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Energy prices - gone nuts.

AndyB

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Switched to Green about a month ago, was one of the only decent deals with a firm that wasn't tiny, good customer service etc. Oh well.....
 

crsedgar

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Jun 12, 2016
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DUNDEE
I live in a standard size 3 bed bungalow 1920’s construction it’s cold and damp. I leave my thermostat on 20 pretty much from November until April.

I always wondered if it’s more efficient to do that or switch it off over night and when we go out. Then it has to do a big burn to get up to temperature. What do you guys tend to do.
Martin Lewis recommends running different setups for a month each then compare readings.

I leave it on all times.
 

Biff

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Just got this from Green: -

Hello ,

When we launched Green in 2019, our goal was to modernise the UK energy market by bringing low-cost renewable energy to all of our members.

It is with great regret that we are writing to inform you that Green is ceasing to trade, and that another supplier will be appointed by Ofgem to take over supply of our members.

The current market conditions are unprecedented, with record wholesale energy prices pushing the cost of energy above the price cap. The fire at the National Grid interconnector site in Sellindge on 15th September led to wholesale electricity and gas prices reaching new record highs. Beyond the fire, 2021 has seen incidents at other production sites, unplanned outages, high demand for Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) tankers, Brexit, the Suez Canal incident, and the Beast from the East II to name but a few.

This means that Green, like all other energy suppliers, are selling energy to customers at a loss. The price cap is calculated based upon a historic observation period, which means that it does not accurately reflect current market conditions.

Over the past week, we have been vocal in calling out Ofgem and the Government for creating a regulatory environment which has led to five energy suppliers collapsing in the last six weeks.

We wrote to Ofgem, the Prime Minister, the Business Secretary, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, together with 14 other suppliers asking for the energy price cap methodology to be reviewed and for an immediate support package to be assembled. Combined, the signatories account for over 1m customers and 2,000 staff. The letter accuses Ofgem of being unfit to regulate the industry, and of overseeing a return to a monopoly and a reduction in competition.

Although Green, like many other small suppliers, have been accused by the Business Secretary of bad business practices, the reality is that the soaring energy prices are due to a global gas shortage. This global gas shortage has a significant impact on the United Kingdom due to low capacity and was predicted by the Energy & Utilities Alliance (EUA) in 2017 upon the closure of the Rough gas storage facility by Centrica.


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Additionally, there have been several other factors outside of Green’s control which have had a significant impact. Although much has been written in recent days about hedging positions, there seems to have been little discussion of the impact of government lockdowns, which changed customers usage patterns and led to greater domestic usage than anticipated. As a result, Green was forced to purchase additional energy at the prevailing market rate.

During the pandemic, Ofgem also mandated that energy suppliers must provide payment holidays for customers and a relaxation of credit control - while still requiring that energy suppliers meet all of their payments. We have supported our members throughout these difficult times, providing payment holidays and being understanding of individual circumstances. Unfortunately, Ofgem’s ruling led to an increase in debit positions while Green still had to meet its industry obligations.

Ofgem amended the balancing mechanism in 2015 through the P305 modification. The balancing mechanism manages imbalance prices, which is the difference faced by energy suppliers between the amount of electricity they buy and the amount of electricity they sell. The changes made to Ofgem - based upon their own analysis - led to energy suppliers facing higher average imbalance costs, and being more exposed to large spikes in electricity wholesale prices. The events of 2021 have led to many such spikes, which have further impacted upon Green.

Finally, we would like to note that the Business Secretary was made aware of the threat to energy suppliers in March 2020 by Ofgem. We are now 18 months on from this letter, and to date no tangible action has been taken by the Business Secretary despite Ofgem stating that a ‘shock of this magnitude could mean that significant numbers of suppliers who have otherwise good business models may fail. To be clear, we are concerned that this may be significantly bigger in scale than recent failures and could involve larger, as well as small, suppliers. If the costs of any supplier failures are mutualised, this would also add to the pressure on suppliers remaining in the market’.

We fear that smaller energy suppliers are being left behind by the Government, with rescue packages being put in place for larger suppliers and for private discussions to be held with the Business Secretary. There is a position in Government and Ofgem that smaller suppliers should be left to fail, despite the unprecedented increases in wholesale electricity and gas, the cost of failed suppliers being mutualised across the industry, and an outdated price cap methodology forcing smaller suppliers to sell at a loss.

Our voice is not being heard - Ofgem and the Government seem intent on returning the market to the pre-deregulation state with only British Gas, EDF, E.On (including npower), OVO (SSE), and ScottishPower controlling the bulk of the customer base. With the exception of OVO who acquired SSE, the other suppliers have maintained a monopoly since the 1990s - which makes it difficult for any new entrants to thrive without having significant financial backing (e.g. Octopus Energy, Bulb).

We would like to reassure you that your energy supply is secure and any credit balances on your account will be protected for domestic customers. Ofgem, the energy regulator, will be appointing a new supplier for all of our customers and their advice is to not switch until a new supplier has been appointed.

I would like to personally thank each Green member for their support in realising our vision.

I would also like to thank our staff for their efforts, and to wish them every success in their future endeavours.

Kind regards,
 

Calimori

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Missed this because I am too busy having my whole roof replaced.
I have given up on the Tesla Solar roof. We will have panels embedded in the roof and a Tesla Powerwall battery when one arrives in the Uk.
a Eddi system to send excess electricity to heating water. Even a few degrees is less gas.
the roof will have solid insulation between the rafters and TLX gold breathable damp proof membrane on top.
The hope is to reduce heat requirements and move to self sufficient on electricity. Time will tell if the cost will justify it but the roof was coming off anyway.
16487A94-821D-473A-90EF-295FF3D79286.jpeg
 
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Fantazia2

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Darlington, UK
I think are lot of people are going to end up in the same boat with their fixed deals being lost due to smaller business going under.

Whats people opinion on the idea that energy should be nationalised and under government control etc., from what I gather all these smaller companies tend to be doing is buying gas and electric at wholesale prices and selling it on for an attempted profit, it doesnt matter who you pay your money to the product still comes from the same place. I always find it odd that companies sell themselves as being 100% green/carbon free etc when you use them put the electric and gas coming into your house still comes from the national grid.

Its not like we get a choice with water companies, we are just supplied and charged by whoever services the area.
 

Biff

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Think we are all missing the bigger picture here. 1st goes the smaller energy provider, up goes the price, then industry and energy reliant service providers will suffer - i am no economist but in already week economy, this could be a tipping point to something really nasty.

What we have now is the haves and the have nots, and we are have nots. We have been for a while, but only now is it catching us out. I guess the pins will burn well at any rate.

:)
 

Fantazia2

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Darlington, UK
Think we are all missing the bigger picture here. 1st goes the smaller energy provider, up goes the price, then industry and energy reliant service providers will suffer - i am no economist but in already week economy, this could be a tipping point to something really nasty.

What we have now is the haves and the have nots, and we are have nots. We have been for a while, but only now is it catching us out. I guess the pins will burn well at any rate.

:)
I think we have already seen this with the lack of CO2 being available for food market etc, due to the current high gas prices one of the biggest producers of CO2 as a by product of fertiliser making has shut down 2 of its factories so supplies are dwindling which could then have the knock on effect of reducing the availability of fresh and frozen produce, along with fizzy drinks supplies and the most important thing, Beer supplies.

Ive also seen today mention that we have some nuclear power stations that use CO2 as a cooling agent and if the supply of it dries up that will cause them to be taken offline and causing more electricity supply issues again pushing up the wholesale cost for electricity.

There was news today of the government in emergency talks and incentives to this company to get them producing again, the shelves are already starting to look bare enough due to the HGV driver issue, they could end up being even barer.
 

Paul

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Price wars and smaller companies offering unrealistically cheaper rates (with no precautions taken for anything other than small price variations). It's the market "re-alligning"....

The mail above from Green is a classic example of a company saying "it's everyone elses fault and not ours" - well if you had planned for these variation then you wouldne be going out of business and everyone else expected to pick up your mess.
 

Mfresh

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It's a ludicrous situation. Companies that have hedged their exposire to rising gas prices by buying futures will survive longer than ones that have not had the foresight (or luck) to have done so. But here's the problem. As the smaller companies go bust (like two did today), those customers are transferred to other energy providers. BUT, and this is a big but, the energy for those new customers has not been hedged. So over the next few months each new customer is likely to cost the energy provider that takes them on about £500.

Now already 1.5 million customers need new energy providers. 1.5 million x £500 is £750 MILLION. So which energy company wants to take on those new customers? In normal circumstances energy companies want to take on new customers, and that is why they have the member get member incenvive schemes. But now Bulb and others have stopped their schemes, and noone wants to take on new customers, because of the huge expense in doing so.

So who exactly is going to take on the massive, hundreds of millions of pounds cost of taking on all the hundreds of thousands of customers that are going to need new energy suppliers in the coming weeks? Normally the Big 6 and others bid for them, but now Ofgem is going to have to force suppliers to take them on, and hope they can survive.

As I say, it's ludicrous!
 
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DRD

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Before anyone gets a smart meter, I would recommend that they do some internet digging.

These smart meters can be turned off remotely by your supplier. Or the supplier can force you to move to an expensive prepayment tariff. With a traditional meter the supplier would have to enter your home to do these things.

Should the smart meter fail. Or should the supplier make a billing mistake. Or should the supplier apply targeted load-shedding ..... your supply could basically be cut off.

 

Calimori

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I believe those situations should only come about if you fail to pay. And the big 6 have an agreement not to cut you off if you meet certain criteria.
And if you are at the state where it isn’t that you can’t pay but it is that you don’t want to pay, or the device fails and you can’t get any help, then they are trivial to bypass. I am not saying this is the right legal choice.
If we are at the point where the local or national grid has an issue with supply then any meter will have the same issue.

My route is to try to reduce dependency on external supply and therefore the spikes in cost. I also think that their will be increased taxing on energy usage associated with poorly insulated houses. Hence, I am trying to do my bit on both. Air sourced heat pump AC will be the next step to move away from gas usage.
 

M4carp

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Before anyone gets a smart meter, I would recommend that they do some internet digging.

These smart meters can be turned off remotely by your supplier. Or the supplier can force you to move to an expensive prepayment tariff. With a traditional meter the supplier would have to enter your home to do these things.

Should the smart meter fail. Or should the supplier make a billing mistake. Or should the supplier apply targeted load-shedding ..... your supply could basically be cut off.

I will never get one as long as possible, remote turn off etc
The main reason they are getting them out there is so they can see live how much theft is going on and not to ‘help’ the consumer. No doubt every house will have to have one eventually to help with this.
 

M4carp

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And if you are at the state where it isn’t that you can’t pay but it is that you don’t want to pay, or the device fails and you can’t get any help, then they are trivial to bypass.
Yes very easy when you know how but very dangerous when you don’t! Also you can go to prison for electricity theft so best not to.
Being a sparky I’ve seen it all 🤐
 
OP
Neil McRae

Neil McRae

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Before anyone gets a smart meter, I would recommend that they do some internet digging.

These smart meters can be turned off remotely by your supplier. Or the supplier can force you to move to an expensive prepayment tariff. With a traditional meter the supplier would have to enter your home to do these things.

Should the smart meter fail. Or should the supplier make a billing mistake. Or should the supplier apply targeted load-shedding ..... your supply could basically be cut off.


Total nonsense all of it. They can’t remote turn off anything.

Neil.


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Rob zombie

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Conwy
I can't be bothered to read through all of this but just to say... I paid £1750 for 3 months gas and electric from Shell Energy at the start of the year.

Been with Bulb before. Very happy to be back with British Gas.
 

M4carp

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Total nonsense all of it. They can’t remote turn off anything.

Neil.


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Can my supply be turned off remotely?
Smart meters have the facility to remotely disconnect and reconnect both the electricity and gas supply. However, most suppliers seem to have decided it is too dangerous to remotely disconnect or reconnect, as in the case of disconnection they cannot always be sure that the customer isn't relying on a supply for serious health reasons and in the case of reconnection the customer may have left a cooker on for example.


Read more at: https://www.smartme.co.uk/customer-rights.html © SmartMe.co.uk
 

daveyp

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Dec 27, 2018
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Just had my bill from a holiday let I have on a business tariff.

Was unsure what it was but I am on a 3 year deal until May 24 and paying 19.3 a kWh and 25p a day.

Seemed expensive at the time but now I can relax as it only has electric and runs a Air source heat pump and hot tub so does use a lot of electricity.


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astyy

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Dont be nosey :-)
Another 3 have ceased trading today; Enstroga, Igloo Energy and Symbio Energy.

Whilst credit and supply are protected, best advice I've gleaned elsewhere is that if you're not with one of the big 6 then download copies of statements and credits as they may be unavailable in case of trouble.
 

kevlar

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I've had an email saying I'm being moved to Shell Energy ( from Green ) and when the move is complete I'm free to stay or move elsewhere. So who has the best deals now?
 

robotgreg

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I'm in exactly the same boat as you, Kev although I never received an email to say Green had gone bust, just the transfer one from Shell. More frustrating as I was chasing a refund of nearly £400 credit balance, but at least that's protected!
 

Arv

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I'm not sure when it became the norm to build up a balance with these companies? If you feel the need to build up a balance for the winter months open another account within your current account and put the extra in there. Always pay the monthly amount in full and you can't go wrong.

S.
 
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Neil McRae

Neil McRae

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Unfortunately that’s not how this works!


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johnwhitfield

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The ****holes at octopus currently owe me £700+ in surplus payments. Trying to get the them to reduce how much they take is futile. They are all pretty much a law unto themselves. I had my payments increased by £100 a month despite being in credit ?!?
The ****ers at the water company also installed a water meter out of the blue claiming it was to reduce water loss, rather ironic as there is a pretty permanent river running down our street for the last 25 years due to their burst pipes.
 

Jazzbouche

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Well it was only a matter of time - had 6 weeks left with symbio but that’s been cut short today. Will have to see who we’re put on to and then look for whatever the best deal is. I only need electric so was hoping I could find someone that isn’t hit by the gas side of things but I don’t think that’s realistic. Oh well.
 
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