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Stern Have Woken Up

Gonzo said:
I'm torn on this part about remaking old games.

Part of me would love a LOTR remake. But I'm not sure I'd be thrilled to see Stern cost cutting on one. They made a big fuss about a plastic bucket in Jaws being an 'original sculpt'. Are they really going to pack the playfield with models? I somehow doubt it.

However, if they did LOTR well on a spike 2 without cost-cutting I'd buy one immediately (after selling some stuff 😂).


As for the LE's . . . . I'm quite sure they'll make anniversary and special editions.
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I doubt LOTR would happen the rights are difficult, Warner bro no longer hold the rights, it's some sort of Swedish gaming company, Amazon bought the TV rights for £250 million for the toilken estate to do the ring of power. But the toilken estate don't own the LOTR rights. Very complicated set up 💰🤷‍♂️

Ghostbusters or walking dead I could see happening.
 
Something at Stern has changed.
God knows what direction they will go but something had to change because of the economic climate and their effective monopoly on pinball production being eroded by other companies producing better built machines.

The UK perception of Stern is slightly skewed by the ‘Electrocoin tax’. Pretty much everywhere else they are the ‘Ford’ of pinball. The price reflects the quality, except in the UK. I think this is a restructuring / repositioning within a changed market place. It’ll be interesting to see which direction they go, what machines they reproduce and how. The big question for me is whether the UK market is important enough for them to address the elephant in the room and do something about the UK pricing…

Right now I have to agree with whoever said this was a load of ”guff”. Make an accurate and unambiguous statement for once in your lives Stern.
 
Juggler Spencer said:
Something at Stern has changed.
God knows what direction they will go but something had to change because of the economic climate and their effective monopoly on pinball production being eroded by other companies producing better built machines.

The UK perception of Stern is slightly skewed by the ‘Electrocoin tax’. ….
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Juggler Spencer said:
The big question for me is whether the UK market is important enough for them to address the elephant in the room and do something about the UK pricing…
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If the Tax was corrected (highly unlikely, but let’s speculate), do you think this could or would make any tangible difference?

I don’t think something like -10% lower prices is anywhere near enough, more like -25% maybe, at least for Pro & Premium. I can’t see that happening unless the market drops off almost entirely and we’re back to the Bally/Williams-esq close-outs of pinball folklore.
 
Monkeyboypaul said:
If the Tax was corrected (highly unlikely, but let’s speculate), do you think this could or would make any tangible difference?

I don’t think something like -10% lower prices is anywhere near enough, more like -25% maybe, at least for Pro & Premium. I can’t see that happening unless the market drops off almost entirely and we’re back to the Bally/Williams-esq close-outs of pinball folklore.
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I see your point, but certainly bringing Stern machines closer to European pricing would be an improvement. Not suggesting that they price match to the USA. However, it is odd that every other sales territory enjoys a much more level playing field…

On a side note about remakes: Stern is walking a tightrope doing any remake with different technology or changes to the original spec / technology. If ever there was a formula that was destined to **** people off in some way; re-making machines would be it. If they make machines to the exact spec of the original; all would be fine. Changes, updates, revisions just make a two-tier back catalogue that skews the market in a way that has never been done before (and probably for good reason).

Now you could argue that CGC have done something similar, but my personal opinion is that CGC have walked that line very well. They produced desirable machines to the original spec at a ’reasonable‘ price in numbers that have not disastrously affected existing vintage machine prices and desirability. Add to that the fact that they are not the original manufacturer and you have a pretty good high wire act right there.
 
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Gonzo said:
Sounds like a load of old guff. The LE buyers are still highly likely to see better versions than theirs produced.
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This is exactly the point that Stern seem not to have grasped, and whilst they obviously understand they have an issue in this department, they have not yet allowed greed to step aside.

To say buy with confident and that they are supporting value retention is utter b******s even after both recent press releases.
 
The odd thing here is that Stern make a statement and we all fall around discussing the impact. It’s blatently obvious that Stern is a major factor in our hobby and we obviously care to some degree or another what they decide to do. It affects the games we love and the residuals of the games we have bought and yet we are back to ambiguous ‘cloak and dagger’ announcements that send us all into a speculative nose dive. This is not indicative of a healthy relationship between a company and the loyal customers and fanbase that actually support it. Rumours and whispers rule this industry and I have no idea why we put up with it.
 
Pick Holder said:
Yeah - we will wait and see on that one.....

The amount of people who import one pinball machine - then realise it is hassle with all the customs/vat/any damage etc.....

Electrocoin wont help you with any faults/replacement parts under warranty as it is a grey import.

I also remember the same Neil mentioning he wont pay more than £10K for an LE.
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Neils probably imported over 10 games from the US alone in the last 24 months
 
Juggler Spencer said:
On a side note about remakes: Stern is walking a tightrope doing any remake with different technology or changes to the original spec / technology. If ever there was a formula that was destined to **** people off in some way; re-making machines would be it. If they make machines to the exact spec of the original; all would be fine. Changes, updates, revisions just make a two-tier catalogue that skews the market in a way that has never been done before (and probably for good reason).

Now you could argue that CGC have done something similar, but my personal opinion is that CGC have walked that line very well. They produced desirable machines to the original spec at a ’reasonable‘ price in numbers that have not disastrously affected existing vintage machine prices and desirability. Add to that the fact that they are not the original manufacturer and you have a pretty good high wire act right there.
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Some changes they could do without p**ssing off owners of the earlier versions. Art blades, invisi-glass, shaker motor, custom shooter rod, or powder coating can easily be added to an older machine and so some of those could be included as standard on new premium release.

Would an LCD version of Ghostbusters or Game of Thrones have a big enough market (and low enough licensing costs) for them to completely update the code I'm not so sure; also don't know if Spike 1 machines can run the screens that are in Spike 2 machines.
 
Paul said:
This to me is exactly this issue.... Even with local taxes and stuff, these are cheaper in the EU than they are here with similar taxes. Someone needs to break Electrocoin's monopoly....
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Some have tried, but Electrocoin have a long personal relationship with Larry Stern that is not likely to change.

The logical answer is to “circumvent Electrocoin“. As an individual this is certainly possible, if you can find a dealer in another territory willing to ship to you.
However, that may not be such a solid solution. Stern have a fragmented distribution model that keeps the numbers of machines limited to resellers. It involves having lots of small resellers rather than a smaller number of large ones. This means that not one single reseller has enough buying power to dictate terms to Stern. The upshot of this is a reseller model where Stern has the control over who gets what (and how many), where and how. We have already seen how shirty they get if you try to circumvent Electrocoin. Emails get sent, words are spoken, support is withdrawn etc. An individual may ‘get away’ with it for a while providing they keep it a secret, but one sniff of it and it could end pretty quickly.

The market is changing. It may result in changes. Who knows?
In the mean time we have machines that don’t come through Electrocoin, that are often higher quality than Stern offerings, at the same price as a Stern. Pay your money, take your choice, pray for change. 😁
 
Agree with all of that the reality is if electocoin sold direct to customers and offered a service or they didn’t exist as the intermediary then we would basically be close (within £250-300) to usd for gbp in pricing £7 pro, £10k prem , le £13k
 
It’s tricky to judge what the ‘landed’ price would be. Probably easiest to take the price of a NIB French machine and convert to GBP from EUR.

I know the old joke that goes ”How do you become a millionare making pinball machines. Start off a billionaire“ but there is money in selling pinball machines. People do make a living at it (and fair play to them).
Retailers do offer a pretty generous warrenty service (despite precious little support from some manufacturers). They do earn their money when things go wrong and stand by their customers when sometimes it really isn’t their fault. A prime example is when a faulty machine gets sent out and the retailer sends a guy out on site to fix it FOC to the customer. Don’t think for one minute that the manufacturer has covered that manpower cost.

I cannot see what a non-retailing distributer is bringing to the party. Every other manufacturer allows a retailer to act as distributer and sort out the importing, storage and retail of machines. Only Stern insists on Electrocoin acting as a distributor. As far as I know it brings nothing to the party other than a huge price hike? Please correct me if I am wrong about this. Every day is a school day. 😁
 
So what can we do? It's very British to do absolutely nothing about being stuff like this. As I understand it the reason Stern will only deal with Electrocoin is because they buy the required volume. The only way around is to either convince Stern to do smaller shipments or get the dealers to pool together and buy bulk direct as a group. Neither seems likely?
 
We can blame Electrocoin but Spooky games don't go through them do they?

CE LT/TCM msrp $9700
= £7637 x 1.2 VAT = £9164
They are currently listed at £10995 so that's a mark up after vat £1831, more than the mark up on a stern.
 
Jib said:
We can blame Electrocoin but Spooky games don't go through them do they?

CE LT/TCM msrp $9700
= £7637 x 1.2 VAT = £9164
They are currently listed at £10995 so that's a mark up after vat £1831, more than the mark up on a stern.
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You have to factor in transport though (£600-800 ish). See this post on the relevant thread:

Spooky Pinball - Looney Tunes & TCM

They both look amazing. TCM has it a bit over LT for me but I think they both look the mutts nuts! On the website tomorrow morning ready to pre order! Phil Very exciting indeed any prices yet phil
www.pinballinfo.com
 
Fubar said:
You have to factor in transport though (£600-800 ish). See this post on the relevant thread:

Spooky Pinball - Looney Tunes & TCM

They both look amazing. TCM has it a bit over LT for me but I think they both look the mutts nuts! On the website tomorrow morning ready to pre order! Phil Very exciting indeed any prices yet phil
www.pinballinfo.com
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Absolutely, I'm not saying a Spooky CE should be £9164 but I was directly comparing to a stern for the ‘electrocoin tax’ which also needs transport etc.
 
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From what Ive heard said the electrocoin tax is something like £1k plus VAT, then theres Phil cut on top of that.

I suppose one advantage with Electrcoin, which could explain the price disparity, could be possible lower shipping costs by them all coming in via the same route in bulk no matter who is selling them in the UK, where as for all the other makes the UK seller has to sort out their own shipping from where ever they ship them from.
 
Fantazia2 said:
I suppose one advantage with Electrcoin, which could explain the price disparity, could be possible lower shipping costs by them all coming in via the same route in bulk no matter who is selling them in the UK, where as for all the other makes the UK seller has to sort out their own shipping from where ever they ship them from.
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So on that basis, does that mean without electrocoin it would cost even more in the UK?
We are externally doooomed 🥶
 
Fantazia2 said:
No, would still be cheaper without them acting as a middle man, it doesn't cost £1k per cab to ship them over individually so a container full would be a lot cheaper.
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A distributor/retailer bring them in would still have the ability to ship cost effectively. A retailer earns his money by providing a service; warranty, spares, delivery logistics etc. Electrocoin provides no service I can see. Again, perfectly happy to be corrected on that one.
 
I think it’s a bit unfair the kicking electrocoin take about this there is absolutely no way they make 1k per pin
And are the only company willing to ship in huge quantities
You ask other pinball companies hld retro Dave liberty games room company how many pins they have in stock ready to go and the answer will be none or very little they just buy from electrocoin when they actually sell one and just display electrocoin s stock list
Ph probably the next biggest stockiest with machines ready to go
If electrocoin didn’t do this would any other uk company be willing to outlay what stern insist you need in stock probably close to a million quid and the answer is no
You won’t be all moaning next week when you are playing jaws on there stand at the London show
 
Why is it the other European countries seem to dodge this additional price gouging?
 
Marvello said:
What price are Europeans paying for Stern titles?
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pinball-universe.de

Neue Flipperautomaten von Stern Pinball und JJP kaufen

Neue Flipperautomaten von Stern Pinball und Jersey Jack Pinball (JJP) beim autorisierten Fachhändler PU in Bünde kaufen.
pinball-universe.de pinball-universe.de

Germany is 19% vat so almost the same
Jaws Pro £7405
Prem £9732
LE £13612

Plus £82 for delivery. Not sure on warranty

Edit - looks like 1 year warranty from when you receive it
 
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