I just updated one of mine. i thought they auto expired? but mine didn’t. i suspect there are a few others no longer up for sale.
Pinball info
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The OFFICIAL LICENSED 'moans about pricing' thread
- Thread starter VeeMonroe
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I'd guess that there are a lot of factors involved here, with space one of them for some people. I doubt it's a significant factor though - it's too much of a coincidence in my mind to think that an entire hobby's worth of people, that have been running along happily for 15-20 years without a problem, just so happens to have run out of space at the exact same time that post-covid and a cost of living crisis has hit. People used to just sell then replace to get around the space problem, but selling is now an issue in that equation.
As I went through that list adding up the prices though, a lot of them are modern - it was very noticeable versus how the list would have looked 5 or 10 years ago, that the amount of money people had tied up in machines was therefore far greater than it used to be. In the past. I guess historically the average person might have had £5-10k in total tied up in machines, whereas in that list they can have that tied up in a single game.
My guess is that this is all mainly just a hangover from covid when people had masses of disposable income and so dropping that sort of money on a game seemed fine (people who did that, don't feel bad about it - my wife spunked £10k on a hot tub that we can barely justify turning on because electricity is so expensive!!), but now there's a fraction of that disposable income left in the market.
It's noticeably getting worse too. There were 3 pages of machines available for sale only a month or so ago when I last looked, and 4 pages now. There's always historically been a summer lull in sales, but I'd guess that an increase of a net 15-20 open adverts in a month, to a list that started at around 60 machines for sale, is a massive record for pinballinfo.
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And yet this week people are still saying MMr is a 10 grand plus game.
Prices are all over the shop. I’ve pretty much given up buying or selling
Prices are all over the shop. I’ve pretty much given up buying or selling
I think it’s easy to get a false perspective on here.
It’s a relatively small proportion who comment and the same who are in on new pins when released.
When I personally read them It’s hard to not see it as I’m in the minority at not being able to chuck £10k on something at the drop of the hat.
When in reality it’s the minority who can afford it.
The people who could just about afford it and have been sucked into this wonderful hobby more recently are the ones now feeling the pinch and selling a pin to get their next pin fix is the only way forward.
With the rapid new pin price increases it’s increasing hard to keep up.
I’m in that group unfortunately, I’m literally desperate for a STh but I’ll have to be patient and save up, old school I know
It’s a relatively small proportion who comment and the same who are in on new pins when released.
When I personally read them It’s hard to not see it as I’m in the minority at not being able to chuck £10k on something at the drop of the hat.
When in reality it’s the minority who can afford it.
The people who could just about afford it and have been sucked into this wonderful hobby more recently are the ones now feeling the pinch and selling a pin to get their next pin fix is the only way forward.
With the rapid new pin price increases it’s increasing hard to keep up.
I’m in that group unfortunately, I’m literally desperate for a STh but I’ll have to be patient and save up, old school I know
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This exactly.
I’m always maxed out so historically have bought a game when an opportunity arose and then had to quickly sell one to make space . Also I’m terrible at letting them go so I do it this way to force myself to make the decision
This was never a problem as you knew you could usually shift stuff pretty quickly and have a good idea at what price .Right now that certainty isn’t there . Add in uncertainty now on value of a game going forward - are prices going to slide further ? - and it’s not hard to see why the market is jamming up.
Also worth noting the surge of new buyers into the market we saw in the last few years prob subsiding now, that was helping sustain the churn of games.
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I think a lot of Foo Fighters and TNA's have been purchased recently too as well as deposits for Pulp Fiction.
Not enough on it's own but added to all the reasons given above, it's enough to slow the market.
Elwins next game will be awesome but probably £13k for a premium. Even if it was a dream theme that would be too much for me which brings CGC, Spooky and American Pinball into the equation. For the 8k pins there is a lot more toys & mechs on Scooby, Halloween, Pulp, Legends of Valhalla than a a stripped down Stern pro.
There are some Bally Williams titles which now look incredibly appealing too given the price disparity.
Not enough on it's own but added to all the reasons given above, it's enough to slow the market.
Elwins next game will be awesome but probably £13k for a premium. Even if it was a dream theme that would be too much for me which brings CGC, Spooky and American Pinball into the equation. For the 8k pins there is a lot more toys & mechs on Scooby, Halloween, Pulp, Legends of Valhalla than a a stripped down Stern pro.
There are some Bally Williams titles which now look incredibly appealing too given the price disparity.
Are pinball prices a good indicator of where the housing market is going....?
I've pretty much always had to sell a machine to be able to afford a new one.
The reason I'm selling GZ is simply that I've had it for pushing 18 months (about 50% longer than I'd normally keep a machine) and I've seen everything there is to see on it, time for a change.
The reason I'm selling GZ is simply that I've had it for pushing 18 months (about 50% longer than I'd normally keep a machine) and I've seen everything there is to see on it, time for a change.
I think that's a fair point. We got into pinball towards the end of the pandemic, largely because we'd been stuck indoors, couldn't go on holiday and it worked better than board gaming with the kids. We now have seven pins. We don't have room for any more (seven is a stretch) and owning more than seven is diminishing returns anyway. We've also played so many different pins on location now that we've got a really good idea what we like (and don't), so any new pin would have to displace the power trio of AFM, Godzilla and JP2 (plus TNA... Fish Tales...). I think, at peak, last year, I was playing JP2 for an hour every fortnight on location as I was attending a lot of medical appointments near Funland in central London - so, when I say I know what I like, I *really* know what I like.
As a result, even if Elwin brought out the world's best Jaws, it's going to take at least six months - if not more - of location play for me to know if it's actually better for us than one of our existing pins. Thus, we're now no longer a market
You could offer a second-hand pin for £20 and I wouldn't be interested.
Will someone be totting up the data that shows how much moaning is really going on in this thread?
Seems a bit of false advertising to me - far too much agreeing going on!
Seems a bit of false advertising to me - far too much agreeing going on!
No.
People need houses to live in; pinball machines are unnecessary luxury items.
Everybody needs somewhere to live; pinball machine buyers are very limited.
Building new houses takes time and is predominantly controlled by a limited number of housebuilders who have dramatically reduced the number of new building starts; pinball manufacturers still producing volumes (maybe taking as long to build them though
)Government always supports the housing market in difficult times as it is such a large part of the economy; just last week there was lots of arm twisting of lenders to agree to the new Mortgage Charter; government will never support pinball.
Paying the mortgage / rent is for most always top of priorities list; pinball probably near bottom.
Despite what the press would like us to believe, average weekly earnings increases are keeping up with inflation 7.5% up in the past year and 23% up on 3 years ago, compared to consumer prices (including housing) increasing by 8.7% over the last year and 21% over the past 3.
And only 1/3 of the housing stock in the UK has a mortgage on it and by value total mortgages outstanding only account for around 19% of total housing wealth and most of the housing equity is held by the older generations.
Unfortunately any pain in the housing market will be focussed on the younger generations with higher mortgages; Most pinball buyers are older generations with little or no mortgage. Different target markets.
You made it to Monster Island Madness?!
Will someone be totting up the data that shows how much moaning is really going on in this thread?
Seems a bit of false advertising to me - far too much agreeing going on!
Good observation, I agree.
Now that’s an answer!No.
People need houses to live in; pinball machines are unnecessary luxury items.
Everybody needs somewhere to live; pinball machine buyers are very limited.
Building new houses takes time and is predominantly controlled by a limited number of housebuilders who have dramatically reduced the number of new building starts; pinball manufacturers still producing volumes (maybe taking as long to build them though
Government always supports the housing market in difficult times as it is such a large part of the economy; just last week there was lots of arm twisting of lenders to agree to the new Mortgage Charter; government will never support pinball.
Paying the mortgage / rent is for most always top of priorities list; pinball probably near bottom.
Despite what the press would like us to believe, average weekly earnings increases are keeping up with inflation 7.5% up in the past year and 23% up on 3 years ago, compared to consumer prices (including housing) increasing by 8.7% over the last year and 21% over the past 3.
And only 1/3 of the housing stock in the UK has a mortgage on it and by value total mortgages outstanding only account for around 19% of total housing wealth and most of the housing equity is held by the older generations.
Unfortunately any pain in the housing market will be focussed on the younger generations with higher mortgages; Most pinball buyers are older generations with little or no mortgage. Different target markets.
Must say, I'm with Craig on this... We've just bought TNA and I've also got an Alien Poker at home (really missing it as it's undergoing playfield replacement), and you can see everything they have to offer in about 15 minutes. TNA is just completing the same set of actions nine times with the occasional multi-ball.
It's not Dark Souls or Zelda... or the Elder Scrolls series. The point of the game isn't to wander around the whole map until you've spoken to every NPC.
That's just one of the reasons why I don't see the love for TNA at all - I think it's a very limited game.
But that also doesn't mean that once I have achieved everything I instantly get rid - I still love playing Black Jack despite it having only 2 real objectives (light the spinner and max out the bonus).
I'd had my fill of St Th after only a couple of weeks of having it at home, whereas WPT lasted over 5 years. GZ is the second longest I've ever had a machine. Now I'm down to owning just a single machine it needs rotating more often.
No it's the one you get if you manage to complete the planet X multiball, the one where you have 120 seconds to complete the whole of planet X again without ever having less than 2 balls. Once you have completed it you then have to complete KOTM and the super wizard mode will start. It's the equivalent of WDRTU. I actually haven't heard of anyone getting there yet
Or by doing the 10 secret combos and then completing KotM
That'll be a no then
My view is Yes. pinball prices dip before a housing price dipNow that’s an answer!
Quoting from the b66 ad.
I think some people care about # of plays and some people don’t. I do think it’s surprising how many plays some people think is a lot though considering what the machines are built for.
Both my TMNT and JP have about 2000 plays each, are huo and in great condition but that would still be too much for some people. I’ve had FF for just a month and it already has over 200 games on it.
One of the really nice things about the community is how people loan each other games, invite people over they’ve never even met, take games to shows etc. I hope that doesn’t change because people are worried about a few more plays.
I don’t know how NIB prices will be affected if the used market stays as it is atm. I think some people will be less likely to buy nib but whether it’s enough to make a difference to adjust prices down who knows. There must be some wiggle room to lower prices, they’re the same as when the £/$ was at 1.07 but if enough are still selling then there’s no push to lower them. People are still putting up wanted ads so still have the money and space.
If nib prices do come down then people can switch to moaning about how they paid £500 more for the same machine nib 6 months ago!
Ashbo
Site Supporter
Number of plays, as machine prices increase will sadly be a measure.
There will be a point in a machines life the number of plays means less and overall condition means more.
I wonder how many plays my Sorcerer has had
There will be a point in a machines life the number of plays means less and overall condition means more.
I wonder how many plays my Sorcerer has had
My take is that the people questioning the number of plays as opposed to looking at the condition of the machine are probably relatively new to the hobby and probably only interested in fairly recent low play Stern’s because they perceive them as being less risky or more reliable.
I think the sort of people who end up regularly posting on here aren’t going to be as bothered, partly because most of us have found out that hard way that a lower play or even NIB machine doesn’t guarantee that it will be problem free, and partly because most eventually become interested in slightly older games at which point the question becomes irrelevant. Let’s face it - you aren’t going to be asking the number of plays question about a game from the 90s or earlier.
Once people get over that worry I’m sure they won’t be comcerned re a few extra plays on their machines. When I’ve done temp trades the biggest concern for me is the risk of them getting damaged in transport. I hope they’re going to get played otherwise what’s the point.
Asking questions when you are dropping £1000s on a Pin (or any expensive purchase) is only natural, especially when you can't see it in person.
As above the number of plays is only a question for modern Pins where the lifelong plays are recorded.
A low play HUO Pin is more desirable than a comparable routed high play one, and the price should reflect that.
If a seller was reluctant to say the number of plays it would be a red flag to me.
Being honest is always the best way.
As above the number of plays is only a question for modern Pins where the lifelong plays are recorded.
A low play HUO Pin is more desirable than a comparable routed high play one, and the price should reflect that.
If a seller was reluctant to say the number of plays it would be a red flag to me.
Being honest is always the best way.
Highlnder00
Site Supporter
It's no different than wanting to know thee mileage of a second hand car??
Would you buy a car not knowing the milage??
If people want to ask that question they are entitled to? they are the potential buyer?
