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Energy prices - gone nuts.

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I have an unvented storage tank. It has two immersion heaters, middle and bottom, two temp sensors and it is plumbed to the gas boiler. I can switch between grid, solar initiated or gas heating. All options are smart and controlled from my phone.
I sense a lot of what the mixergy offers you have in a modern unvented tank.
Just the “heat what you need” is unclear from a tech perspective.
 
I have an unvented storage tank. It has two immersion heaters, middle and bottom, two temp sensors and it is plumbed to the gas boiler. I can switch between grid, solar initiated or gas heating. All options are smart and controlled from my phone.
I sense a lot of what the mixergy offers you have in a modern unvented tank.
Just the “heat what you need” is unclear from a tech perspective.
AFAIK, heats from the top of the tank taking advantage of heat rising, takes cold water from below and sprays it on top of the hot this allows it to hear a % of the tank. It can be programmed to track your usage and only heat what you'll need .
 
No
Well done on your set up I'm very jealous 🙂

Have you heard of the Mixergy smart water tank @Colywobbles
but I have a mate well up on automation via RasPi which I am hoping he can help. Today I put 2 oil filled radiators in situ one in the pin room the other in the front room for on the fly heating rather than export. At the time I was exporting 4KWh to the grid.F8F375BD-F545-4AC2-B7F4-B16CC95AAABF.jpeg

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That does sound like a new approach to hot water heating. At present, the hot water is only heated to shower/bath temp at the times we would have them. The rest of the time, the water is hand or washing up temp.
For my family, it has been hard to predict what we needed for heating. Each room can call the heater to turn on for its own requirements. This means no unnecessary heating but possible short cycling on the boiler, so less efficient. Footprint mode, when room sensors see a person and then heat the room up, do not work as the rooms take too long to adjust.
We instead, each room has a schedule that matches the expected use. But have a shower early and you may find the rooms are not warm.
This year, rooms will be colder when not expected to be used and we may even stop using some rather than heat them for short use, such as the dining room.
 
That does sound like a new approach to hot water heating. At present, the hot water is only heated to shower/bath temp at the times we would have them. The rest of the time, the water is hand or washing up temp.
For my family, it has been hard to predict what we needed for heating. Each room can call the heater to turn on for its own requirements. This means no unnecessary heating but possible short cycling on the boiler, so less efficient. Footprint mode, when room sensors see a person and then heat the room up, do not work as the rooms take too long to adjust.
We instead, each room has a schedule that matches the expected use. But have a shower early and you may find the rooms are not warm.
This year, rooms will be colder when not expected to be used and we may even stop using some rather than heat them for short use, such as the dining room.
Do you need to close the doors to different rooms quite religiously for this to work? I like the idea of this setup, but my combination of kids and pets (and wife tbh) would mean that'd be difficult to ensure.
 
It certainly works better if you do shut doors but we have the same kids and dogs issue and therefore they are usually left open. It just means a warmer room will lose heat and a cold set room will get some. Still much more efficient that heating them all.
 
Days like today (****ing miserable) is when that 7.5p per kw night battery top up would be extremely helpful! :) Solar covers background usage but that's about it, if i turn any big usage device on it would be game over for battery lol. As its not had chance to fully charge either will hit grid at some point in evening when it runs out.
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It certainly works better if you do shut doors but we have the same kids and dogs issue and therefore they are usually left open. It just means a warmer room will lose heat and a cold set room will get some. Still much more efficient that heating them all.
Been investigating and I think a system like this might pay for itself in a reasonable time for me - at current oil prices I think about 2-2.5 years if it saves me 10% on my bills, which is hopefully a realistic estimate. Which brand of system do you use? The one I've looked at is the Drayton Wiser setup - I think I could do it for about £450-500 with TRV's on most radiators. I think the Hive system is similarly priced, but I've read about lots of issues with their smart TRVs, with a common opinion being they're so bad as to be useless. Tbh, just TRVs that allowed me to time-schedule 50% of the radiators in the house would be enough functionality (basically turn off radiators upstairs during the day), but it doesn't seem possible to buy a system that simple, all I could find was a full 'Smart' system including thermometer, TRVs and a hub/controller box, or nothing.
 
Hi

I investigated a few but went with Genius Hub Link after talking with their CTO about security and resilience. I didn't want a system were one device failure could leave me without heating. The take an encrypted backup of the system config, which means they can send out a replacement central controller configured to run as per the failed device. But each device can also be overridden so you still have hot water and heating.

The system is very configurable, you can use hidden offsets to dial in the real room temperature and if adjust if the system overheats or underheats. It uses external temp stations to allow you to decide to preheat a room and works out when it needs to start heating to make the room that temperature when you want it. In an Edwardian detached house, with 44 cm thick brick walls, it is hard to work out from one day to the next when you would actually need to start heating the kids bedroom for it to be warm at bath time.
The electrical sockets join in the wireless mesh communication channel, no wires needed for anything other than the sensor for the water tank to a tank controller.
My plumber became an approved fitter by doing an online course, then the CTO let me do the course, it was pretty easy to learn how to fit and I fitted it with my plumber.
My system also controls heating hot water via gas and electricity (immersion), as well as electrical radiators in the log cabin.
I am pretty sure we have had a warmer home experience by heating where we are wanting heat, as well as repaid the cost by saving on gas.
 
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I’m having all radiator valves replaced soon and plan to add the WiFi valves so can control which rooms get heated in morning / day / evening (as usually just me in office in day) but kids in there rooms in evenings etc.. so would be nice to control where the heat goes so boiler does not need to work as hard / long in the day etc.. Iv got Google nest being installed at moment do the valves connect to this? Or have there own app / schedule?
 
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I’m having all radiator valves replaced soon and plan to add the WiFi valves so can control which rooms get heated in morning / day / evening (as usually just me in office in day) but kids in there rooms in evenings etc.. so would be nice to control where the heat goes so boiler does not need to work as hard / long in the day etc.. Iv got Google nest being installed at moment do the valves connect to this? Or have there own app / schedule?
I've not seen a Nest version of the TRVs, but after researching yesterday, for other manufacturers they generally link to a 'smart' thermostat (the degree of smartness differs across manufacturers). With more searching last night, I did find that Danfoss offer TRV's called Danfoss Eco that can be installed independently of a central thermostat or any other central 'smart' controller. The benefit of them is the system will be £200-250 cheaper overall, so payback much sooner; the downside is that they only allow basic scheduling of each radiator, rather than each TRV being able to activate/deactivate the boiler as needed (I'm not sure how much this type of extra smart functionality would really save tbh though) and setup is individually over Bluetooth - so stood right next to them I guess.

I've not quite made my mind up over going with 5 of Danfoss Eco for a couple of hundred quid, and just scheduling upstairs off during the day, or doing 80& of all my rads with the Drayon Wiser system for around £500. It's one year payback versus 2.5 years if oil stays the same price as now - double those times if it returns to its average over the last decade.

The system Calimori used, which does look like probably the most comprehensive on the market, would be over a grand for my house (at its most basic with just smart TRVs and their central controller), so the payback time would be 10 years at today's oil prices, and the same applies to the Honeywell system. That's 20 years if oil prices return to their 10 year average. Personally, I can't justify that type of investment as I don't intend to be living in this house or this country in 10 years - I think the best way to save on the heating bill long-term is to move somewhere warmer!
 
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If you use a tumble dryer then best get a heat source pump one, I’ve had one for years and paid for itself when prices were much lower.
They use about 75% less power than conventional tumble dryers, my son just bought one and is impressed.

I should upgrade to a heat source pump immersion heater as it has similar savings but as it’s our only hot water source it’s a lot more to go wrong than an element.
Anyone got one?
 
Never heard of a heat source tumble will deffo look into that as it’s a huge power draw in our house along side the washing machine as my gf just loves to wash **** 24/7 lol

Regarding the valves thinking about it they don’t really need to be connected to the nest / boiler actually. They can just run a basic schedule that turns most of the house off on weekdays and opens them up on evenings then maybe few more rooms heated all day weekends etc.. I’ll have to try and monitor how each room gets used. But they can certainly run there own schedule.
 
Never heard of a heat source tumble will deffo look into that as it’s a huge power draw in our house along side the washing machine as my gf just loves to wash **** 24/7 lol
We have a Samsung one... I think it was £650 when we got it, however the misses loves it and it much easier on the pocket after the initial outlay. Been going strong for 2 years with no issues at all.

Will keep us going till the Garden is all moved about and we can stick a rotary line in (yes i know, very 80's) which will save £££ in the summer...
 
Our system was costly but it ticked all the boxes for what I wanted. The main goal wasn’t to save money but to run more efficient, with targeted heat where we wanted it.
If it is cold during the night, rooms I want to protect will call the boiler to come on. If all the rooms are at temperature, the boiler will stop heating.

If the valves are just on a temp+time schedule, then the boiler will still be running even when a room doesn’t need it. Modern boilers should detect the return flow and stop heating, or an open loop through a bathroom radiator will exist.
 
Modern boilers should detect the return flow and stop heating.
Yeah, ours is like this, so simply closing off unnecessary TRVs when not needed will allow heated water to remain hotter for longer, hence saving fuel. How much, and how much versus having a smart system whereby the TRVs call the boiler for heat too seems to be guesswork, though I'm erring towards the fully smart system I think.
 
Ordered one of these it’s specs are FAR more efficient then our current 2kw sucking piece of ****!


Now looking at Smart Valves, I’m liking the look of the Tado ones, not the cheapest but the reviews are good and app looks very powerful and appears easy to setup, they appear to use some sort of wireless zigbee network or something rather then each one connects directly to your router so hopefully far easier to setup seeing as id need like 12/13 of them lol. I’m hoping once the main controller is setup they all just automatically connect and appear on the app?? Dunno but would be nice lol (usually how those little mesh networks work) much like the Decos just buy a new one plug it in and it sorts it self out no faff :D

Last winter we used quite a chunk of gas hopefully this winter we can be a bit more intelligent about it :)
 
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Ordered one of these it’s specs are FAR more efficient then our current 2kw sucking piece of ****!


Now looking at Smart Valves, I’m liking the look of the Tado ones, not the cheapest but the reviews are good and app looks very powerful and appears easy to setup, they appear to use some sort of wireless zigbee network or something rather then each one connects directly to your router so hopefully far easier to setup seeing as id need like 12/13 of them lol. I’m hoping once the main controller is setup they all just automatically connect and appear on the app?? Dunno but would be nice lol (usually how those little mesh networks work) much like the Decos just buy a new one plug it in and it sorts it self out no faff :D

Last winter we used quite a chunk of gas hopefully this winter we can be a bit more intelligent about it :)
I order a set of Draton Wiser fully-smart TRV's yesterday, so will be fitting them late next week - £582 for 11 TRV's and the receiver, so can let you know how it goes once installed and running for a bit if you like.
 
I order a set of Draton Wiser fully-smart TRV's yesterday, so will be fitting them late next week - £582 for 11 TRV's and the receiver, so can let you know how it goes once installed and running for a bit if you like.
Yes please that’s not bad price for 11 valves deffo give us a review :)
 
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We have a Samsung one... I think it was £650 when we got it, however the misses loves it and it much easier on the pocket after the initial outlay. Been going strong for 2 years with no issues at all.

Will keep us going till the Garden is all moved about and we can stick a rotary line in (yes i know, very 80's) which will save £££ in the summer...
My son just bought a Samsung one, we‘ve had a Siemens one for about 7 years. Had a 5 year warranty and had a new inverter board under warranty when it was about 4 years old, had a lot of use and still working🤞
We have a line outside and inside which we use when possible, not ideal conditions here for drying😏
 
Yes please that’s not bad price for 11 valves deffo give us a review :)
I installed it today and it was dead easy - if your existing central heating controller is attached to an industry standard controller backplate, then it's just a matter of pulling off the old controller and pushing the new one back in. If you don't have a standard backplate, then one comes in the box and it'll be a matter of transferring over the wires. I disconnected the wiring for my old thermostat that is in the hall - so you have the choice to leave the old stat where it is doing nothing, or remove it if you want to.

The TRVs come with a couple of adapters - I understand there are 4 different types of TRV screw fitting, but the vast majority are one of two standard styles, and it's those styles that adapters are provided for. You just unscrew the old TRV head and screw the replacement in place - no plumbing needed.

The TRVs connect to the controller box next to the boiler via radio waves (not sure of the standard, similar to wifi though). All of mine, in a two-story four-bed house, with brick internal walls, connected together fine. If there are connectivity problems you can get extenders, which plug into power sockets, also then providing a smart, app controllable, 230V plug socket too. Each TRV needs calibrating after installation, which is just a matter of turning the head of the TRV for a second or two, then it automatically calibrates itself with the physical radiator valve.

I've set mine up on a basic schedule for now - from 8-5, every upstairs TRV set very low so they don't come on, and each downstairs one set to 20C. Whenever any TRV downstairs drops below 20C, it makes a call to the controller for heat - if the water in the central heating system is already hot enough, it then just pumps that hot water to the radiators with open TRVs. And if the water is not hot enough, it fires the boiler up too. I think I'll eventually change it to a setup where only my office and my wife's office are on during the day, and the rest downstairs either so low that they never activate, or lower than the two offices - maybe 18C for example.

I didn't bother to replace the thermostat in the hall with a smart version (so saved about £50 not buying that), as it seemed somewhat redundant - I think the advantage is that you can override the individual TRV settings, but don't quote me on that as I don't have one to check for myself. But you can do a 1 hour boost (to temporarily increase or decrease the temp by a degree or two versus the ambient temperature) by twisting the top of a given TRV - so you can boost on a room by room basis. You can boost individual TRVs from the app too, and you can also boost all TRVs simultaneously from the app. So a stat on the wall seemed pointless, but I'll revisit if necessary after living with it for a while.

The controller does my hot water too, with the schedule now setup via the phone app. There's no web interface as far as I can tell, so all done on an Android or iOS app.

My system is an oil fired boiler working with a pressurised central heating system and a pressurised hot water cylinder - what Drayton call a 'standard' setup. They do other versions of the controller for other setups, e.g. combi-boilers, so just pick the version you need. I got mine from here (8 pack multizone kit, plus 3 extra individual TRVs), which I found to be the cheapest place: Smart Thermostat Shop . I noticed many other places are out of stock, presumably a Brexit/covid supply situation, so many normal places you can buy them, even cheaper than the shop linked, have no stock.
 
I installed it today and it was dead easy - if your existing central heating controller is attached to an industry standard controller backplate, then it's just a matter of pulling off the old controller and pushing the new one back in. If you don't have a standard backplate, then one comes in the box and it'll be a matter of transferring over the wires. I disconnected the wiring for my old thermostat that is in the hall - so you have the choice to leave the old stat where it is doing nothing, or remove it if you want to.

The TRVs come with a couple of adapters - I understand there are 4 different types of TRV screw fitting, but the vast majority are one of two standard styles, and it's those styles that adapters are provided for. You just unscrew the old TRV head and screw the replacement in place - no plumbing needed.

The TRVs connect to the controller box next to the boiler via radio waves (not sure of the standard, similar to wifi though). All of mine, in a two-story four-bed house, with brick internal walls, connected together fine. If there are connectivity problems you can get extenders, which plug into power sockets, also then providing a smart, app controllable, 230V plug socket too. Each TRV needs calibrating after installation, which is just a matter of turning the head of the TRV for a second or two, then it automatically calibrates itself with the physical radiator valve.

I've set mine up on a basic schedule for now - from 8-5, every upstairs TRV set very low so they don't come on, and each downstairs one set to 20C. Whenever any TRV downstairs drops below 20C, it makes a call to the controller for heat - if the water in the central heating system is already hot enough, it then just pumps that hot water to the radiators with open TRVs. And if the water is not hot enough, it fires the boiler up too. I think I'll eventually change it to a setup where only my office and my wife's office are on during the day, and the rest downstairs either so low that they never activate, or lower than the two offices - maybe 18C for example.

I didn't bother to replace the thermostat in the hall with a smart version (so saved about £50 not buying that), as it seemed somewhat redundant - I think the advantage is that you can override the individual TRV settings, but don't quote me on that as I don't have one to check for myself. But you can do a 1 hour boost (to temporarily increase or decrease the temp by a degree or two versus the ambient temperature) by twisting the top of a given TRV - so you can boost on a room by room basis. You can boost individual TRVs from the app too, and you can also boost all TRVs simultaneously from the app. So a stat on the wall seemed pointless, but I'll revisit if necessary after living with it for a while.

The controller does my hot water too, with the schedule now setup via the phone app. There's no web interface as far as I can tell, so all done on an Android or iOS app.

My system is an oil fired boiler working with a pressurised central heating system and a pressurised hot water cylinder - what Drayton call a 'standard' setup. They do other versions of the controller for other setups, e.g. combi-boilers, so just pick the version you need. I got mine from here (8 pack multizone kit, plus 3 extra individual TRVs), which I found to be the cheapest place: Smart Thermostat Shop . I noticed many other places are out of stock, presumably a Brexit/covid supply situation, so many normal places you can buy them, even cheaper than the shop linked, have no stock.
Thanks for the detailed review, my setup will be slightly different as in I have a nest for my heating controller / thermostat which I’m happy with. I’d just want the valves to control which part of the house gets heated following a basic schedule I’d setup. Not for them to actually call for heat.

The Tado have a basic version of the valves which pretty much do this and just require a internet bridge.

I think by setting a heating schedule via the nest and a valve schedule via Tado the boiler won’t need to do much work to get the various parts of the house warm depending on the time of day so hopefully hopefully save on gas :)
 
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got my new rates.
what did you guys do? get any decent fixed deals or just riding the fixed cap?
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Still managing to mostly avoid the grid so not to bothered by the rates but don't now how long i'll be able to keep this up with days getting shorter and weather getting ****tier
graph is a bit of a lie due the fact we have no kitchen and that was one of the biggest uses of energy so will be interesting once that's back with now 2 ovens not 1 DOH!
1665408356971.png
 
Still managing to be near enough off grid so far this month and trying to use as much as possible with car always plugged in and taking excess rather than throw into the grid for 4.5p KWh
The bonus now is I use my 7.5p overnight cheap rate to top up the house battery and power a couple of timed oil radiators (pinroom / bottom of stairs)

Here’s a worst case scenario where I topped up the car and house battery over 5 days which came to 83KWh for £6.
I’m not sure how I used 4kwh on standard rate but I blame the wife so she owes me £1.56.

8FB5D5A0-4080-4FC0-97CA-118427C35CDF.pngBC6C9573-3DAD-4FBE-9D39-C7E058E3F515.jpeg
 
Obviously in april 2023 it will shoot up like mad (unless you are on the dole then you will get help).

We are all living like we are in the 60s pre central heating.

The government have not mentioned all the extra funds they are getting from fuel duty.

The gas/electric cap needs to return to what it was a few months ago. How it can be done, I simply dont have the answers. If I was in government I would imagine I would have answers!
 
Obviously in april 2023 it will shoot up like mad (unless you are on the dole then you will get help).

We are all living like we are in the 60s pre central heating.

The government have not mentioned all the extra funds they are getting from fuel duty.

The gas/electric cap needs to return to what it was a few months ago. How it can be done, I simply dont have the answers. If I was in government I would imagine I would have answers!
Its a complete **** show energy prices + insane mortgage payments are gonna sting so many working class families
 
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