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Energy prices - gone nuts.

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Have you compared the usage figures to your meter and seen how accurate it is?
Now my SMETS1 meters are migrated I can see my actual grid usage for the previous day.
The Tesla gateway acts as the primary consumer unit and it measures voltage and amps and gives an accurate usage figure.
I am coming round to the interface as I learn and they update. But it took a while to like.

There is a company called Loop Energy, who offer a free service to take your smart meter readings and give you insights on actual usage. This is not a scam AFAIK, their business model was to help you switch suppliers and they built out their platform at the worst time.
Worth a look at but they do take need a bank or credit card to confirm address. If they just wanted to charge us £5, most would just give the card but when it is apparently free, we then don’t trust them. I took a punt and was not charged a penny.
 
Calimori said:
Have you compared the usage figures to your meter and seen how accurate it is?
Now my SMETS1 meters are migrated I can see my actual grid usage for the previous day.
The Tesla gateway acts as the primary consumer unit and it measures voltage and amps and gives an accurate usage figure.
I am coming round to the interface as I learn and they update. But it took a while to like.

There is a company called Loop Energy, who offer a free service to take your smart meter readings and give you insights on actual usage. This is not a scam AFAIK, their business model was to help you switch suppliers and they built out their platform at the worst time.
Worth a look at but they do take need a bank or credit card to confirm address. If they just wanted to charge us £5, most would just give the card but when it is apparently free, we then don’t trust them. I took a punt and was not charged a penny.
Click to expand...
Yeah so I basically use the solax app, loop energy, geo home(talks to my actual meter, 10sec updates) and octopus website (updates each night) and they all pretty much match which is good :)

Had a good day today, not been home until now so barely used anything and been pretty sunny so made quite a chunk but all exported down toilet lol
0B3DA467-3692-472D-8623-7CBAFDD0CAAA.jpeg
 
Calimori said:
Have you compared the usage figures to your meter and seen how accurate it is?
Now my SMETS1 meters are migrated I can see my actual grid usage for the previous day.
The Tesla gateway acts as the primary consumer unit and it measures voltage and amps and gives an accurate usage figure.
I am coming round to the interface as I learn and they update. But it took a while to like.

There is a company called Loop Energy, who offer a free service to take your smart meter readings and give you insights on actual usage. This is not a scam AFAIK, their business model was to help you switch suppliers and they built out their platform at the worst time.
Worth a look at but they do take need a bank or credit card to confirm address. If they just wanted to charge us £5, most would just give the card but when it is apparently free, we then don’t trust them. I took a punt and was not charged a penny.
Click to expand...
How is your Tesla battery going?
 
I really like it. There are pro’s and con’s like anything but it is not a gimmick.
I had hoped to change our ways and 13.5kW be enough for us a day but it isn’t. Certainly not the days I work from home and the washing machine is needed for the kids clothes.
Now we are part of the Tesla/Octopus scheme, I can stop caring about export and import. The grid is my storage and my storage is their to balance the grid.

Next plan is where to fit more solar panels. We need more if we want to go heat pump. I am planning a timber gazebo that I will fit more panels on the roof.
 
Or do they use coal fired and then buy the certificates so all is good?
 
PAX said:
My supplier supposedly supplies electricity from 100% renewable sources.
So unless the cost of sunlight and wind has increased massively, why has my unit rate skyrocketed?🤔
Click to expand...

Its a big con because it doesnt matter who you pay for your electric it all comes from the same source, they still buy wholesale energy from the grid and sell it to you at a profit, or they used to, if your on the cap at the moment I think it actually costs them.

The whole 100% green energy thing means they only invest in green energy supplies, or if they are someone who feeds into the grid they only produce green energy, essentially double dipping as they make money selling the power to the grid and then they (attempt to) make money buying it back from the grid and selling to customers.

The whole home energy market is just admin pure and simple.

Theres also another reason why companies might declare they are 100% green energy and that its there are exemptions from the price cap for tarriffs that are deemed to be green tarrifs, which as you mentioned at the start is a massive con anyway.
 
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octopus.energy

Green Energy | Green Power For All | Octopus Energy

Octopus Energy is on a mission to make green energy the UK's main power source. Discover major steps we're taking to get greener energy to our customers.
octopus.energy octopus.energy

Octopus generate electricity via green sources which they have generated (via their generation business unit) and then sold to supply to the National Grid. National grid then supply that via their network to our homes. Your energy company, are responsible for billing and accounting, the admin work.

When we talk about a kW of electricity, it is a fungible commodity. The ones I get may not have been generated by a wind turbine because the network doesn't work that way. But it is offset by Octopus being able to account to stating they generate as much as they supply to their customers. As an energy generator, they appear generate more kW than the other side of the business need for customers, so I assume it gets used by other energy companies.
I take all of this as a simplification of the process rather than green washing but happy to hear others thoughts.

The cost of gas rose, which increased the cost of gas generated kW. I would be interested in knowing if the generation market has a different buying price for how their kW are generated? I couldn't quickly find an answer for this. But once National Grid has those kW, it was negotiating deals with the energy companies to sell them. I have no idea if Octopus could use their position as a generator of kW to get a better deal.

The price cap is Ofgems (non ministerial government department) trying to regulate the market. I think we are all saying that most companies are losing on us at the moment.
 
Calimori said:
octopus.energy

Green Energy | Green Power For All | Octopus Energy

Octopus Energy is on a mission to make green energy the UK's main power source. Discover major steps we're taking to get greener energy to our customers.
octopus.energy octopus.energy

Octopus generate electricity via green sources which they have generated (via their generation business unit) and then sold to supply to the National Grid. National grid then supply that via their network to our homes. Your energy company, are responsible for billing and accounting, the admin work.

When we talk about a kW of electricity, it is a fungible commodity. The ones I get may not have been generated by a wind turbine because the network doesn't work that way. But it is offset by Octopus being able to account to stating they generate as much as they supply to their customers. As an energy generator, they appear generate more kW than the other side of the business need for customers, so I assume it gets used by other energy companies.
I take all of this as a simplification of the process rather than green washing but happy to hear others thoughts.

The cost of gas rose, which increased the cost of gas generated kW. I would be interested in knowing if the generation market has a different buying price for how their kW are generated? I couldn't quickly find an answer for this. But once National Grid has those kW, it was negotiating deals with the energy companies to sell them. I have no idea if Octopus could use their position as a generator of kW to get a better deal.

The price cap is Ofgems (non ministerial government department) trying to regulate the market. I think we are all saying that most companies are losing on us at the moment.
Click to expand...
I’m with octopus and Iv been quite impressed with them, they sent out a huge email before the huge price increase explaining the whole situation and ideas they had to soften the blow etc… plus they have quite a big R&D division I follow closely (there heat pumps look quite interesting plus the 5k gov grant!!)

You asked about the various apps reporting, here are the 3 I use all showing roughly same 1.6kw usage for the week :)

744BF839-FEE9-48B4-8B9F-0FF8154F13FC.jpeg
40ECD5D6-CBC4-499D-B765-D9CE7F74E4A2.jpeg
10176C49-7BF0-4D19-BAC3-D3611F4AA411.jpeg

One minor issue Iv had nothing major but slightly annoying is some evenings with a full battery it takes about 1 hour to swap over to using the battery ie solar will be on 0 and it will just start using the grid for an hour then suddenly the battery will kick in. But other nights it transitions correctly and no power from grid is used. Not quite sure why this is. Might be some setting on the inverter maybe.
 
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How is the battery wired into the overall system? What decides to turn the taps in the battery?

In my system, the Tesla Gateway is the master consumer unit. It sees the grid feed and is the battery controller. It knows when to use the battery. All rather mute now as the master brain at Tesla/Octopus decides when I use the grid and flow into and out of my battery.
The gateway has a bus bar and it can apparently take off a number of distributions which can be either on back up or off. In other words, in a power cut, it will switch to fully off grid but some circuits or secondary consumer units can have selected back up.

The gateway can also be directly controlled from the app via Bluetooth from a phone. So no requirement for internet to control it.
 
Calimori said:
How is the battery wired into the overall system? What decides to turn the taps in the battery?

In my system, the Tesla Gateway is the master consumer unit. It sees the grid feed and is the battery controller. It knows when to use the battery. All rather mute now as the master brain at Tesla/Octopus decides when I use the grid and flow into and out of my battery.
The gateway has a bus bar and it can apparently take off a number of distributions which can be either on back up or off. In other words, in a power cut, it will switch to fully off grid but some circuits or secondary consumer units can have selected back up.

The gateway can also be directly controlled from the app via Bluetooth from a phone. So no requirement for internet to control it.
Click to expand...
Not 100% sure how it’s wired up but pretty sure it’s directly into the inverter as they are next to each other. The flow on this system is when there is solar power first divert to cover any house load, then any excess charge the battery, once battery charged the immersion heater will kick in and top hot water up, then any excess will export to the grid.
 
I am not an electrician and I welcome any electrician who wants to point me in the right direction and correct me.

It sounds like you might have a control device that is connected a single inverter. The solar and battery are upstream of that (DC) and it recognises your local need and balances if you charge the battery after what your house needs. Is there a clamp on the brown feed Grid side of the meter connected to the control unit?
The inverter takes what is supplied to it, from battery or solar and feeds your house as AC. Did your consumer unit remain directly connected to the meter?

Then a harvest device notices you are exporting and kicks in the water heater. Again, a clamp on the brown feed grid side. These are less accurate but do the job. Mine is now redundant as my exported electricity is being controlled by Tesla from my battery. Export and import cost the same, I can chose to heat the water at any point as my generated electricity isn’t worth less than what I can buy.

Did they tell you what happens if the grid goes down? I assume the battery kicks in.
 
Calimori said:
I am not an electrician and I welcome any electrician who wants to point me in the right direction and correct me.

It sounds like you might have a control device that is connected a single inverter. The solar and battery are upstream of that (DC) and it recognises your local need and balances if you charge the battery after what your house needs. Is there a clamp on the brown feed Grid side of the meter connected to the control unit?
The inverter takes what is supplied to it, from battery or solar and feeds your house as AC. Did your consumer unit remain directly connected to the meter?

Then a harvest device notices you are exporting and kicks in the water heater. Again, a clamp on the brown feed grid side. These are less accurate but do the job. Mine is now redundant as my exported electricity is being controlled by Tesla from my battery. Export and import cost the same, I can chose to heat the water at any point as my generated electricity isn’t worth less than what I can buy.

Did they tell you what happens if the grid goes down? I assume the battery kicks in.
Click to expand...
They did not appear to do anything with the fuse box, but splice into the system in the meter box and did add a clamp on the brown cable (and I added a second one for the immersion diverter.
I think that just got a feed from that black junction box.
f38a3881-a1c0-43ca-8b87-02350f204ab7.jpg
 
It still amazes me how electricity works. You can have two feeds (grid and solar) joining at the same point as a draw and it all balances itself out and doesn’t catch fire.

Do you know if the black junction box has a digital device in it (modbus)?
I assume the bigger black wire goes to the inverter?
 
Calimori said:
It still amazes me how electricity works. You can have two feeds (grid and solar) joining at the same point as a draw and it all balances itself out and doesn’t catch fire.

Do you know if the black junction box has a digital device in it (modbus)?
I assume the bigger black wire goes to the inverter?
Click to expand...
From memory the black box is just a fuse or junction box as was already there. Yeah that black wire goes directly to the inverter in garage loft.

Yeah I can’t quite get my head around how the power goes back into the grid.
 
After a few mistakes starting to get used to the whole solar thing. (orange bad, green good!)
1653164135711.png
1653164178057.png

Not sure what Off-grid(EPS) is though?
 
Calimori said:
octopus.energy

Green Energy | Green Power For All | Octopus Energy

Octopus Energy is on a mission to make green energy the UK's main power source. Discover major steps we're taking to get greener energy to our customers.
octopus.energy octopus.energy

Octopus generate electricity via green sources which they have generated (via their generation business unit) and then sold to supply to the National Grid. National grid then supply that via their network to our homes. Your energy company, are responsible for billing and accounting, the admin work.

When we talk about a kW of electricity, it is a fungible commodity. The ones I get may not have been generated by a wind turbine because the network doesn't work that way. But it is offset by Octopus being able to account to stating they generate as much as they supply to their customers. As an energy generator, they appear generate more kW than the other side of the business need for customers, so I assume it gets used by other energy companies.
I take all of this as a simplification of the process rather than green washing but happy to hear others thoughts.

The cost of gas rose, which increased the cost of gas generated kW. I would be interested in knowing if the generation market has a different buying price for how their kW are generated? I couldn't quickly find an answer for this. But once National Grid has those kW, it was negotiating deals with the energy companies to sell them. I have no idea if Octopus could use their position as a generator of kW to get a better deal.

The price cap is Ofgems (non ministerial government department) trying to regulate the market. I think we are all saying that most companies are losing on us at the moment.
Click to expand...

The price for electricity is dominated by the price of gas, whether you buy renewable or not. The price for renewables is slightly higher. What we need though is nuclear to offset years when wind and solar yield is low. France pay about 40% lower and during the high of the "EU single market" stupidity the French were selling power to us idiots in the UK for substantially more than they sold it to their own countrymen. Right now Germany is about 30% more than the UK for energy.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Neil McRae said:
The price for renewables is slightly higher.
Click to expand...
I am interested where you got that from. Everything I have read from various sources seems to indicate that once over the initial investment and connection costs, wind and solar are cheaper to generate 1kW than gas.
Totally agree with nuclear. It needs to be in the strategy for when the environment doesn’t deliver as expected.
 
Calimori said:
I am interested where you got that from. Everything I have read from various sources seems to indicate that once over the initial investment and connection costs, wind and solar are cheaper to generate 1kW than gas.
Totally agree with nuclear. It needs to be in the strategy for when the environment doesn’t deliver as expected.
Click to expand...
cost wise of course, I'm talking about price! they sell it at higher price than other sources! Scarcity is the blame vector for that.
 
PAX said:
My supplier supposedly supplies electricity from 100% renewable sources.
So unless the cost of sunlight and wind has increased massively, why has my unit rate skyrocketed?🤔
Click to expand...
This article is about the energy market in Ireland but it says the same model is in use here. It explains why when one source of supply goes up (eg gas) all suppliers including wind solar etc get paid the new higher price. Called ‘pay as clear.’
www.thefitzwilliam.com

Electricity in Ireland: A Critical Review

Electrical grids are actually really cool
www.thefitzwilliam.com www.thefitzwilliam.com
 
More than doubled in a year, saw yesterday they are giving everyone a £400 credit on our bill in October now and we dont have to pay it back over 5 years anymore.

Current thinking is it will plateau in January when they move to 3 month cap change and then possibly go down a bit.
 
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