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Weird WH20 issue - NOW FIXED !!!!!!!

pinballmania said:
May well be a red herring. But you're missing the theory. You can make a square out of any two points on diagonally opposite corners of a square. From one of them go up or down to the row that the other one is on. This is one of the other corners. Do this for the opposite corner.

We've established its not the shooter switch so you need to test the others that come into play. Ie the trough and out hole switches.

You also look like you have a rogue switch on the coin inputs on the left hand side. I can't see how this will cause issue, but worth disconnecting any coin mech.
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Thanks for your help andy - I understand the switch theory but are we saying that from the shot below that the square will indicate that the opposite diagonals in this instance would be switch 71 and 68, 71 and 67 and 71 and 66 as there are potentially three squares ??

IMG_0289.JPG
 

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Yes. But if you should be able to see the effect in switch test, once you open all the switches you can by taking the balls out etc, then test each trough switch separately. There may be nothing to see, but if there is switch ghosting you should be able to replicate it in switch test. If nothing, then we look for other causes, eg flaky opto or vibration induced switch closure.
 
pinballmania said:
Yes. But if you should be able to see the effect in switch test, once you open all the switches you can by taking the balls out etc, then test each trough switch separately. There may be nothing to see, but if there is switch ghosting you should be able to replicate it in switch test. If nothing, then we look for other causes, eg flaky opto or vibration induced switch closure.
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Ok cool thought that was what we were talking about. Will do the tests at lunch and report back

Thanks again.

Cheers Kev
 
pinballmania said:
Yes. But if you should be able to see the effect in switch test, once you open all the switches you can by taking the balls out etc, then test each trough switch separately. There may be nothing to see, but if there is switch ghosting you should be able to replicate it in switch test. If nothing, then we look for other causes, eg flaky opto or vibration induced switch closure.
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One quick question you suggested blocking the opto in the mine - will this not cause it to go intol goldrush mode anyway as it will think there is a ball in there?
 
newdos said:
One quick question you suggested blocking the opto in the mine - will this not cause it to go intol goldrush mode anyway as it will think there is a ball in there?
Click to expand...

You need to check that particular switch state changes....
 
pinballmania said:
Yes. But if you should be able to see the effect in switch test, once you open all the switches you can by taking the balls out etc, then test each trough switch separately. There may be nothing to see, but if there is switch ghosting you should be able to replicate it in switch test. If nothing, then we look for other causes, eg flaky opto or vibration induced switch closure.
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OK andy I have done what you suggested - all the balls out and tested all of switches, they all come up on the matrix without any ghost switches at all. I fixed the coin door switch it was just the microswitch arm jammed. with the balls back in it still happens as before. I tried only loading one ball in the trough, and the first two times it ejected it didn't do it!!! but on the 3rd time it did. Next game with only one ball it did it on all three ejects - it just gets weirder!!!

Any suggestions ?

Cheers Kev
 
I'd go back and visually check every wire to switch lug and check they are attached the correct way round eg white-colour to non banded diode side of switch and green-colour to the other switch lug and check the banded side of the diode is attached as well.
 
newdos said:
One quick question you suggested blocking the opto in the mine - will this not cause it to go intol goldrush mode anyway as it will think there is a ball in there?
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In test mode. See if it thinks it can still see the beam.

Trying to establish whether it's a real or virtual problem with the mine opto.
 
pinballmania said:
In test mode. See if it thinks it can still see the beam.

Trying to establish whether it's a real or virtual problem with the mine opto.
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in test mode if i shove a screwdriver handle down the mine the opto registers if thats what you mean?
 
Here's the pic of the switch matrix on my WH20 as promised with 3 balls in the trough Kev.1429032818293-667924252.jpg
 
aaronhicksuk said:
Here's the pic of the switch matrix on my WH20 as promised with 3 balls in the trough Kev.View attachment 15667
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cheers man still no joy though - mine is the same as yours except the one far left was a stuck coin door switch and the far right one is big foot opto as he isn't working neither (but I know what that is I think)

Back to the drawing board!!!!:mad:
 
The switch matrix test should reveal the problem. Go through all the switches again, but look for switch activity other than the switch you are testing. Bang the playfield to add some vibration, like when the ball is launched. A stray wire may be shorting, and causing a phantom switch closure
 
pinballmania said:
The switch matrix test should reveal the problem. Go through all the switches again, but look for switch activity other than the switch you are testing. Bang the playfield to add some vibration, like when the ball is launched. A stray wire may be shorting, and causing a phantom switch closure
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gonna try this at lunchtime andy, but not holding my breath as I have already gone through all switches and brayed hell outta the playfield and all switches seem to be solid as a rock!!!

as a thought as it clearly has something to do with the ball trough could it be related to any soenoids ie eject hole etc ?

Cheers Kev
 
pinballmania said:
The switch matrix test should reveal the problem. Go through all the switches again, but look for switch activity other than the switch you are testing. Bang the playfield to add some vibration, like when the ball is launched. A stray wire may be shorting, and causing a phantom switch closure
Click to expand...
OK Andy tested every switch and opto with balls in, and balls out (not me, the trough!!) and I get no ghost switches at all. I then played a few games and another anomaly I have picked up is the start button isn't registering every time, yet when I go into switch test it's flawless - could this be pointing to something else a bit more sinister. When I played the games I would say 95 % of ball ejects start the goldrush but not every time

It just gets worse :(

Cheers Kev
 
Is it worth lookin at swapping CPUs boards from my other machines TZ, STTNG or TAF ?
 
GrizZ said:
I was wondering if it is maybe some sort of corrupt code. I'm sure there us some way of doing a full memory wipe/reset isn't there ?? @pinballmania
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All I can say Grizz it worked fine before the full shop was done - so the cpu board has been sat on the bench without any batteries for 10 months
 
@pinballmania the plot thickens - took the apron off so I could see the ball trough switches more easily and manually held down the micro switches when the ball ejects onto the playfield - low and behold its still happens so this seems to eliminate the ball trough of any wrong doing. So, I just decided to disconnect the violet-red wire from the ball serve solenoid to see what would happen - amazingly, as I hit the start button (and no ball is ejected as its disconnected) and I then manually eject a ball the problem goes away - I did this repeatedly and never got the issue. Soon as I reconnected the solenoid it has come back again

So it seems to be the activation of the ball eject solenoid ????

Work that one out!!!!

Cheers Kev
 
Pudsey pinball said:
You sure all your connections are correct both under pf an in back box???
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positive mate - been through it about ten times now and everything works perfect another than this issue - all optos switches and solenoids all do as they should except the ball serve solenoid triggers the lost mine!!!

I am gonna trace the wiring all the way back from the solenoid and see if there is a short across to something else on the way to the backbox - that's all I can think of doing unless the legend comes up with something

Never seen anything like this before!!!

Cheers Kev
 
On the power driver board, check the catch diode 1N4004 that's connected to J130-2
If its open circuit you'll get a heck of a voltage spike rattling around the board that could trigger all sorts of things.
 
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