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Raza buying details and Deeproot website live!

Moonraker

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i’ve not been around the pinball scene long enough to know all of the history, so it’s interesting to hear these snippets and try to piece together the story

I can’t believe that deeproot would get so far down the line and then find all this out.

it isn’t really rocket science: if you invent something yourself, make sure you are not infringing on someone else’s IP.
If you buy something in, make sure the seller actually owns the IP, it doesn’t infringe any third parties IP, and that the seller indemnifies you if it does.

From what I have understood of them, it doesn’t look like they had a clean start though, but even so, they could have sorted any legal issues out way up front before starting to even r&d spend.
If you really want history then check out:
https://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/jpop-end-game.20731
 
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Neil McRae

Neil McRae

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And all the suckers that preordered with money did it again with dead root - when will people learn.


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Neil McRae

Neil McRae

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And all the suckers that preordered with money did it again with dead root - when will people learn.


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CHRIS B PINBALLS

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Anybody throwing deposits into companies that have no track record of producing anything yes are suckers but you could say the same about stern putting money down on an unseen game is a gamble could be mega could be a lemon but one thing is you are guaranteed to get it
 
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Neil McRae

Neil McRae

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so various bits of deeproot online started to disappear and be deleted on linkedin and other places. Rumours seems to point that all money from deeproot funds have been stopped and that Robert has bigger issues than pinball.

hope that gold mining in Africa finds a nugget soon.
 
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Neil McRae

Neil McRae

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no other recourse - the two people who got their money back must be super happy. Just wondering who had money down here ? anyone?
 

Pick Holder

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If you did put £1K down- it is not the end of the world if it is lost. If you buy a NIB stern pin and open the box, you have lost more than that. I do not see people on here putting up their hand to ridicule. I do not like the idea of anyone loosing money anywhere in the world - but let's face it - why would you pay IN FULL UP FRONT anyway?

This is not the first time this has happened and it will not be the last - who remembers the first MM remake (Wayne Gillard)?

Like I said on another post - J Pop is looking for a job. Stern are probably looking for a new designer. Let's face it - he is good at designing pins, just not anything else.
 

myPinballs

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If you did put £1K down- it is not the end of the world if it is lost. If you buy a NIB stern pin and open the box, you have lost more than that. I do not see people on here putting up their hand to ridicule. I do not like the idea of anyone loosing money anywhere in the world - but let's face it - why would you pay IN FULL UP FRONT anyway?

This is not the first time this has happened and it will not be the last - who remembers the first MM remake (Wayne Gillard)?

Like I said on another post - J Pop is looking for a job. Stern are probably looking for a new designer. Let's face it - he is good at designing pins, just not anything else.
Good post Phil. Yes we all remember the mm/cc remake first attempt!
 

cyberkryten

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A bit like Neil, it's something I've been thinking about for when I step back a bit, but I'm not sure I'll be pumping $$$ into it in a commercial sense.

I'm interested on the software side, have a few themes I'd love to see made and some ideas for gameplay, training modes and some other game mechanics/handicaps for home use to allow competition between players of different abilities (ie so I can beat Josh!).

However, the mechanical side scares the crap out of me from a production, reliability and maintenance side of things.
 
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Neil McRae

Neil McRae

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If you did put £1K down- it is not the end of the world if it is lost. If you buy a NIB stern pin and open the box, you have lost more than that. I do not see people on here putting up their hand to ridicule. I do not like the idea of anyone loosing money anywhere in the world - but let's face it - why would you pay IN FULL UP FRONT anyway?

This is not the first time this has happened and it will not be the last - who remembers the first MM remake (Wayne Gillard)?

Like I said on another post - J Pop is looking for a job. Stern are probably looking for a new designer. Let's face it - he is good at designing pins, just not anything else.

Wat? Sorry man but that’s some man maths that?!

If buy and open a NIB Stern - you’ve had something for your money!

Every single JPOP game has required the team to bail it out - he’s a ****ing liability and should be in Prison.


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Homepin

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Wat? Sorry man but that’s some man maths that?!

If buy and open a NIB Stern - you’ve had something for your money!

Every single JPOP game has required the team to bail it out - he’s a ****ing liability and should be in Prison.


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A bad businessman maybe but in prison? I can think of a lot more people that should be in prison over him.

The large majority of money spent on the Deeproot enterprise (exceptionally BAD name from an Australians perspective) seems to have been from investors NOT pinball enthusiasts.

Investors that trade shares, buy and sell Enron etc because they 'might" make a buck - they might not. I see that style of business as gambling, many don't.

Some pinball people take things a bit too much to heart and at face value without looking at the bigger picture. So what if DR spent millions on a venture that might appear to have failed? I suspect none of us has any idea what the 'real' end game is here with an investor driven company. Perhaps it is all a deliberate ploy for an elaborate tax write off scheme? Nobody commenting, including me, has the inside knowledge that is needed to make that call.

How many pinball sales were actually made and money taken from people hoping to get the latest 'shiny toy'?

Maybe Deeproot never had any intention of producing a single thing? Maybe they did? None of us are likely in a position to know the real answer to that.
 
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Neil McRae

Neil McRae

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No prison is right for sure. JPOP took money for games he didn’t deliver then took more money for different games to pay for the games he didn’t deliver - that’s fraud.

deeproot took on JPOP’s liabilities from zidware and as well as 100+ odd people who have put $1000+ down there are a load of folks who paid in full for games almost 5+ years ago that are still waiting for games.
 
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Homepin

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No prison is right for sure. JPOP took money for games he didn’t deliver then took more money for different games to pay for the games he didn’t deliver - that’s fraud.

deeproot took on JPOP’s liabilities from zidware and as well as 100+ odd people who have put $1000+ down there are a load of folks who paid in full for games almost 5+ years ago that are still waiting for games.

But here is the confirmation that it’s in the toilet:

9cb1dd3627d9a08a43e7c5dc3b52f47f.jpg
And you are involved in this process where exactly? Paid a deposit? Perhaps in full? No? Then why are you so interested? (for clarification - the rest of this post IS NOT aimed at you - it's general in nature).

It never ceases to amaze me how some people get all wound up over things that don't involve them. Obviously there isn't enough going on in their lives so they need to seek out things to be upset/offended/outraged by.

It's the same as being "offended on someone else's behalf" if a person says something not perfectly, politically correct.

Perfectly OK to be interested in what's unfolding but to be so invested that some suggest that people should be jailed! Really? - Is that enough? How about we hang, draw and quarter all in charge, and Jpop for good measure? What about tar & feather? That good enough?

It seems pretty clear to me that some people don't have much going on in their lives and need something (ANYTHING) to be outraged by!
 

cyberkryten

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(our Porsche Taycan pinball did as well but that was a limited run for Porshe themselves, not for public sale).

So any rough indicator of what the cost of getting this sort of run of a machine done on the hardware side of things (with customer supplied artwork/rules/code) - just interested to see what a reasonably basic machine in a limited run costs and wondering at what point (10/50/250) machines the price-per comes down on the manufacturing side. I know a lot of costs are in the art and coding and how that all works, but I've no idea on the "building stuff" side of things. Oh, and it is absolutely fine if the answer is 'none of your business' by the way.
 
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Neil McRae

Neil McRae

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And you are involved in this process where exactly? Paid a deposit? Perhaps in full? No? Then why are you so interested? (for clarification - the rest of this post IS NOT aimed at you - it's general in nature).

It never ceases to amaze me how some people get all wound up over things that don't involve them. Obviously there isn't enough going on in their lives so they need to seek out things to be upset/offended/outraged by.

It's the same as being "offended on someone else's behalf" if a person says something not perfectly, politically correct.

Perfectly OK to be interested in what's unfolding but to be so invested that some suggest that people should be jailed! Really? - Is that enough? How about we hang, draw and quarter all in charge, and Jpop for good measure? What about tar & feather? That good enough?

It seems pretty clear to me that some people don't have much going on in their lives and need something (ANYTHING) to be outraged by!

It never ceases to amaze me that folks post about their amazement of other peoples behaviours! Isn’t the world a glorious place ;)


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Homepin

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So any rough indicator of what the cost of getting this sort of run of a machine done on the hardware side of things (with customer supplied artwork/rules/code) - just interested to see what a reasonably basic machine in a limited run costs and wondering at what point (10/50/250) machines the price-per comes down on the manufacturing side. I know a lot of costs are in the art and coding and how that all works, but I've no idea on the "building stuff" side of things. Oh, and it is absolutely fine if the answer is 'none of your business' by the way.
Porsche supplied art to our guidelines and used a playfield layout/template that we have as a "standard" for short runs like this. All of the hardware and wiring / PCBs / lamp boards are fixed in this design. The ONLY thing they changed from our standard offering was the artwork and they gave us a "rough outline" of the gameplay they wanted - which we followed about 60% (some things they suggested simply won't work because they don't understand exactly what is required during multi-ball as one example). We changed all sounds, music and designed and added a 27" LCD but that was designed at our expense as we wanted to add that in future machines.

Five machines were close enough to US$9K each ex factory door. There was a VERY small profit in that.

If you wanted to have your own layout, that would involve a LOT of additional costs that would blow this price out of the water. Custom lamp PCBs, wiring harness design along with programming (VERY expensive to change).

We also built a "one of" machine for a large pet food company in the USA. They had ideas of putting them into stores as they own a few hundred pet stores around the country. This was US$50K for one machine and to be honest, we lost money making it! I wouldn't take on a single machine project again under US$100K.

Building pinball machines is difficult, time consuming and at the end of the day VERY expensive to develop. Our current machine draws from our experiences to date and there certainly are some things we have been able to save on during the development phase. My guess (I haven't looked at the spreadsheet that grows daily because I'm not game) is we have spent about US$300K to date designing it and only have two half-ar-se-d prototypes to show for that although production parts are now being made as well. Machine production will start in a month or so as we have finalised many things and they have started being built with the final bits to come later.
 

AlanJ

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@Homepin. i really like what you share with us. no chance of getting any of that sort of info out of stern or jjp. I helps any of us would be “have a go hero’s” take a true reality check

Also the haggis pinball guys latest factory tour video is a good reveal
 

Horsey

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@Homepin
I apologise if this has been addressed Mike as I'm a bit out the loop but this new game you speak off. Is it that Chinese Zombie one? Or a completely new game?
If it is the latter, is there any photos yet? Or do you have any pics of the zombie game?

Probably not the thread to be discussing your game though I understand
Cheers
 

Skippy

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Reminds me of Mr Angry on Steve Wright in the afternoon, Hello This is Mr Angry, i'm very very angry.......
Also has the guy commited an offence by breaking into the website? hmmmm SQL injection against the website?
 
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s000m

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Reminds me of Mr Angry on Steve Wright in the afternoon, Hello This is Mr Angry, i'm very very angry.......
Also has the guy commited an offence by breaking into the website? hmmmm SQL injection against the website?
Don't think he truly understands the ramifications of indicting himself on illegal data harvesting.
 
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