, helps a lot to learn what to go for/even how to play. Craig’s so accurate! Also means I can show off my come back -
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If we want to analyse the tournament isn’t it cheating that people entered who owned machines in the comp ?
Isn’t it a bit immoral to chastise a man who maybe doesn’t have too much for practicing with his goes, when wealthier peeps are not cheating by having over ten goes.
If you are a top 20 player isn’t it very immoral to have one of your games that you know inside out in a competition ?
Much worse than 1 extra go ?
Of course not.
Don’t do a comp based on greed ?
Isn’t it a bit immoral to chastise a man who maybe doesn’t have too much for practicing with his goes, when wealthier peeps are not cheating by having over ten goes.
If you are a top 20 player isn’t it very immoral to have one of your games that you know inside out in a competition ?
Much worse than 1 extra go ?
Of course not.
Don’t do a comp based on greed ?
What happened during the Roadshow game in the final when @moonrakers drained ball was resurrected in the shooter lane? was it purely a case of the ball save was not quite timed out or minimum switch hits not made, or a malfunction? comments in the chat thought it was a malfunction and the ball should have been put back in the trough. I'm not doubting Wayne's decision to play on but would just like to understand.
It's F14. If you're not going to take a sub-300k credit score on the chin, which is distressingly common on that game - don't sodding pick it during a ticket qualifier.
I havent watched that back but think it's likely to have been a long ball save. Get surprised by that at home sometimes on that machine.
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It's all tongue in cheek pal.
What time and where on the video? What colour T shirt do they have on?
It was simply a ballsave - nothing more nothing less.
Certain machines have differing criteria as to when a ballsave is awarded, I certainly don't begin to understand them all. Corvette has perhaps the strangest of them all - I'm sure that it's based on witchcraft.
Just because they are their machines, doesn't mean squat, did the orgnisers win? No. They may know the little nuances the machines have, but thats what the practice is for.
And it's not immoral to chastise him, he cheated plain and simple, and if it wasn't discovered, he would still have the money and his placing.
Yes, the format favours those people that can afford more entries, but if you're a consistent player, you shouldn't need loads, it would be interesting to know what the maximum number of entries any one person bought on the Saturday @Wizcat ?
I'd like to apologise to the pinball community for starting another game on F14 Tomcat without recording the first score during the qualification phase in the Daventry Comp , it was a spontaneous moment of madness and stupidity and I'm feeling truly sorry. However, I would like to point out that I never intended to submit any scores from this ticket and voided this ticket and was looking to get practise in on machines that I hadn't yet played in the tournament bank . I know that it wasn't fair to others to play an extra game on this machine and I have disqualified myself from this tournament and returned the prize money .
The fears about the richest placing higher keeps coming back up, but in my eyes they just don't bear the weight when examined.
The tickets themselves demand that you can chain three good games back to back in order to place highly - and then after that, win all of your head-to-head games.
The chance of a poor player with deep pockets eventually 'winning the lottery' and not only getting 3 above-their-skill-level games on one ticket, and also then managing to beat the other players in the tournament proper....
...there's already far, far more likely cases of random chance, unfair outcomes etc. that affect matters anyway, and we rightfully just declare those as 'that's pinball.'
The higher skilled, more consistent players still shine right on through with the ticket system.
The tickets themselves demand that you can chain three good games back to back in order to place highly - and then after that, win all of your head-to-head games.
The chance of a poor player with deep pockets eventually 'winning the lottery' and not only getting 3 above-their-skill-level games on one ticket, and also then managing to beat the other players in the tournament proper....
...there's already far, far more likely cases of random chance, unfair outcomes etc. that affect matters anyway, and we rightfully just declare those as 'that's pinball.'
The higher skilled, more consistent players still shine right on through with the ticket system.
Problem is, if you take a hard line with who spends more time on a game, and who spends more time on a given game, you're effectively killing off the events.
You've incentivised the players that want to enter the tournament, to not bring any games...
If players were banned from entering a tournament if their machine was used people would simply not pledge their machines meaning that the comp would be unlikely to run in the first place.
Of the 10 machines used, 6 of them (F14, HS2, RS, TNA, Circus, Robocop) were donated by people who did not enter the competition at all. CftBL was donated by Flipout (at my request to Matt), and 3 came from me (IMDN & WPT owned by me, AS loaned by Courtney).
I have never owned half of those machines, but know the rules inside out, as I do for the vast majority of JJP, Stern, Williams and Bally games. That is experience built up over many years playing, watching streams, and reading rule sets. The machines were all published beforehand as soon as I had them confirmed, with the exception of Robocop, which was a very late substitution (less than 5 minutes before doors opening) due to Black Jack failing.
The machines were picked based on suitability for competition play, availability (preference given to those machines duplicates were pledged - TNA, Robocop and CftBL) and the likelihood that they would all stand up to a weekend of hard playing - to suggest that I cheated by putting my own machines in I find distasteful. In fact I find it is generally a disadvantage, as having played a game set up a certain way at home and then setting them up in a different place with different levels and tilt sensitivities the machine plays completely differently. My scores on IMDN were well below par from what I would expect to get at home (to get on the highscore table it needed a score over 2Billion). The same applies to playing a different version of the same game.
How the comp was based on greed is still an argument I don't understand - the prize money is to encourage people from further afield (Europe mainly) to travel and thus increase the appeal of the show. I understand that you are not interested in competition, you have made that perfectly clear on any number of occasions, but many others are - the competition is to appeal to them, if you don't want to enter don't, as many people didn't.
I am just pointing out the system has bigger flaws than starting a new game inherent in its design, and so do not subscribe to a witch hunt and bullying of a top player who made a mistake
No problem with the tournament , has to be some format and I would have played in the if I had not stopped myself on the grounds of having too much drugs in my system in the form of alcohol the night before
I think it’s great there was a tournament and it has to be some format and people pick holes in all of them but let’s keep it honest and as friendly and positive for all
No problem with the tournament , has to be some format and I would have played in the if I had not stopped myself on the grounds of having too much drugs in my system in the form of alcohol the night before
I think it’s great there was a tournament and it has to be some format and people pick holes in all of them but let’s keep it honest and as friendly and positive for all
Have the organisers considered randomising the 3 games to play for qualifying for each entry? Would probably make even more money that way.
That’s funny because I have been playing in lots of tournaments this year ?
Don’t dislike the tournament Wayne, it is fine, but has certain attributes that exist.
I actually think that your hard work should be commended,
Yes you have a big advantage putting your own games in but it’s not cheating, and i have no problem
You obviously are taking it personally and I am sorry for that, I am very thankful that you put in the effort to do the competition,
But it does have flaws that we all have to live with.
My points were all based around a person a do not want to see give up a hobby that I think he loves because of a hounding on social media.
... and beating me! Stop playing in tournaments, damn it.
Nice one Rich, you've accepted this gracefully.
Karma restored, you can let it go.
Pinball VAR...love it!
Now that would be an interesting concept, but I don't think it'd be received very well. Maybe I can run a smaller (FREE) tournament somewhere to test it out and see how it's received.
Was the method used in the EPC last year for qualifying.
with unlimited tickets?
I think that would definitely sort the top players out from the rest of us.
It's one thing doing well on 3 games if you choose them, another thing altogether to do well on 3 randomly chosen games.
I managed to qualify top in a tournament in france earlier in the year (which for me is a massive acheivement) but only because I could pick the games. I knew how to do well on two of the 3 games I played, and had an idea on Metallica. But went out in the first knockout stage because I didnt have clue on the other machines in the lineup.
3 random games and I wouldn't have got close to qualifying at all let alone in 1st.
I still don't get the whole notion that the qualifying format benefitted the 'top players'. They will more than likely qualify high up in any type of competiton qualifying format as they are better players.
If you managed to play to or near your best and get 3 decent scores on the 1 ticket you'd pretty much be guaranteed to be in the top 24 and into the knockout stages. Heck I even managed to get a bye to round 2 and I don't see myself at one of the 'top players' at all, several of these people qualified behind me and that was with only 4 entries (because of the 4 entries for £20 and no matter what, I was not going to buy any more after, even though I could have).
No one had a gun held to their head to make them buy more entries, it was their choice if they wanted to keep entering to or not.
And with the issue of people playing their own games in comps, would that mean that anyone hosting a league meet would be banned from playing in it?
If you managed to play to or near your best and get 3 decent scores on the 1 ticket you'd pretty much be guaranteed to be in the top 24 and into the knockout stages. Heck I even managed to get a bye to round 2 and I don't see myself at one of the 'top players' at all, several of these people qualified behind me and that was with only 4 entries (because of the 4 entries for £20 and no matter what, I was not going to buy any more after, even though I could have).
No one had a gun held to their head to make them buy more entries, it was their choice if they wanted to keep entering to or not.
And with the issue of people playing their own games in comps, would that mean that anyone hosting a league meet would be banned from playing in it?
Just nit-picking of the whole thing now Ian as deflection tactics.... Neither Wayne or Paul derserve it after all the work they put in. Ladies and their handbags....
