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Champions League of Pinball

Wayne J said:
How many of the people complaining about the format, or offering suggestions as to how to run a comp have actually got off their ar$es and ran a comp themselves?
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I ran one for 'That Other Arcade Game' back in the day. It was absolutely hilarious and we all had a great time, but that was in spite of my efforts and was mostly because it's hard not to have a great time and a laugh when you're all teenagers/early twenties. It was utterly textbook on how NOT to do a tournament:
  1. The machine being used wasn't configured as expected on the day, leading to a change of how the fees had to be handled and the prize pool - nightmare
  2. I completely and utterly fecked up my pre-made brackets charts leading to some very dodgy hand-made scribbles later on
  3. The venue was not happy with our attendance and made us spread out across the arcade/bowling alley inbetween games; leading to no ability to spectate the games
  4. Eventually someone got their bag searched and the overzealous security guard, having found a bottle of water, threw out ALL of the players mid-tournament and banned everybody
I dare say I would get at least one of the aspects right nowadays (verifying machines, having my tournament layout correct ahead of time, and making sure the fecking venue is compliant and happy with the event.)
But it definitely taught me a few hard lessons without damaging my reputation - even though I ended up playing seriously in Korea I was part of a group of resident jokers on the game, and therefore having an event end with everyone getting banned for life by the bowling alley was almost expected, the height of comedy and worth it for people - but I have in older times thrown in a hand where needed to try and stabilise a tournament going a bit south because I know how rough it can be. Add in a very stressful job much later in life trying to manage live-streamed media events with a non-technical and unrealistic boss, and non-technical venues and guests, and the result is that I will be the last to say that these things are easy to run.

That's where I'm coming from where I express doubt about the viability of a high-level tournament if the player response is like the thread. Too many people not on the same page. If you do go ahead with something like this @Wayne J (or indeed anyone else) throw me a message and I'll be there to represent the bottom rung of skill.
 
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I appreciate the efforts of @Wayne J and others that do stuff keep this silly hobby alive.

Whenever you do anything that is not for profit, you spend your own time and money trying to do the right thing. There is no proper hierarchy. Folk cannot really be fired for failing to deliver on their promises

I have been involved in a flat management company in the past. I run a little village cinema club. It is all the same really. The vast majority of users are appreciative and supportive. One or two bad apples can leave a very sour taste though

A few guys know my shed and that my 12 games are well set up. If folk want a fresh one day tournament for about [32] folk or more if you think the shed could properly handle it, I would offer my shed for it.

All I would ask is that

1 it is structured so weaker players who make the trip get a decent minimum number of games. The latter stages can be structured to get points for those who are into them

2 we try to avoid bottlenecking by drawing games out of a hat rather than forcing folk to play certain ones in rotation

3 zero tolerance for anyone damaging the games
 
I have a bit of time I could support in putting something together, I have no experience of this, so we would need someone to help out there, but if there is a group looking to get together, and some grunt work needs doing, I am pretty competent and good at organising... (he says)...

Also, just checked out the IFPA website, and Martin Ayub is the UK Director for this, surely he can give some guidelines on what a point ranking competition can look like in the U.K that can be hosted at Daventry?

Q: The rankings are weighted towards the North American players and everyone else is at an disadvantage.

A: We try to make the rankings fair to everyone. Tournaments are sorted into two classes: Major and everything else. If there is a 30 player tournament in Las Vegas, Vancouver, Austria or Tokyo — they all have the same ability to be worth the same amount of points based on the WPPR formula. Many confuse the fact that North America has many tournaments where other countries, like India, may have only a few or none at all. Unfortunately, there really isn’t much we can do about this and it’s just the reality of the current state of things with competitive pinball. Hopefully, more events will begin to popup worldwide to give others the chance to compete. It is unfair to weigh rankings in other countries heavier, simply because they have few chances. The qualifying system for the World Pinball Championship does take this into account by setting aside 2 spots for each eligible country. This allows those players that may not be as high on the global list to qualify by focusing on being highly ranked on their country list.

So to me, that means there only needs to be a tournament with 30+ people attending at Daventry, signed off by Martin Ayub and it's a go? Surely qualyfying day one.

30 down to 16

16 to 8

8 to 4

4 player final.

Final 8 can be made into a "SUPER LEAGUE" with a big buy in and more games?

I don't understand the politics of this all, and maybe this is a good thing as it seems pretty simple to me. Pre-registrations and groups determined prior to the event. Free to "buy in" but the "Super League" element costs? Non-competing people forfeit their spot.

Am I being naive here?
 
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James said:
Am I being naive here?
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The problem with operating inside of the IFPA means that the people that do travel across Europe to collect WPPR points are, rightly, not going to be at all pleased to have their efforts side-stepped in this fashion. Similarly, it's the difficulty of competing on those terms is what prompts the desire to create another side-line tournament that excludes out-of-UK influence.

Making everybody happy is not going to happen from the looks of things, sadly.
 
Operating under IFPA means you get out what you put in... The guys who travel Europe at their own expanse to play and received the awarded points deserve them and the ranking position

What I cannot stand is people who belittle others achievements... As they feel they begrudge they aren't ranked higher or feel their skill level is better etc.

I like playing in comps but I cannot stand the childish behaviour I have witnessed and the lack of respect between two human being

I feel any competition created should be equal and fair to anyone who enters and makes it worth the trip for them.

Its about not everyone not people who feel they are the elite...
 
In a moment of clarity, I've realised the question we (or maybe I) should be asking is - was there something inherently wrong with the UK pinball league that's already being run? I always thought that was pretty definitive for the UK.

I personally got distracted by the appeal of a high-stakes side tournament - I'm a bit of gambler and I love stupid showboating like that. But they're sideshows and I thought the UK league was the main event?
 
I think the UK pinball league is brilliant. I have attended events in the Midlands and South East this year.

Good mix of social v competitive play
Everyone gets a good afternoon of pinball

I hosted a Midlands event this year. Polite people. No damage to my games or house.
 
hmm not really sure what to say, seems alot of reply's!! personally id be more interested in this type of high stakes tourney if it ran during the day but then i guess it would clash witht the open (if thats on this year..?) I like to play against the other high end players but in the evening i also like to relax with a boozy drink or 6 and play (sometimes) badly on the old fav's. entering for this would mean sacrificing that part of the show which for me is also fun. £100 entry is high but i could be tempted to have a go if it goes ahead.
 
Tilt_Birmingham said:
...I like playing in comps but I cannot stand the childish behaviour I have witnessed and the lack of respect between two human being
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Sounds like one or two people could be tainting your attitude to the whole competitive pinball scene, and that's probably best sorted in person rather than in public. As one of the few available venues for hosting ad-hoc public tournaments it would be a real shame if people got the impression you're against tournament pinball.

As others have said, the vast vast majority of tournament players, and pinheads in general really, are honest decent people. I also think there's nothing in your post that disagrees with what Wayne was proposing, unless the gripe is that top players should not be able to compete against each other, which just seems...weird. Ultimately any tournament will end up with a smaller number as it progresses towards a final right?
 
Wizcat said:
Sounds like one or two people could be tainting your attitude to the whole competitive pinball scene, and that's probably best sorted in person rather than in public. As one of the few available venues for hosting ad-hoc public tournaments it would be a real shame if people got the impression you're against tournament pinball.

As others have said, the vast vast majority of tournament players, and pinheads in general really, are honest decent people. I also think there's nothing in your post that disagrees with what Wayne was proposing, unless the gripe is that top players should not be able to compete against each other, which just seems...weird. Ultimately any tournament will end up with a smaller number as it progresses towards a final right?
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Not against tournament pinball as long as its fair for all... However pinball players and forum members make up very little of my revenue, so when it comes to Tilt its about making pinball fun for the general public that visit my place.

My issue with a high stakes pinball is it alienates people, if you want to go to such an effort on something it should be towards encouraging new people into the hobby
 
PBrookfield said:
In a moment of clarity, I've realised the question we (or maybe I) should be asking is - was there something inherently wrong with the UK pinball league that's already being run? I always thought that was pretty definitive for the UK.

I personally got distracted by the appeal of a high-stakes side tournament - I'm a bit of gambler and I love stupid showboating like that. But they're sideshows and I thought the UK league was the main event?
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well in the leagues I've attended in the UK we have this format that you have 5/6 machines that are picked for you and you get one change to get your best score. And then thats it.

In the US, most evening leagues I've attended are matchplay each player gets 5 rounds. Most events are play your best 5 games and play as often as you can find the time for and pay for.

In my view the US format is much better.

Cheers,
Neil.
 
I am not a competitive player at all but that's just me. If a group of players want to get together throw money in a pot and then thrash it out to see who comes out on top to take the money pot then why not.
I am sure that if it could be put together at a venue like Daventry then it would create a interest with a lot of the pinball community . I for one would love to see the best players in the UK battling it out to take the prize fund and be crowned the best Player 2018.
 
Tilt_Birmingham said:
if you want to go to such an effort on something it should be towards encouraging new people into the hobby
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Something like this?

Also,

If I "want to go to such an effort on something", it should be my decision as to where I direct that effort.
If you want to go to the effort, you can direct it how you want.
 
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PBrookfield said:
In a moment of clarity, I've realised the question we (or maybe I) should be asking is - was there something inherently wrong with the UK pinball league that's already being run? I always thought that was pretty definitive for the UK.
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I will continue to run the UK League as is and actively encourage as many new people to take part, I just thought there was room for an additional tournament for the higher level players as an aside.

However it seems that people take offence at not being included - it's getting like school sports day - let's have certificates, medals and trophies for everyone who takes part.
 
Neil McRae said:
well in the leagues I've attended in the UK we have this format that you have 5/6 machines that are picked for you and you get one change to get your best score. And then thats it.

In the US, most evening leagues I've attended are matchplay each player gets 5 rounds. Most events are play your best 5 games and play as often as you can find the time for and pay for.

In my view the US format is much better.

Cheers,
Neil.
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I think there's room for many different formats, but historically there has been little enthusiasm for a pay to play format. It being seen as the player with the deepest pockets wins (or at least qualifies).
I think there's a little truth in that, but there are different skills required in being able to walk up to a machine and hit a massive score first time, as opposed to being able to discard your 'practice' games and only count your best. What isn't open to debate is that the best players are able to step up and qualify on a single game format, and generally take less 'practice' games to hit a top score in pay to play formats. They are also the same players who reach the finals in the majority of the comps, whether it be in the UK, Europe or the US.

The Pinball Battle at NLP/Play Expo last year seemed to go down well and hopefully will be resurrected the next time it's held in a suitably large venue with enough machines.
 
Wayne J said:
The Pinball Battle at NLP/Play Expo last year seemed to go down well and hopefully will be resurrected the next time it's held in a suitably large venue with enough machines.
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I do love this format having become familiar with a very similar one with Pinball Arcade. When it's free to play or quite low cost (or charity as for Pinball Battle) and there are a larger number of machines that are part of scoring, it comes down to skill and strategy more than luck. Spend time trying to boost a score on a weaker machine or spread your time around your existing games? Play a game you're weaker on in the hopes of pulling out something great? Play safe strategies or play risky strategies, gambling on the possibility that you'll waste a lot of time with nothing to show for it?

Easily my favorite format.
 
Instead of prize money how about a similar comp with rounds etc but when you win your 'best of 3' you have to down a pint! Constantly winning gets you more ****ed and the more difficult it will be to play (and see) until you're up against another top player who has just downed as many beers as you. Survival of the fittest or bladder.

Doesn't prove anything and quite pointless but fun nevertheless.
 
I'd love to see a new pay to play super-duper tournament (in addition to all the other current/new tournaments and league finals of course) that announces one true "UK Pinball King" or Queen (for that year..!). But I understand this may not be easy as the best players may not even enter. I'd try my luck for £50 but not £100 though..!

Loving the debate guys, keep it clean!
 
Tucks said:
Instead of prize money how about a similar comp with rounds etc but when you win your 'best of 3' you have to down a pint! Constantly winning gets you more ****ed and the more difficult it will be to play (and see) until you're up against another top player who has just downed as many beers as you. Survival of the fittest or bladder.

Doesn't prove anything and quite pointless but fun nevertheless.
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Love it, great idea for something different. Count me out after 2 pints though, I'm a lightweight...!
 
Wayne J said:
I think there's room for many different formats, but historically there has been little enthusiasm for a pay to play format. It being seen as the player with the deepest pockets wins (or at least qualifies).
I think there's a little truth in that, but there are different skills required in being able to walk up to a machine and hit a massive score first time, as opposed to being able to discard your 'practice' games and only count your best. What isn't open to debate is that the best players are able to step up and qualify on a single game format, and generally take less 'practice' games to hit a top score in pay to play formats. They are also the same players who reach the finals in the majority of the comps, whether it be in the UK, Europe or the US.

The Pinball Battle at NLP/Play Expo last year seemed to go down well and hopefully will be resurrected the next time it's held in a suitably large venue with enough machines.
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NLP format was great and fair, I'd like to see that format of tournament more often... Also its for charity so even better
 
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