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The OFFICIAL LICENSED 'moans about pricing' thread

mark9 said:
Not true, the business only gets the net price of the machine when selling. Doesn’t matter whether selling to another business or not, the buyer pays tax on it. Do people really think that when you buy NIB the machine is worth 20% more than it was to the business?
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You are missing my point. My point was that for the majority here, the VAT is irrelevant as they have to pay it.

If it is £8k and £1,600 is VAT, then you sell for £7k, you, as a private buyer don’t pass on the £600 VAT, it’s just wrapped up in the price.

Most on here are private sellers and private buyers.
 
kev a said:
This is one of the reasons I haven't brought any 'nearly new' games, in most cases its better value to get a new one ex VAT.

What happens with resellers of older games (HLD etc) They charge VAT on top, even though presumably VAT had already been payed back in the 90s?
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It's a very good question, they should only be charging vat if they paid vat when purchasing. Or on the vat margin scheme, with buying and selling second hand goods, you pay a lower rate vat on any increase in value from purchase to sale.
 
Regardless of VAT, the market will always sort itself out. What you think you should be paying doesn't always correlate to what you'll probably have to pay.

Everyone waiting for nearly new recent Stern Pros for £7k may be waiting a while, or maybe not.
 
Supply and demand dictates the second hand market always, hence higher prices during lockdown, lower prices now and probably even lower prices coming thanks to Trump 2.0 .

Was just trying to make a point about the value of pins when they are brand new, I wasn't even taking into account the loss of value when no longer new in box!
 
mark9 said:
@kev a How much does it cost to get a pinball shipped there, do you use Martin to drop off at a port?
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I have used Martin before, he got my CSI from 'oop north' and dropped to the shipper in Portsmouth, the couple of new ones got shipped on a pallet, usually between 150-300
Although if selling back to mainland I would have to either pay the VAT or sell at a lower price to offset the VAT the buyer has to pay, even on old games that had VAT originally payed in the UK.

Like Triple H said, swings and roundabouts, save on big ticket items, but essentials and travel are more expensive.
 
The general retail market is still very good plenty of nib selling but less to pinball people I think the pinball community need to get real with prices this is not a covid boom anymore losses on nib are back to how they where pre COVID the only thing that is different is they are much more expensive but if you do it on a percentage of the loss it’s probably the same
The problem you have with used is that every one is terrified of buying anything as they may loose money and the seller doesn’t want to sell it below x amount as he is going to loose money hence we are stuck in a very stagnant market
 
CHRIS B PINBALLS said:
The problem you have with used is that every one is terrified of buying anything as they may loose money and the seller doesn’t want to sell it below x amount as he is going to loose money hence we are stuck in a very stagnant market
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And as we head into a tariff-induced global recession of epic proportions, the value of these machines is only going to go down, so sellers would be financially better off biting the bullet now.
 
I got stung 1k on a game a year ago, because I bought it in the covid high and sold because needs must. But I sold it and moved on. It was either take the loss or make no sale, I chose to make a sale. If you can’t ‘afford’ to take any sort of loss on a very expensive toy which is a luxury not a necessity I’d be questioning your financial priorities.
 
Sam C said:
I got stung 1k on a game a year ago, because I bought it in the covid high and sold because needs must. But I sold it and moved on. It was either take the loss or make no sale, I chose to make a sale. If you can’t ‘afford’ to take any sort of loss on a very expensive toy which is a luxury not a necessity I’d be questioning your financial priorities.
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Yeah we liken it to car buying.
You'll almost always take a loss, but you need to consider the value of the mileage during ownership.
A few beers later and I've convinced the Mrs a £10k NIB is a great idea!
 
£3 to 4k loss, instantly on premium whilst it's on production, Keep it long enough so it becomes "rare" maybe less.

£1.5 to £2k loss instantly on a pro whilst it's in production, unless someone can't wait or there taking a long time to arrive.

Nothing much has changed they used to be £6k sold for 3 to 4. The difference is there a .massive difference both psychologically and reality of spend £6k compared to £12 k.
 
Anyone who got into the hobby in 2020 to 2023 might be fooled into that and I understand.
Whilst I haven't owned pins prior to 2020 I have been lurking around since the 2000, space and myself moving around always made a giant coffin not possible
 
Like a new car people need to accept the moment the cardboard is removed loss

Same as a new car the moment it's driven loss

Fear of missing out, the I must have it, The two year warranty on nitb and now finance is the only reason for a nitb.
 
And the reason to have nitb has always been that, except the finance bit and the upfront amount which is now insane. New kitchen+ cash or giant noisy man toy. 🤣🤣🤣
 
cmrl9 said:
New kitchen+ cash or giant noisy man toy. 🤣🤣🤣
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New kitchen = Lady likes.
New pinball = Man & Lady likes.

Logic dictates pinball is the clear winner here. Invest now, "....these things are going to go up in value!"
(that line always makes me smile)
 
New pinball = Man & Lady likes

Lucky man! My wife tolerates them, zero interest in playing them.

Well everything goes up in value of you keep it long enough 30 forty years 🤣🤣🤣

That means il probably be dead before avengers is worth alot 🤭🤣

Look at Adam's family 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤭
 
cmrl9 said:
🤭🤣

Look at Adam's family 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤭
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That's one of a few exceptions, stuff from the 60's / 70's (EM's) and a lot from the 80's & 90's aren't worth anything like the inflated prices. Those TAF's on eBay all at the 7K upwards figure aren't going anywhere.
It's Stagnation, like Chris B mentioned above. Pinstagion if you will.:)
 
CHRIS B PINBALLS said:
losses on nib are back to how they where pre COVID the only thing that is different is they are much more expensive but if you do it on a percentage of the loss it’s probably the same
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Agreed. I’ve bought plenty of NIB games over the years, often without having played them, and I’ve always expected to lose money when I sell them on. When that loss was 10-20% of say £7k for a Premium, I was much more willing to roll the dice on a game than I am with the loss now being 10-20% of £11.5k for a Premium.

The thing is I know from experience that there are some games which most people love and I just don’t get on with. Similarly there are games I have loved when I’ve first played them, but have tired of very quickly. With limited opportunity to get many games in on a machine before purchasing, It’s become a pretty huge gamble.

It also means that the game needs to check more boxes than before - I’m prob not going to take the risk for a game with a theme I don’t care for, or which has very early code.

Take DnD - the theme does nothing for me but if I could get a Premium for the same price I paid for my GB Premium or even Stranger Things Premium then I’d probably have one on the way, but at £11.5k I’m just not willing to risk it.
 
I’m also amazed that people expect zero loss on these new, high value wearing items. It’s very much like cars, watches and other lux products. If you are worried about the loss, then don’t buy new. Try and get a desirable title, used, at the bottom of the depreciation curve and you’ll be fine.

That being said, the current new in box price must even be hitting the most depreciating accepting pockets, which will ultimately result in fewer titles in the community on these shores. Which feasibly could bolster values.
 
kev a said:
This is one of the reasons I haven't brought any 'nearly new' games, in most cases its better value to get a new one ex VAT.

What happens with resellers of older games (HLD etc) They charge VAT on top, even though presumably VAT had already been payed back in the 90s?
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Any company that is VAT registered has to charge VAT based on the date supplied. New, old or refurbished. It's not something you can pick and choose to add.
 
cmrl9 said:
£3 to 4k loss, instantly on premium whilst it's on production, Keep it long enough so it becomes "rare" maybe less.

£1.5 to £2k loss instantly on a pro whilst it's in production, unless someone can't wait or there taking a long time to arrive.

Nothing much has changed they used to be £6k sold for 3 to 4. The difference is there a .massive difference both psychologically and reality of spend £6k compared to £12 k.
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Not necessarily disagreeing, but genuinely interested; where are you getting your figures from here? £3k to £4k loss on say an £11.5k NIB premium seems a bit high? (That's like 30%+?)

I do remember seeing i think an UXmen LE on here recently for a lot less than than retail, but not sure if we've seen any still production premiums for £3k/£4k off retail? (Apologies in advance if I'm wrong - I don't really pay much attention to games that I'm not interested in)
 
Den - aka Wolfgang said:
Not necessarily disagreeing, but genuinely interested; where are you getting your figures from here? £3k to £4k loss on say an £11.5k NIB premium seems a bit high? (That's like 30%+?)

I do remember seeing i think an UXmen LE on here recently for a lot less than than retail, but not sure if we've seen any still production premiums for £3k/£4k off retail? (Apologies in advance if I'm wrong - I don't really pay much attention to games that I'm not interested in)
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Depends if you take nib prices now or the nib price when a game came out. You’re not losing 30% on JP prem if you bought it when it was released but if you bought it in the last year at 11.5k+ you might be
 
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