Don’t think this is 100% correct - I thought they can use the VAT margin scheme which means they can accept a trade in from a customer and sell it on only charging lower VAT on any profit. Commonly seen with the second hand phone markets like backmarket.
Pinball info
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The OFFICIAL LICENSED 'moans about pricing' thread
- Thread starter VeeMonroe
- Start date
Spot on. But pinball dealers aren’t as clued up as, say, gold bullion dealers, who shift so much ££££££’s it’s essential to their trade.
Jib
Site Supporter
That's interesting, I didn't know that was how it worked.
Jib
Site Supporter
Maybe I'll pick up the audiobookit’s all in the vat handbook if you care to read it. 1134 pages of it
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
No apologies necessary, it's an observation, no right or wrong answer with this from seeing prices being sold publicly and it doesn't apply to every type of game, but a premium by the time it's delivered is near £12k, they tend sell for around £9k sometimes a little more. If you keep it for around 2 years price can drop to under £9k. Guns and roses being a good example. There the odd game thats sold in the £10k mark. People try and sell pros for £7.5k they don't seem to sell. I suspect they go for around the £7 mark or slightly below.
If the game was not a big seller aka stranger things first run, Ghostbusters prices seem to hold fairly high.
It's always a supply and demand thing, Godzilla there so many of them for a long time it will never be worth a lot. Still worth money as it's quality. I can see bond in the future being worth more than others as people don't see to buy it.
If I bought a new in the box I would expect to loose at least £3k, unless I got incredibly lucky and got a game that didn't sell and became rare, aka pirates Jersey jack. But I very much doubt harry potter will fall into that.
Jib
Site Supporter
I thought the vat thing was interesting. If nothing else it might mean part ex is worth doing whereas before I thought it wasn't even worth asking.
Thanks for coming back to me. And i agree; no right or wrong
I guess time will tell with recent releases, but I'm not sure if applying a blanket percentage or amount (aside ofcourse from saying something like "you lose a grand or something upon unboxing") is the best way to go about pricing (say if somone asks in the "how.much is this worth", as there are so many factors and yiu are spot on when you mention something like Godzilla, where something many went out and bought NIB. Brilliant game and even though a fair few have sold on here; when they do come up, people (from what I've observed) snap them up quick.
I do thing JJP g'n'r isn't a great example on price reduction though, as generally speaking, it's not a very highly regarded game (I overpaid maybe for the one i had; amazing light show, but gameplay wasn't enough for me in a 1 game collection)
Even when there are recent sold prices to compare to, it doesn't necessarily mean that's what the latest seller is going to let their game go for (or likewise, just because person A paid £X that month for let's say a Tron LE , it doesn't mean person B will be willing to pay that much) .
If a particular game holds a special place in someone's heart for one person, they are more likely to be up for paying more (especially if only one of that game for sale) or will value decent mods or upgrades, compared to others with say huge collections who are less precious about it all , prepared to wait, and o.k to just take a punt (if the price is a steal/desperate seller) on a game before trading with one of their pinball buddies or whatever.
I know I've probably just rambled on there and stated the obvious..... sorry!
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Well I know people who bought stern NITB tried to sell a top tier title and the machine is only 1 year old £2.5 to £3k loss. Unfortunately I would say that's a minimum, unless you sell after a month or two.Thanks for coming back to me. And i agree; no right or wrong
I guess time will tell with recent releases, but I'm not sure if applying a blanket percentage or amount (aside ofcourse from saying something like "you lose a grand or something upon unboxing") is the best way to go about pricing (say if somone asks in the "how.much is this worth", as there are so many factors and yiu are spot on when you mention something like Godzilla, where something many went out and bought NIB. Brilliant game and even though a fair few have sold on here; when they do come up, people (from what I've observed) snap them up quick.
I do thing JJP g'n'r isn't a great example on price reduction though, as generally speaking, it's not a very highly regarded game (I overpaid maybe for the one i had; amazing light show, but gameplay wasn't enough for me in a 1 game collection)
Even when there are recent sold prices to compare to, it doesn't necessarily mean that's what the latest seller is going to let their game go for (or likewise, just because person A paid £X that month for let's say a Tron LE , it doesn't mean person B will be willing to pay that much) .
If a particular game holds a special place in someone's heart for one person, they are more likely to be up for paying more (especially if only one of that game for sale) or will value decent mods or upgrades, compared to others with say huge collections who are less precious about it all , prepared to wait, and o.k to just take a punt (if the price is a steal/desperate seller) on a game before trading with one of their pinball buddies or whatever.
I know I've probably just rambled on there and stated the obvious..... sorry!
No rambling at all, the prices all depends on the customer, if you have 5 + machines and there modern stern premiums that at least £40k tied up, If you can afford £40k worth of man toys then your less likely to be that bother about price loss. Unfortunately pinball has become an expensive hobby. Its possible to glory days of cheap modern machines sub £2k might come back, but I suspect that's highly unlikely.
Tron LE is rare and is definitely a supply and demand pin, at one point they went for lunatic money in the covid bubble. I find the first person listing X title is the winner if x title hasn't been listed in a while, it sells for a top price, then others come on thinking that's the price, that's the price to someone actively looking and never finding. The Whale
All sterns LE customers 
Can't be much people moaning about pricing these days, on the used market anyhow, unless your selling
Yer some incredible games listed recently at really great prices, the great priced and top games always go quick, it's good to see.
Yer some incredible games listed recently at really great prices, the great priced and top games always go quick, it's good to see.
Definitely a buyers market at the moment and I don’t think we have hit the floor yet either!Can't be much people moaning about pricing these days, on the used market anyhow, unless your selling
Yer some incredible games listed recently at really great prices, the great priced and top games always go quick, it's good to see.
Pinballs are flooding the market. Constant new releases mean games stay in the limelight for only a month or so. Leaves people with games no one really cares about. Xmen seems to have died a death. Dungeons and Dragons the same. Star wars didn't really get going.
Prices are insane too.
Prices are insane too.
I'm glad I'm off the buying/selling roundabout, for the foreseeable at least.
The new star wars FOTE is fine but nothing really different in the pro from the 2017 star wars machine - original game was good, and new game is similar. I tried it more than most a few weeks ago with the assumption it'd grow on me, but it was just a good 'spike 2 game'. It didn't make a step up. Unfortunately it was in an arcade with Dune and Evil Dead, so fell flat on its face in comparison. New Sterns (TWD Remake) with their schoolboy joinery are not appealing to me. If I got a kitchen installed the way they are putting the cabinets together, I'd be livid!!! Considering new Sterns are more expensive than a kitchen, its a hard no! Sterns new questionable quality joinery might actually make second hand pins more desirable but i'm pretty sure from a business stand point, thats not what Stern shareholders are hoping for. Will be interested to see second hand Stern prices vs other manufacturers over the next few years if they contunue their cab design.
I think Stern will revisit this. Too much bad feedback. I didn’t watch the Gomez interview but watched Kaneda’s comment about gluegate..
Be careful saying that out loud around here some members on here will look down on you from there ivy towers…
Gomez interview said their existing structure on cabs was shipping air. I think we all understand that. Shipping fully built cabs means you can get for example 40 stacked in a lorry. If its just wood panels, probably 400 in a lorry, so it makes financial sense for them not to get the professionally built cabs and instead just have their staff cobble them together. The question Stern are asking is are the pin community willing to buy cheaply thrown together cabs at premium prices. Thats the unknown for them. Its a gamble, but if JJP, CGC, Spooky, Turner and Barrels dont follow and keep producing good quality cabs, Stern will lose ground. If people declare they value innovation and cabs built as solid as 90s Williams over TWD style woodwork,, Stern shareholders might need to tell the board this cheaper cab isnt what the market wants. That might be wishful thinking on my point!
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Evil Dead, Potter and Dune are so packed. Absolutely complete games.
I was actually laughing when playing ED this morning because it's just ridiculously grand. It just feels like another level of game, like pinball has taken another step forward.
These new games are as different from Stern spike 2 as WOZ was from Spike 1. We'll have to see if Spike 3 can get close but with the price Pinball machines are now, it needs to be a premium product and this Evil Dead is certainly that.
As for second hand, prices have definitely dropped and there are some real bargains.
I've sold 2 machines in the last week. It's a great time for someone getting into the hobby to buy their first game.
I was actually laughing when playing ED this morning because it's just ridiculously grand. It just feels like another level of game, like pinball has taken another step forward.
These new games are as different from Stern spike 2 as WOZ was from Spike 1. We'll have to see if Spike 3 can get close but with the price Pinball machines are now, it needs to be a premium product and this Evil Dead is certainly that.
As for second hand, prices have definitely dropped and there are some real bargains.
I've sold 2 machines in the last week. It's a great time for someone getting into the hobby to buy their first game.
Probably worth mentioning Turner Pinball at this point too. I assumed Stern would have copied Turners innovative glass lift off system but Stern do not appear to be innovating and instead just appeasing shareholders :'(
They should be leading the field and instead they are penny pinching. We (us pin community) need Stern to survive but they are not raising their game enough to make their model survivable (personal opinion - no offence meant to anyone). If they grab great licences but build what we see as ikea quality cabs, the buying public will want ikea prices. Theres nothing for Stern to gain from their perceived penny pinching cab design in the 16k LE market.
Pinball needs Stern as they are the baseline all other manufacturers are judged. Nothing wrong building cabs similar to ikea. I have Ikea furniture. They are sturdy enough but not good being moved about which is precisely what happens in pinball..
Ashbo
Site Supporter
Looking at the price of 6803 Bally games now where quality of construction was sacrificed to remain profitable I hope this isn’t what we are seeing with Stern.
I really like the 6803 games, great bang for buck on the 2nd hand market, but fixing structural issues is tougher.
Im not a NIB customer and probably never will be, but when buying 2nd hand, build quality is a consideration- I would expect a significant drop in price over time if the cab isn’t as solid as the rest.
I really like the 6803 games, great bang for buck on the 2nd hand market, but fixing structural issues is tougher.
Im not a NIB customer and probably never will be, but when buying 2nd hand, build quality is a consideration- I would expect a significant drop in price over time if the cab isn’t as solid as the rest.
Stern don't innovative any more reminds me of them in the late 2000 when they where the only player in town, without jersey jack and wizard of Oz, we would by now have self assembly home editions of pins charged at premium prices.
I totally agree about evil dead, shame they decided to make only a limited amount.
The market would be better serviced with less games at better quality rather than loads of average games and a couple of great games that very few can buy.
I totally agree about evil dead, shame they decided to make only a limited amount.
The market would be better serviced with less games at better quality rather than loads of average games and a couple of great games that very few can buy.
Jib
Site Supporter
I have Ikea furniture too, bespoke furniture isn't something that would bring me more joy in life. Ikea stuff looks decent enough for me and does the job. Nothing wrong with it for the price. But that's the important caveat 'for the price'.
Also furniture tends not to be moved about much or have parts that are vibrating inside or people slapping the sides frequently etc. Mostly it just comes down to cost though, I have a kallax unit in my pinball room that I put carpet sliders on the bottom, I have to slide it out the way to get the glass off one machine. If once day it falls apart because I've moved it too much, I'm not too upset because it's £50 to go pick up a new one.
On the flipside if Stern comes out with a banger most people will buy it anyway, they just need a great game.
That's absolutely true Fran.
If Stern announced a Keith Elwin Star Wars, everyone would buy it.
If the cabinets started losing shape after moving then that's a separate issue.
But King Kong shows Elwin is still at the top of his game with shots. He really just needs another movie license at this point. I'd have been very interested to see his version of John Wick.
Anyway, surely Stern get it now, put your best team on best licenses and sell games. If not, they'll lose out to games like Beetlejuice and Goonies.
That building in Godzilla 100%
Yep, and how many games was that ago?