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Black Knight Sword Of Rage VIDEO + first info

no, very relative to new pins like Kenny says, this is a forum not a mypinball blog
 
mark9 said:
Nobody wants to import, but the huge price difference is hard to ignore. Why is it so much more in the UK? Seems to me that the European distributors dropped their prices when the dollar weakened last year...the UK distributor put them up instead (Electrocoin I believe, not Phil).
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We are just unlucky in the UK as we have a big chain compared to US.

In US, games go from Stern - Dist - Consumer.

UK, its Stern - Exchange rate - VAT - Electrocoin - PH - Consumer.

In the good ole days, I would already have my name on an LE.

As for this game, speaker upgrades are going to be a must mod as the intensity in this game is going to be epic.

This could be right up there with Maiden.

Looking forward to Deadflip streaming it:)
 
Replay said:
We are just unlucky in the UK as we have a big chain compared to US.

In US, games go from Stern - Dist - Consumer.

UK, its Stern - Exchange rate - VAT - Electrocoin - PH - Consumer.

In the good ole days, I would already have my name on an LE.

As for this game, speaker upgrades are going to be a must mod as the intensity in this game is going to be epic.

This could be right up there with Maiden.

Looking forward to Deadflip streaming it:)
Click to expand...


Intra-state sales never used to attract tax, that's now changed, so most pinball buyers in the past would order from a dealer in the next state.

So games in the US are now attracting 8% sales tax on average, a few dealers still not doing this but it will catch up with them.

But if you look at EU the chain is the same, here is Germany:

Stern - Forex - VAT - KMS HANDELS GMBH - dealer - consumer.

The key issue is Pricing from Stern to Electrocoin and Electrocoin to dealer. where I believe Stern has hiked the UK price and Electrocoin sticks a huge margin on, the latter is sickening as they do absolutely nothing in the process!
 
mission65 said:
1 /
Let’s be honest you are involved in an attempt to sustain an illegal market Phil, so let’s not be too sanctimonious on this forum.

Bit cheeky but I'll let that one go. This once....

sorry Phil, maybe a bit cheeky but not meant to imply you are a willing participant.

2/
Each Country has a Stern distributor who is only allowed to sell into that Country, despite what EU says, Gary says you cannot sell outside your turf, end of. Yes go and argue it with EU but in the meantime, you are no longer a Stern distributor.

this practice I believe is illegal, and i am going to see if anything can be done about it, thank you for clarifying it Phil.

3/No, I am not the Stern distributor so I cannot match the prices from a Stern distributor. So if I am not mistaken, your company is a plumbing supplies company, how can you legally purchase a couple of pinball machines for said business?

my main business is a plumbing merchant Phil, and i can legally purchase pinballs through it as i have pinballs in my offices for all members of staff to use, as several people who have been to my premises can vouch for. I have only purchased 1 new pinball in my time which was through you, quite a few years ago now IM vault, it is currently still at my premises along with several second hand pins. I also play the pins i keep at my premises with customers

you imply that i have been acting in a improper way (
Bit cheeky but I'll let that one go. This once.... )


3/ Moving forward I want to purchase a new pinball or 2 through you and not europe for my offices , and i would like to support a home seller, my beef is not in any shape with you but i will not buy a pin through you that i can get from the EU for 1500 pounds less just with the current bad exchange rate, then if I decided to claim the vat it would be nearer 2k saving.
People are buying from you at 6400 taking the vat off and selling it within months to others who can not claim vat, If they do it through europe its 4100 -4300, big difference from UK prices to joe public
this practice does not sound legal to me , however the practice that Stern is adopting to my mind is also illegal and i hope i can find out through investigating the truth.
I will be asking my accountant if i can claim back the vat on them, and go with their advice ( I also get givin a 15k entertaining budget from key manufacturers i believe I can use) ( and let you know if you want ),

But more importantly I would like to be able to support you without taking a hit of up to 2k forcing me to go to Europe,
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A question I would like to ask. So if certain people are buying the pins NIB and then claiming the vat back and then selling them within a few months what if the revenue ask where are these pins that they should still own but sold.
 
Neil McRae said:
The key issue is Pricing from Stern to Electrocoin and Electrocoin to dealer. where I believe Stern has hiked the UK price and Electrocoin sticks a huge margin on, the latter is sickening as they do absolutely nothing in the process!
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This is the only relevant point as far as I'm concerned. If you're angry - which we all should be to be fair - it's Stern and Electrocoin who deserve the focus of that anger, not Phil.

I've been in the hobby for 14 or so years now and as far as I'm concerned Phil has done more for the UK pinball scene in that time than anyone else. He's the one fronting cash to bring these games over, he's the one taking them to shows and putting them in Tilt, and he's also a great guy to deal with when you want to buy NIB. I'm sure he's far more frustrated than any of us by the current situation in the UK - after all this is how he makes his living, whereas for the vast majority of us on this forum it's just a hobby that we are fortunate enough to be able to afford to some degree. If he could get machines for the same price that dealers in the EU could he'd be able to sell more machines - why wouldn't he want that?

Anyway, I agree that this thread has gone off topic long enough and I'm sorry to contribute to that further. Personally I'm at a point where I don't think that Sterns represent good value for money, so at this point I'd say I'm hesitant to support their current pricing model further. It's hard to reconcile the price I was paying a few years ago with what they are asking now, especially considering the ongoing cost cutting... but they're the biggest manufacturer and odds are if they secure a theme in the future I'm desperate to have I'll somehow talk myself into it. If it's not a theme I'm desperate to have then I'll look elsewhere. What else can we do?
 
BigBear77 said:
A question I would like to ask. So if certain people are buying the pins NIB and then claiming the vat back and then selling them within a few months what if the revenue ask where are these pins that they should still own but sold.
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how likely is that? and then you just point at the clapped out bride of Pinbot in the corner and say its that!
 
Just to try and steer this thread back again,
What does everyone think will happen to BK and BK2000?
Become more desirable?
Price increase on both?
People selling them to buy the latest?
People owning all 3 in a line up (this would be cool but probably a similar case to pinbot/jackbot)
Interested to hear the thoughts. There is quite the gap regarding pricing so will be interesting to see what people think
 
The 3 together would be cool
Selling a project original soon but don't think a LCD screen stern will booster sales of a 35 year old machine. The 2000 maybe?
 
Who will want an old worn out machine when you can have the all bells and whistles fresh improved version?
The originals will surely have dropped in price now but if you have a BK2000 I might be interested😜
 
JustLikeMe said:
This is the only relevant point as far as I'm concerned. If you're angry - which we all should be to be fair - it's Stern and Electrocoin who deserve the focus of that anger, not Phil.
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How do you necessarily know that Electrocoin are the ones putting the lion share of the premium on?

That said, Phil and everyone else has to make a living. Unless it's worth his time to do it then he could decide to do something else more profitable and then we'd all be worse off.

There are options for people who are savvy enough, e.g. buying from Euro dealers, with their associated risks etc. You don't get a warranty or peace of mind being able to pick the phone up to Phil or whatever. That peace of mind has a cost as it does in many other walks of life.

On the subject of this pin.. it looks more loaded than Munsters did, which is curious.
 
You do get a warranty from Europe , same as any new goods, just not the great warranty of 2 years Phil I believe gives himself,
So no risk there for the first year,
 
You have a 6 year warranty under the Consumer Rights act 2015. You just have to be able to prove that the fault isn't down to wear and tear.

Thats why I'm not worried about node boards on my sterns- SERVICE BULLETIN #189 | CORE NODE STABILIZATION Open PDF

Gives you all the proof that you would need to get the boards fixed or replaced, I've had three brand new iPhone 7's this year thanks to that law.

Neil.
 
Durzel said:
How do you necessarily know that Electrocoin are the ones putting the lion share of the premium on?
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I believe that Electrocoin are the reason that The Beatles Gold is £12k over here - but as always could be mistaken.

Neil McRae said:
Gives you all the proof that you would need to get the boards fixed or replaced, I've had three brand new iPhone 7's this year thanks to that law.
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That's one a month! What are you doing to your phones?!
 
JustLikeMe said:
I believe that Electrocoin are the reason that The Beatles Gold is £12k over here - but as always could be mistaken.



That's one a month! What are you doing to your phones?!
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yes

7 has a known mic hardware issue...
 
JustLikeMe said:
I believe that Electrocoin are the reason that The Beatles Gold is £12k over here - but as always could be mistaken.
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Beatles was £10k and that WAS down to what I was told to sell them at, didn't sell one. I did a deal with the Beatles museum in Liverpool to sell them, they needed £12k on it so asked that I mirrored the price, not like I was gonna sell any anyway apart from at the price they should be at, a normal Stern pro price!
 
Let's hope that this changes... I'm out of NiB....
 
kevlar said:
Rediculous isn't it? One of the top British bands of all time and can't sell a single pin here cos of stern and Co's greed.
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I find the whole Beatles thing utterly baffling. It's like a lesson in how not to sell a product.

Such a shame as the game as it stands is great fun to play.

But of course can't help thinking what could have been with a full on, original design. They had one shot with The Beatles theme and decided to do it like this :-(

Sent from Maxwells Silver Hammer using Tapatalk
 
But the game is great! So it’s not the worst they could have done!

Could be the license was so pricey and risk high this was the best option they came up with...

Joe K is no idiot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
huggers said:
Price point meant Beatles was DOA for me. I wasn't especially bothered they recycled Seawitch. Shame, very cool theme
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Same.

Would have been very tempted at pro price point.

And lets face it, it is a Stern pro.....
 
11 UK time so sarge will need his enema.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
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