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Wanted Popeye

J.C.Rox

Site Supporter
5Years
Joined
Apr 11, 2015
Messages
2,932
Location
Haddington East Lothian
Well I don't like marmite soooo...

I just godsk try one of these agg agg agg!! Don't mind doing a bit of work to bring it up to scratch but a barn find is above my skill set.
 
Made him an introductory offer but no reply and it's pick up only and im planning on using Martin on anything over an hour away and stairs are involved blah blah. Just after a nice easy pick up, maybe from someone on the saaf coast...;)
 
Yeah but 4 pics in dim lighting? Will keep my eye on it but would rather find one from here, my rose (beer) tinted glasses make me think everyone here will be more honest than if I buy blind off the fleabay..
 
This one sold for £970 as not working! Mine will be at the upcoming pinball show in Ely but it's not for sale either. Not yet anyway!
 

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It had the flat plastic Bluto head and was missing the silver cleats from the bow, which has also turned to a butterscotch colour. I got mine in Dec 14 from York off eBay as fully working. I then had to replace the trough boards, left flipper button board and 5v rectifier. Oh, and the left animal diverter assembly was completely unsecured so although it moved it didn't divert the ball. But other than that it was fully working!
 

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It had the flat plastic Bluto head and was missing the silver cleats from the bow, which has also turned to a butterscotch colour. I got mine in Dec 14 from York off eBay as fully working. I then had to replace the trough boards, left flipper button board and 5v rectifier. Oh, and the left animal diverter assembly was completely unsecured so although it moved it didn't divert the ball. But other than that it was fully working!
See this is why I would rather go forum than ebay. I don't even know what the silver cleats are!! I do know about the flat face and that is a no no in my book!
 
My machine came with them but the one that sold "for parts or not working" at £970 didn't have them. On the TNT Amusements video on YouTube he uses cabinet door handles as a makeshift replacement so I suspect original items are hard to source.


See 9:55 for cabinet handles.
 
Thanks @rowansalger1973, I like those tnt vids, he's a bit over keen on the leds IMHO but It's always nice to see other pins close up. Def got my want-o-meter up a notch watching that! God the flat face looks so lame by comparision!!
 
I haven't played the game so have no opinion but here are Steve Richie's thoughts on Popeye, bit of a read but interesting:

Barry Oursler designed the game, but it was Python's theme, including
the weird euphorics-influenced eco-connection.
Python was not, and never will be a game designer. He will SAY
anything, truthful or not. This is not to say that he didn't come up
with many good ideas for the games he worked on, but he never drew
anything more than sketches except when doing the artwork for the
playfield, back glass and plastics. A pinball designer makes a full
scale drawing of his games with all components shown. He does the
fitting of components and at least some of the mechanical
engineering. A pinball designer chases down and looks after every
component and mechanism on his game. He deals with a BOM, management,
and other members on the team. Barry was the designer of Popeye.

The game designer was not always the team leader of the pinball teams
at W/B/M. If another member of a team was more suited to carrying the
vision and dealing with other members, then he would take the reins
with the designer's permission. Barry liked to let others on his team
lead things. Steve Kordek, Chris Granner and Python were probably
the most influential on Barry's teams to my recollection.

Popeye was the game that followed ST:TNG. Popeye didn't make money on
the street. The theme was stinky and the geometry was funky, chunky
and clunky. No real players liked the hidden shots and generally poor
visibility that allowed function to follow form. Its hard-to-play
upper playfield didn't win it any friends. Graphics and art were just
nasty, and speech, sounds, script and music were less than stellar.
Popeye was expensive to build and carried hefty tooling and mold costs
that were never amortized. Williams lost money on Popeye, something
that hadn't happened for many many years prior.

The real reason that Popeye is/was universally despised was that all
of the Williams/Bally/Midway distributors were signed up to take
minimum amounts of every run of machines we manufactured. They were
not upset when they had to buy minimum quantities of ST:TNGs and other
titles, but they were very angry that they had to take a minimum # of
Popeye machines. To make matters worse, Willy raised the price of
Popeye! The theme was ridiculous. Who cares about Popeye? Popeye
was nothing in Europe (our second through fourth ranked markets) even
when it was fresh. Not one distributor cared for the license. We who
were in charge should have stopped the game, because we all knew that
it was a steaming pile well before it was released. There were
politics involved, and I seem to recall that we couldn't get anything
on the line quickly enough if we did not release Popeye to production.

The distributors were screaming and making threats of lawsuits and
dumping Willy as a represented manufacturer. Eventually Williams
canceled the minimums clause in their contracts with distribs. Popeye
had a very bad stigma attached to it for a long time which, of course,
was played up by our competitors. Some people say Popeye was "the
beginning of the end" of pinball at Williams. It was hard to sell
large runs of games after Popeye. The failure of pinball cannot be
blamed on Popeye, but it sure didn't help our business.

I do not agree that less people like wide bodies than regular width
games. They were harder to design because of the slightly larger
spans of time required for the ball to get to the targets. The worst
wide body width was Stellar Wars/Superman/Pokerino. Until I/we moved
the flippers and slings into the same familiar location as a narrow
body, they were really horrible in my mind. Some designers went crazy
with more flippers and more drain space between them! The outer orbit
shots were actually miserable to make because the ball was so far down
the flipper end in order to hit them. The ball doesn't carrying much
speed or power at that angle. The widest games are the ones that I
never want to make again. The Superpin width was/is much better. I
can design in at least one more shot in a Superpin width, and more and
larger toys can be utilized.

I do have to admit that my favorite playfield size to play and create
within is the standard 20-1/4" X 46" I would like to make a longer
(48") game someday, but it is not a high priority.

I don't enjoy dumping on others games, but don't try to tell me that
Popeye was a good game. If you enjoy playing it, that's certainly
your prerogative. Most Williams engineering/management folks don't
want to think about Popeye. It was an awful time in Williams
history.

Regards,

Steve
 
I haven't played the game so have no opinion but here are Steve Richie's thoughts on Popeye, bit of a read but interesting:

Barry Oursler designed the game, but it was Python's theme, including
the weird euphorics-influenced eco-connection.
Python was not, and never will be a game designer. He will SAY
anything, truthful or not. This is not to say that he didn't come up
with many good ideas for the games he worked on, but he never drew
anything more than sketches except when doing the artwork for the
playfield, back glass and plastics. A pinball designer makes a full
scale drawing of his games with all components shown. He does the
fitting of components and at least some of the mechanical
engineering. A pinball designer chases down and looks after every
component and mechanism on his game. He deals with a BOM, management,
and other members on the team. Barry was the designer of Popeye.

The game designer was not always the team leader of the pinball teams
at W/B/M. If another member of a team was more suited to carrying the
vision and dealing with other members, then he would take the reins
with the designer's permission. Barry liked to let others on his team
lead things. Steve Kordek, Chris Granner and Python were probably
the most influential on Barry's teams to my recollection.

Popeye was the game that followed ST:TNG. Popeye didn't make money on
the street. The theme was stinky and the geometry was funky, chunky
and clunky. No real players liked the hidden shots and generally poor
visibility that allowed function to follow form. Its hard-to-play
upper playfield didn't win it any friends. Graphics and art were just
nasty, and speech, sounds, script and music were less than stellar.
Popeye was expensive to build and carried hefty tooling and mold costs
that were never amortized. Williams lost money on Popeye, something
that hadn't happened for many many years prior.

The real reason that Popeye is/was universally despised was that all
of the Williams/Bally/Midway distributors were signed up to take
minimum amounts of every run of machines we manufactured. They were
not upset when they had to buy minimum quantities of ST:TNGs and other
titles, but they were very angry that they had to take a minimum # of
Popeye machines. To make matters worse, Willy raised the price of
Popeye! The theme was ridiculous. Who cares about Popeye? Popeye
was nothing in Europe (our second through fourth ranked markets) even
when it was fresh. Not one distributor cared for the license. We who
were in charge should have stopped the game, because we all knew that
it was a steaming pile well before it was released. There were
politics involved, and I seem to recall that we couldn't get anything
on the line quickly enough if we did not release Popeye to production.

The distributors were screaming and making threats of lawsuits and
dumping Willy as a represented manufacturer. Eventually Williams
canceled the minimums clause in their contracts with distribs. Popeye
had a very bad stigma attached to it for a long time which, of course,
was played up by our competitors. Some people say Popeye was "the
beginning of the end" of pinball at Williams. It was hard to sell
large runs of games after Popeye. The failure of pinball cannot be
blamed on Popeye, but it sure didn't help our business.

I do not agree that less people like wide bodies than regular width
games. They were harder to design because of the slightly larger
spans of time required for the ball to get to the targets. The worst
wide body width was Stellar Wars/Superman/Pokerino. Until I/we moved
the flippers and slings into the same familiar location as a narrow
body, they were really horrible in my mind. Some designers went crazy
with more flippers and more drain space between them! The outer orbit
shots were actually miserable to make because the ball was so far down
the flipper end in order to hit them. The ball doesn't carrying much
speed or power at that angle. The widest games are the ones that I
never want to make again. The Superpin width was/is much better. I
can design in at least one more shot in a Superpin width, and more and
larger toys can be utilized.

I do have to admit that my favorite playfield size to play and create
within is the standard 20-1/4" X 46" I would like to make a longer
(48") game someday, but it is not a high priority.

I don't enjoy dumping on others games, but don't try to tell me that
Popeye was a good game. If you enjoy playing it, that's certainly
your prerogative. Most Williams engineering/management folks don't
want to think about Popeye. It was an awful time in Williams
history.

Regards,

Steve
Thanks for that, passed the time whilst I wait for my order at Pizza express, pregnant missus demanded I go pick one up. Pizza that is, not popeye, I made that decision all on my own. Now I'm actually keener to get one of these controversial big b******ds! !
 
Yeah this gets hauled out all the time when Popeye is under discussion. Steve is awesome, and my god he knows pinball.... but in this case he is wrong ;) Popeye is undeserving of its rep.

Sent from my Sinclair C5 using Tapatalk

@GrizZ - GRIZZ - did you see that @GrizZ ?? From the very Pinball god himself... Let me read that back to you again... And you Mr @Fintan Stack ...

Let me run that past you again....

"Popeye didn't make money on
the street. The theme was stinky and the geometry was funky, chunky
and clunky
. No real players liked the hidden shots and generally poor
visibility
that allowed function to follow form. Its hard-to-play
upper playfield
didn't win it any friends. Graphics and art were just
nasty, and speech, sounds, script and music were less than stellar.

Popeye was expensive to build and carried hefty tooling and mold costs
that were never amortized. Williams lost money on Popeye, something
that hadn't happened for many many years prior."

:D
 
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