OP
OP
Deleted member 2463
i have loads of games with them on and its just faded into the background for me. but then again I was used to the old Spike 2 PSU fan.
Pinball info
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It's surprising what noise the brain can just ignore. *
I used to live under the flight path to Heathrow and the noise of planes overhead eventually just went, with the exception of Concorde coming over - that was a noisy MF.
Noise from fans has never bothered me in the slightest.
* Also applies to boss telling you to do more work and get of Pinball Info
The transformer hum from some of my old games sounded like you could jump start the second big bang (if you get this reference I love you). The Spike fan noise is a bit daft in that apparently it's total overkill but it's never really bothered me tbh.
Fubar
Site Supporter
Noise never bothers me when playing. It's mildly annoying when I take a break and leave the pins in attract mode. My mancave is small and it's very quiet, which is part of the appeal for me after spending the evening with noisy little people 
Another little job done, LE speakers in.
3D printed my own panels in the end. Textured build plate makes the surface come out like powder coated metal appearance.
Will work on adding the led rings next.
Could just buy all this but enjoy doing it myself.
3D printed my own panels in the end. Textured build plate makes the surface come out like powder coated metal appearance.
Will work on adding the led rings next.
Could just buy all this but enjoy doing it myself.
Attachments
OP
OP
Deleted member 2463
one thing premium / LE owners turn down the coil that feeds the scoop to the top building. Reports that they are being deformed at the top and the ball gets stuck in it. Its actually set pretty high for what it does.
OP
OP
Deleted member 2463
don't forget the sub.
V0.91.0 - February, 17th, 2022
=============================
- Godzilla Multiball - Jackpot value only increased by 25K instead of 50K for building hits
- Godzilla Multiball - Jackpot value only increased by 50K instead of 125K for building through shots
- Godzilla Multiball - Jackpot boosting for subsequent multiballs reduced from 500K to 250K
- Tesla Strike - mode is now ended if you select to travel to a new City when it is currently running
- Annihilation Bonus - adding "ANNIHILATION DRAIN BASE AMOUNT" adjustment which is what the mode total will reset to for Annihilation Bonuses after draining
- Annihilation Bonus - fixed an issue with Bonuses not ever contributing multipliers after you drain out of them when starting them again in a new city
- Annihilation Bonus - fixed an issue with Annihilation multiplier not being applied properly sometimes
- Annihilation Bonus - Bonuses are now active during all Tier 2 battle modes
- Saucer Attack - added Destruction Jackpot +1X + Light Destruction Jackpot at 20 and 30 Saucer threshold
- Saucer Attack - 2 second grace period added
- Saucer Attack Multiball - updating intro video to include Xilien popup and better starting choreography
- Heat Ray - fixed an issue where pressing and holding the Action Button when the ball is draining will sometimes allow you to hold the button and keep the game from ending
- City Select - fixed an issue when playing a Tier 2 mode and completing it before completing a Tier 1 mode causes a Rematch message to be shown when a Rematch is no longer possible
- Train Awards - increased the score awarded from 15M to 50M for the award that happens where Super Train is on the Premium
- Planet X - flippers are now killed when the Xiliens are defeated when shooting into the scoop, Victory phase will begin by launching balls out of the trough again
- Planet X - fixed an issue where the Award and Jackpot light shows were hiding the active shots
- Planet X - fixed an issue where the music would cut out randomly in the Victory phase
- Planet X - fixed an issue where the Xilien transmission would be seen again if you win the Victory phase
- Planet X - removed the Xilien callouts in the Victory phase
- Imposter Battle - fixed an issue where it could be triggered more than once per lighting
- Callouts - adding many more callouts to the game
- Sound Effects - adding many more sound effect to the game
- Light Shows - adding many more light shows to the game
- High Score Champions - added the following high score champions:
- JET FIGHTER DESTROYER
- TESLA STRIKE CHAMPION
- POWERLINE ANNIHILATION CHAMPION
- TANK ATTACK MULTIBALL CHAMPION
- TANK ANNIHILATION CHAMPION
- BRIDGE ATTACK MULTIBALL CHAMPION
- BRIDGE ANNIHILATION CHAMPION
- GODZILLA, MOTHRA, AND RODAN VS. KING GHIDORAH CHAMPION
- GODZILLA AND JET JAGUAR VS. MEGALON AND GIGAN CHAMPION
- GODZILLA AND ANGUIRUS VS. GHIDORAH AND GIGAN CHAMPION
- DESTRUCTION JACKPOT CHAMPION
- CARNAGE BONUS CHAMPION
- MONSTER RAMPAGE CHAMPION
- SAUCER DESTROYER
- SAUCER ATTACK MULTIBALL CHAMPION
- EARTH BONUS CHAMPION
- PLANET X MULTIBALL CHAMPION
- HEDORAH CHAMPION
- TAIL WHIP CHAMPION
- ALLY CHAMPION
- MOTHRA CHAMPION
- RODAN CHAMPION
- ANGUIRUS CHAMPION
- HEAT RAY CHAMPION
- TRAIN CHAMPION
- LOOP CHAMPION
- CONSECUTIVE LOOP CHAMPION
- UNIQUE SKILL SHOT CHAMPION
- CITY COMBO CHAMPION
- SECRET COMBO CHAMPION
- IMPOSTER BATTLE CHAMPION
- Insider Connected - added the following Achievements:
- Skill Shot - Make the Skill Shot
- Mecha Skill Shot - Make a Mecha Lane Skill Shot
- Secret Skill Shot - Make a Secret Skill Shot
- Super Secret Skill Shot - Make the Super Secret Skill Shot
- Rage Combo - Complete a Rage Combo
- King Ghidorah Win - Score 100 Million+ in Battle vs. King Ghidorah
- King Ghidorah Big Win - Score 500 Million+ in Battle vs. King Ghidorah
- Megalon and Gigan Win - Score 30 Million+ in Battle vs Megalon and Gigan
- Megalon and Gigan Big Win - Score 100 Million+ in Battle vs. Megalon and Gigan
- Ghidorah and Gigan Win - Score 100 Million+ in Battle vs. Ghidorah and Gigan
- Ghidorah and Gigan Big Win - Score 500 Million+ in Battle vs. Ghidorah and Gigan
- Bridge Attack Multiball - Super Get a Super Jackpot in Bridge Attack Multiball
- Saucer Attack - Destroy a Saucer
- Double Saucer Attack - Destroy 2 Saucers at once using an alley pass to the pop bumper
- Saucer Attack Multiball - Start Saucer Attack Multiball
- Saucer Attack Multiball Saucer Jackpot - Get a Saucer Jackpot in Saucer Attack Multiball
- Saucer Destroyer - Bronze - Destroy 15 Saucers - Lifetime
- Saucer Destroyer - Silver - Destroy 50 Saucers - Lifetime
- Saucer Destroyer - Gold - Destroy 100 Saucers - Lifetime
- Planet X Start - Start Planet X Multiball
- Planet X Complete - Complete Planet X Multiball
- Planet X Victory Complete - Complete Victory phase of Planet X
- City Combo - Collect a City Combo
- City Combo Set - Collect all the City Combos in one city
- 5 City Combos - Collect 5 City Combos in a single game
- All City Combos - Collect all the City Combos in all the cities
- City Combos - Bronze - Collect 10 City Combos - Lifetime
- City Combos - Silver - Collect 25 City Combos - Lifetime
- City Combos - Gold - Collect 50 City Combos - Lifetime
- Secret Combo - Collect a Secret Combo
- All Secret Combos - Collect all 10 Secret Combos in a single game
- Imposter Battle - Level 1 - Collect an Imposter Battle award
- Imposter Battle - Level 3 - Collect 3 Imposter Battle awards in a single game
- Adjustment Changes:
- added "ANNIHILATION DRAIN BASE AMOUNT" default:20M min:10M max:100M
- added default score / count adjustments for new high score champions above
- System - Updated to V3.07.0 on OS: V2.6.0
- Updated to nodeboard firmware/protocol v0.84.
OP
OP
Deleted member 2463
yes a pile of new achievements added also and yes I doubt there are many new specific features to come, although one of them is usually a challenge mode (I hope for Pinclash later this year!)
Karl playing last night. Watch out for what the games does when he restarts :LOL:
Neil.
Karl playing last night. Watch out for what the games does when he restarts :LOL:
Neil.
I think there’s some more to come, maybe mini wizard modes, the inserts above Planet X aren’t coded yet are they? Terror of Mechagodzilla, King of the Monsters and Monster Zero. I maybe wrong though as I don’t have a GZ yet!
My thoughts exactly there's at plenty of specific inserts unused as of yet - Godzilla power ups & tailwwhips surely can't just be a bonus addition - King Caesar.
I expect much more to come yet
I reckon we're at 60-70% completion currently based on what Keith said previously
OP
OP
Deleted member 2463
I had forgotten about those inserts!
Had my first game on Godzilla today, and I thought it was great. Some really good shots, love the theme, the Toho clips are awesome. Really fun game, definitely a one more go type of game.
This interview with Keith Elwin has been really interesting. They eventually start talking about the design shot by shot.
He mentions the next update is going to include something about power ups, which I don't know if that's new info or not... No details but I'm interested in what it ends up being. Also at some point the right outlane will be programmed for something. I hope its a babi Zilla ball save!
Also a little talk about AIQ. One thing I found interesting was how he regrets how confusing placing the gems etc. is, when he really just wants people who aren't trying to play at top level to just collect the gems and ignore the added effects.
Therefore in Godzilla he tried to place the strategic and more complicated decisions (like deciding when to move cities and stuff? I don't know I'm **** at Godzilla
) deeper into the code, so newbies can just work on fighting the Kaiju and hitting things.
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I know the Pinside top 100 gets stick.
GZ at # 1 spot for a while now.
How long will it stay there before the usual MM moves back?
Having played GZ recently, I think it’s 500% better than MM.
GZ at # 1 spot for a while now.
How long will it stay there before the usual MM moves back?
Having played GZ recently, I think it’s 500% better than MM.
Personally, I don’t think it will.
As I only started playing pinball in July last year, I’ve played Godzilla and MM within a couple of months of each other. MM really *is* that good, even in 2022 (as is AFM), but Godzilla is better.
Medieval Madness is 23yrs old!
Of course new games will be better. Technology has evolved and designers have taken parts from pinball layouts over the last 20yrs and recycled them.
Godzilla is a great game, but you cannot compare the games from today to 20yrs ago.
Godzilla has 519 votes, MM 2,000 so if / when GZ gets around that amount it should be more balanced.
MM & AFM were the best games to own back then. Theme, toys, code..
Of course new games will be better. Technology has evolved and designers have taken parts from pinball layouts over the last 20yrs and recycled them.
Godzilla is a great game, but you cannot compare the games from today to 20yrs ago.
Godzilla has 519 votes, MM 2,000 so if / when GZ gets around that amount it should be more balanced.
MM & AFM were the best games to own back then. Theme, toys, code..
Not really, no.
I’ve been to Funland loads of times because I’m in London and go into the centre frequently. So, I’m not a pinball expert (I’m not a good player), but I’ve played the new Sterns currently in production A LOT.
I’ve also played MM and AFM both in person and on the Williams App.
1. TMNT is not better than MM/AFM.
2. The Beatles is better than Seawitch, but not £1,000s better, and Seawitch is not as good as MM.
3. ST is MM/AFM with sh*ttier artwork, a less charming theme, and worse production quality - plus modes. Because, of course, the *only* good pins have modes (NOT).
4. Mando is mediocre, so not as good as MM. The artwork alone makes me want to puke. I’m being a bit harsh here, but the desert-themed artwork and inserts don’t integrate visually at all, and the plastic ramps are terrible - it looks like something from the dark ages of Stern in the 2000s.
5. Rush is utter mediocracy incarnate. Genuinely, 90% of the contents of FlipOut is as good or better. I mean, obviously, the entire club is filled with pins that *someone* likes, but that’s at least 49 pins that are as good or better from various eras.
6. Led Zeppelin has a deservedly mediocre reputation.
The only things in there that are even close to MM/AFM are Godzilla and JP2, and JP2 has a reputation for being less approachable to novice players than AFM/MM.
So, why do you think new games are better? The *only* way that new pins are automatically better is they have better lighting and sound, and LCD screens. There’s no reason to suppose the gameplay is better. No one thinks Led Zeppelin is better than Twilight Zone just because it has nice lights.
Moreover, with the exception of Keith Elwin, who is using his world championship knowledge and modern design tech to really shake up what‘s possible on a playfield, most of the designers are exactly the same crowd who were designing back in the 90s when pinball was a bigger thing. So, yeah, you’re getting the same recycled stuff they were putting out back then, but with nice modern twiddly bits.
I guess the final word comes from my five-year-old son who, when presented with an entire building full of pins, has spent up to an hour playing Gigi, an EM from the 1960s. It doesn’t even have music or a proper launcher, never mind anything else. That just goes to show that even a little kid, who has been brought up not knowing anything except video games/the internet, is swayed more by kinetic satisfaction than RGB lights.
I’m not saying ALL games are better, but there have been games that are better and Godzilla is one of them.
In 23yrs of pinball design and innovation, of technology and designers copying bits and bobs from previous designs it is hard to produce something new out of the dimensions of the plank of wood.
Yeah @VeeMonroe you have been in pinball all but 5minutes , and with respect you have mentioned 6 games produced out of 23yrs of 3 or 4 games a year and only mentioned Stern games above.
I own MM & AFM, and they tick a lot of the boxes of what makes a pinball machine for me.
But after years of owning them I can see that in their time they were the GOAT but now there are new KIDS on the block, and Elwin is doing some amazing stuff.
In 23yrs of pinball design and innovation, of technology and designers copying bits and bobs from previous designs it is hard to produce something new out of the dimensions of the plank of wood.
Yeah @VeeMonroe you have been in pinball all but 5minutes , and with respect you have mentioned 6 games produced out of 23yrs of 3 or 4 games a year and only mentioned Stern games above.
I own MM & AFM, and they tick a lot of the boxes of what makes a pinball machine for me.
But after years of owning them I can see that in their time they were the GOAT but now there are new KIDS on the block, and Elwin is doing some amazing stuff.
One of the things I’ve noticed from ranking tables in other hobbies (most notably tabletop games) is that there are some games that end up being really high ranked because almost *everyone* likes them. Then there are games that are objectively better for some people, which end up slightly below the top ranking.
I, personally, actually rate Fish Tales higher than Medieval Madness. I didn’t realise I did until MM came back into Pinball Republic and our FT is currently out of order, and I just opted to play Fish Tales for ages…
The issue is that MM is really really accessible to a lot of players because of the big moving castle, but - obviously - it’s got enough challenge for more experienced people too. It’s just a combination of art, sound, theme and gameplay that really works for lots of people - even if it’s not everyone’s favourite pin.
Again, in board gaming, there are games that I find painfully milquetoast that are really highly ranked because you can bring them out at an event and pretty-much everyone will be relatively happy. Not that they’re the best game ever, but that people with different levels of skill and experience, and ability to comprehend rules, can all have a relatively good time. It’s a difficult trick of chemistry to pull off, and it doesn’t come along that frequently, and - to be honest - it drives you mad after you’ve played (Wingspan - spit) a bunch of times when you’d rather be playing something else… But, there we are. That’s how things roll.
I agree that Elwin is doing some great design and I expect him to continue. However, most of his other designs are not as accessible as Godzilla.
The rules of A:IQ are pretty opaque, for example, and most of the designs don’t have something obvious to hit by a n00b. That doesn’t mean they‘re not really good, it’s just they’re not as good for a very wide range of people.
You can really tell that, for my five-year-old son, Godzilla is incredibly accessible because of the interaction of theme and mechanics - in the exactly the same way as MM. He just understands he’s a big monster, he’s destroying a city and he has to hit the building/bridge. And he can get a multiball and quite high scores just by taking that approach. He’s now doing a bit better on understanding the deeper ruleset, but there’s an obvious way into the pin on first play. My understanding is that Deadpool is the same - it’s popular because it has deeper play, but also little kids and n00bs can get the Little Deadpool multiball without too much effort, and it’s a really obvious target to hit.
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Fubar
Site Supporter
You're confusing opinion with fact. Just because *you* (or your kids) happen to like one game more than an other, doesn't make that the universal truth.
I wasn’t even arguing that
It’s obvious from the Pinside rankings that the average person who ranks pinball machines on a public forum happens to like MM a lot and GZ more than MM.
As per my comments above, that doesn’t mean that everyone thinks MM is the best pin ever. It just means that a very large number of people happens to like MM quite a lot, even if they like other stuff more. I’m one of those people. It’s a phenomenon I’ve also seen in board gaming, see above, where something milquetoast and moderately appealing to a very large number of people ends up with a very high rank. Otherwise known as ‘appealing to the lowest common denominator’.
I agree with 1, 2 and somewhat 4 but the others...
ST's artwork IMO is great, and it's even better with the UV upside-down. Do I think it should've been charged as an upgrade? No! Is it awesome? Yes! I find the theme of ST much more enticing than MM, but I also love the show. As far as production quality goes we all know Stern had somewhat of a dark age with pooling but if I recall correctly ST didn't suffer too badly. I'm not entirely sure what the criticism of modes is - I've always liked having something to progress obviously and modes do that for me over flashing the objective on the DMD like MM. I think there is something to be said for the more free-form approach of MM over ST, but I think the modes in ST are actually well integrated.
Mando is a good pin. It's not going to blow anyone away, but it's not bad either - yet I'd still own it over MM and I think there's more depth there. I'd put it in the same tier as TMNT for me. With artwork being so subjective there's little point in me saying that I like the art - but I do. I massively agree with you on the plastic ramps though, they'll never be as good as wire-forms.
I'll admit I haven't played Rush yet but I have watched it a lot so take my opinion with a pinch of salt (I also quite like Rush as a band). Rush looks like a good pin - better than Mando. Good flow, nice shot through the pops and while a bit of a technical nightmare the double scoop is cool. It also has code from Ray if I remember correctly, but I think it should scale better than LZ code-wise as it seems less tournament focused. I could see Rush becoming like Aerosmith - pretty much slated on release but now rather sought after. I think Rush is one to watch, and I'd take it in it's current state with unfinished code over many WPC-era games.
Now - Led Zeppelin. I've defended this machine before, but I'm going to get one thing out of the way - it's not a good value proposition at Stern prices, that much is fair. It's a bit bare. But - the actual game is VERY fun. Great flow, the centre shot is kinetically satisfying. Worthwhile drop target completion for Icarus multiplier, cool shot off the upper flipper and the right ramp I love. Great code - slightly too tournament heavy for me but I've grown to like it. I love that the scoring changes based on where you are in the song - it's not a pinball machine that plays music, its a music pinball machine. Odd choice to not include Stairway but hey-ho. I'd say it's predicament is exactly the same as Beatles. Is it fun? Yes! Is it too expensive for what it is? Yes! Is it a good machine? Yes!
It’s not a criticism of modes. Modes are great.
I’ve noticed an attitude on here with some people, and I’ve seen the same with some serious board gamers, where depth is seen as the quality mark of a game. So, there are lots of board games that have easy rules and are very social and group dependent, which are seen as ‘gateways’ into ‘more serious’ games with 50-page rulesets that are played largely with limited human interaction and in silence. The whole attitude is ‘as you become a connoisseur of games, you inevitably move on a path from simple and social to more complex and ‘serious’’. I find this silly - I’d far rather play an eight-player party game with four rules than six hours of economic modelling that takes an hour to explain - and I owned 800 board games at one point.
I’ve seen hints of the same with the modern Sterns where they‘re seen as ‘more suitable for a home environment’ because of the complex programming and rulesets. For me, I also see lastability in a game where you need to pull off a series of difficult shots - not just where there’s just different stuff appearing on an LCD - especially in a competitive and social environment like a tournament, where spectating fun shots is part of the joy.
Most of the modern Sterns don’t have better toys than something like Twilight Zone so their superiority is largely in the area of rules complexity, where they’re obviously way better than 90s mode-based games. It’s not there’s something wrong with that. It’s just that the advancements in the last 23 years have been mostly in computer power, screens, lighting and code handling - so, there’s no reason to suppose something that was never trying to compete on those criteria would be worse.
Hope that makes sense.
