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75th Anniversary WoZ

Surely the standard rules of 'limited edition' applies the same to pinballs. IE to make something appear to be more valuable than it actually is.

No different to a 306 'tahiti' , a cue signed by Ronnie O'sullivan or a gold coloured disk framed with a picture of Elvis.
 
I am pretty much out on NIB games now. Stern pro's represent best value, if code is good. But LE's are getting to crazy price levels by JJP and Stern - JJP seems to be building machines on continued pre-order money. Wonder if Stern will bring out a TRON SE as they know they would sell loads but equally create another ****storm!
 
mufcmufc said:
Your assumption is incorrect about prices being ever increasing. Back In Black cost me the most, so my price has been reducing.

I'm not against him charging what he wants, I'm not against him producing 5 different "LE" models. But to publically state that he's charging what he wants BECAUSE HE CAN is pretty ballsy to say the least. He's painted himself as the saviour of pinball, I hope he does well and makes lots of different titles - doesn't mean I have to like him or indeed buy any of his games.

I'm no Stern Lover - Avengers is bad, Transformers is average at best, X Men was dire with the 1st three revisions of code - it seems OK now but I'd have to put some reasonable time on it to really see. WoZ has beautiful cabinet art, I dislike the proposed overall rules - too complicated, I'm unsure about the layout and I don't like the LEDs as I think there are too many. It does have a lovely light show though and when the final code is released I'll re-assess it. To say Stern's don't have finished code when WoZ has the least finished code is Pot Kettle Black territory and an issue which really shouldn't be raised as an argument until WoZ is finished. For the record (again) WoF is the only unfinished Stern game out there and it's pathetic that it happened. Yes Metallica is "unfinished" but is being worked on

You love WoZ, I love AC/DC - I generally don't harp on about how amazing it is, or how much I love Gary Stern - I don't, I just happen to buy games with his name on because I can. I have also ordered a Predator, I did order an MM LE too but cancelled when I realised it would be just better to continue with the one I'm building myself.
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Fair enough. This was my end game pin. It's probably going to be a keeper
 
The collector markets in the US are completely different to those over here, and fortunately for Jack and Gary, it seems the Yanks have piles of disposable income to throw at all these 'Limited Editions' that pop up every 5 minutes?

In the UK our cash is a lot harder to come by, and most of us demand better value for money. I don't want to be harsh on our American friends, but judging by the posts on the Pinside forum, it seems they will buy any old tat at any price if you put 'LE' at the end of the name!
 
Steve said:
The collector markets in the US are completely different to those over here, and fortunately for Jack and Gary, it seems the Yanks have piles of disposable income to throw at all these 'Limited Editions' that pop up every 5 minutes?

In the UK our cash is a lot harder to come by, and most of us demand better value for money. I don't want to be harsh on our American friends, but judging by the posts on the Pinside forum, it seems they will buy any old tat at any price if you put 'LE' at the end of the name!
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They do buy em a lot cheaper as no shipping and VAT!
 
Do they not have to pay their own local tax equivalent to VAT, I remember someone (Phil from PH) recently saying that this is not included in the price pin.
 
Yes they do pay tax but it works different than over here. When I was over there they don't put the tax on the price they add it when you get to the checkout which is very confusing and abit backwards
 
What really stinks about this new LE is the fact that there are still hundreds of US buyers waiting for a machine they paid for 2 years ago. Jack is shipping standards while constantly delaying the original LE orders. Rumour is that it will be mid 2014 before the last of the orders are shipped. How must they feel, now knowing a machine they haven't yet got isn't as limited as they were told it would be? It's no way to run a business, they take your money, then don't give a sh*t about the ones who paid, more interested in getting new orders at higher prices.

I doubt there will be many buyers for the 75th anniversary edition at that price, but the fact that he's done it shows you can't trust this man. Long term damage has been done to his reputation, The Hobbit will have to be something pretty damn special to redeem himself.
 
People jump on these pre-orders and pay top money thinking it will be their only chance to own one. I think this post from Pinside says it all:

"Jack is on video from dozens of pinball shows over the past 2-3 years proclaiming "There will only be 1000 Limited Edition Games made and they're selling fast" (or many, many variations to that effect). By selling this new LE, that is false advertising. Plain and simple, he LIED. I sincerely believe he could be sued. I bought on that promise and I'm confident others did too. We put up with people questioning us for 2+ years like we were idiots for trusting our money with Jack ... we were taunted the game would never happen ... but we believed. We supported Jack. We believed we would have something very limited and very special. And now he just hits us with this. I find it absolutely disgusting. I find it to be nothing but GREED with complete disregard for those that helped get his company off the ground. It's wrong. Period".
 
GrizZ said:
The picture of grown men weeping rivers, beating the ground, and crying out to their gods because their special green game suddenly doesn't seem as special as a red game amuses me no end :D

Meanwhile in the real world .....:rolleyes:
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Reminds me of football, I want to beat the crap out of you because you are wearing a red shirt and mine is blue :)
 
Steve said:
People jump on these pre-orders and pay top money thinking it will be their only chance to own one. I think this post from Pinside says it all:

"Jack is on video from dozens of pinball shows over the past 2-3 years proclaiming "There will only be 1000 Limited Edition Games made and they're selling fast" (or many, many variations to that effect). By selling this new LE, that is false advertising. Plain and simple, he LIED. I sincerely believe he could be sued. I bought on that promise and I'm confident others did too. We put up with people questioning us for 2+ years like we were idiots for trusting our money with Jack ... we were taunted the game would never happen ... but we believed. We supported Jack. We believed we would have something very limited and very special. And now he just hits us with this. I find it absolutely disgusting. I find it to be nothing but GREED with complete disregard for those that helped get his company off the ground. It's wrong. Period".
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Yup the above is very sad indeed.In fact since JJP originally announced WOZ, pin prices have gone up by a large percent.He is now doing "another" LE.In fact way things are going the normal version will be rarer!Whilst at the same time Stern prices have just kept going up,whilst various things have been removed-ST prems dont even have the protective side rails any more:eek:And don't even get me started on code - been months since any MET update,boy am I feeling "reamed"on that one.Good fun game,but really could be one of the best ever - it has that potential.But I for one wouldn't want to pay£6.5k for "potential".Maybe there's a lesson for us all there - only buy games when code is waay more complete.Stern and JJP are both guilty there.But guess we are all suckers,and pinheads will just keep on buying incomplete stuff - I wont tho.Not even for a RAMONES pin!!Screw em all
 
Judge Dreads said:
I think you just have to make your purchase on face value in future with no expectations as to exclusivity ;)
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Why? As far as I see it no other manufacturer has gone back on their word about the amount of LE's produced. Unfinished code is another matter altogether... o_O
 
Can anyone find a quote where Jack said he wouldnt be releasing any different versions of Woz? I can't remember him saying that and I've been in on this from the start. I honestly couldn't give a **** about this new Woz. It seems all the people up in arms don't even own a Woz in the first place?
 
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Moonraker said:
Why? As far as I see it no other manufacturer has gone back on their word about the amount of LE's produced. Unfinished code is another matter altogether... o_O
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Has there not been a change in the amount of MM's that are going to be made since the 1st announcement? With reagards to code, it means just that, expect that the code will never get finished and like the game as is :rofl:
 
Judge Dreads said:
Has there not been a change in the amount of MM's that are going to be made since the 1st announcement?
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Ok, no other manufacturer in current production then...

Judge Dreads said:
With regards to code, it means just that, expect that the code will never get finished and like the game as is :rofl:
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Not true, Stern have produced uprated code since inital release for many machines (I've updated code to both Tron and Xmen for example).
 
Moonraker said:
Ok, no other manufacturer in current production then...



Not true, Stern have produced uprated code since inital release for many machines (I've updated code to both Tron and Xmen for example).
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Tell everyone to stop moaning then if everyone should be happy with the current state of affairs!
 
Judge Dreads said:
Tell everyone to stop moaning then if everyone should be happy with the current state of affairs!
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:D

I'd be moaning if I bought NIB with unfinished code, like poibug. :eek:

However, a year or so down the line Stern do seem to produce updates which more or less finish the code, albeit perhaps not as creative as it could have been if sufficient time had been spent on it...
 
When I run for Prime Minister (which is inevitable) I am definitely going to offer Jonathan a job as my campaign manager.
 
I think it's fair to say, if no one moans then nothing changes, people voicing their opinions and experiences on forums and groups may be one of the only ways forward to encourage manufactures to stick to their word (LE SE PVC KGB ETC) and to hold back the release of titles until the product is complete, that includes the code.
 
jonathan said:
Can anyone find a quote where Jack said he would be releasing any different versions of Woz? I can't remember him saying that and I've been in on this from the start. I honestly couldn't give a **** about this new Woz. It seems all the people up in arms don't even own a Woz in the first place?
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Jonathan would you still feel the same if you were still waiting for your WOZ?

OK I don't own a WOZ but I am a potential Hobbit buyer, surely that gives me a right to an opinion? And if it's true that Hobbit LE preorders are nearly sold out, there are nearly 1500 buyers that are very interested in how Jack treats his customers.

I'm not going to risk putting my money on a THLE, the only reason I can see to do that would be to get in at a good price, aren't WOZ standards now selling for more than the original LE preorder price?

Bottom line for me is: I like WOZ but the theme's not my cup of tea. If The Hobbit kicks ass, and if the standard price hasn't rocketed by the time they are ready to ship, then I'm still up for it, whether I like Jack's business practises or not. I just want to play great pinball!
 
Yeah I would still feel the same way if I was waiting for Woz. I'm not sure what the difference is? Jacks offered to upgrade people who haven't received their games yet. I didn't buy Woz to sell at a profit. I don't care how exclusive or limited it is or isnt
 
I won't be buying to make money either (although it would be nice not to lose too much on the resale). I also don't care about exclusivity, I firmly believe they should create one standard manchine for all.

But I wouldn't be happy with the shipping delays. You and many others must have a lot of patience.

Jack's offer to upgrade will no doubt put them to the back of the queue, whilst taking yet more money from them - I think most would see the offer as an insult, they just want to get the machine they've waited so long for.
 
But this announcement has zero impact on how fast they get their game? 500 have been shipped and they are continuing to ship 50 a week. Announcements for next year won't change that
 
Adding extras to a later run really reminds me of the "expanded" CDs you get where people who buy later versions get extra tracks etc. Always a way to **** off the initial buyers. Got to say that as a Hobbit buyer I'd feel totally ****ed over if a later run came out with extra bits that I wanted. Seeing this happen to WOZ doesn't give me that much confidence. I know I get a lower price which is why I signed up but that comes with a risk, see the Australian cock up.

One that I think will really annoy people though is if the MM lot go onto reproduce BBB. Wasn't the whole point of that the massively low production run when they ran it? If I'd bought something on the understanding that there would only ever be 200 I think I'd be livid if another 2000 appeared.

Generally think that any limited runs suck as an idea. Is a BIB AC/DC really worth more than a standard premium one? Does it do anything more? Having to put cash down to secure a limited version of a machine before you've ever seen one sucks even more. (Probably won't stop me plonking money down on a limited Game Of Thrones machine if they ever came out with one....)

Don't even get me started on the farce that is the "pro" machine. 4k for something missing major features FFS
 
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