South West League 2018

Wizcat

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Sep 9, 2011
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#92
It does actualy fit into this discussion about the SW league, because the SW has some of the highest IFPA ranked UK players. The fact they won't be playing in the UK league this season means that they won't be adding weight to the ranking that is awarded to everyone else playing in the league, and as a consequence the league players are awarded less WPPR points ... and so the circle turns

Although I agree that the majority of the best UK players are under-ranked, I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong about the IFPA ranking. The system requires people to compete for the rankings to work, so we need more UK comps and a wider audience of competitors (ideally some highly ranked US competitors)

I know there are a few of us that are passionate about the comp scene and I hope we can start to improve this over the next few years.
 
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Wayne J

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Jul 22, 2011
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#94
So the best player on IFPA ranking just happen to win the world championship so whilst it’s not perfect - it’s not a million miles away from it. Look at who was in the final and again it’s pretty close!
The ranking system works for those players at the top, who compete in the majority of high ranking tournaments - it also works to a lesser degree for those players ranked below 1000, just starting out.

Where it 'fails' miserably is for those players ranked 50-1000.

It is, and always has been, a ranking system based on achievement - not skill. That is what Josh has intended for it. The more you play the higher you rise, until you get to the top 20 or so. The IFPA does not want, and will not entertain the possibility of, a system which punishes poor play.

My own view is that if you compete in 50 events and do well in 20 of them, but fail in 30 of them you should be ranked considerably lower than someone who competes in 20 events and does well in 20 of them. Your bad results should effect your ranking - currently the system doesn't do this.

There is no 'skill' based system currently used, although the IFPA 'power 100' is a lot better indicator of skill for those who are ranked in the top 250. It is similar to a ranking system I had proposed to Josh. It turns out we had both been working on a similar idea independently.
 

alchy

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Sep 18, 2012
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#97
Really? So Louise Wagensonner is 8th best in the UK?
Louise Wagensonner I actually rate higher. She has not done many competitions since August last year. She actually makes efforts to attend tournaments rather than just talk about them and I have not only played against her but watched her play. She's a great all round player and would destroy most of the rest of the UK players. Remember you have to be in it to win it.
 

robotgreg

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Aug 11, 2011
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It still seems a mockery that someone who's never played in UK is listed under UK. Understand born here but surely you ought to at least play some comps here to count under UK. Anyway not a major issue but would have been interetsing if she'd got to no 1!
 
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Neil McRae

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It still seems a mockery that someone who's never played in UK is listed under UK. Understand born here but surely you ought to at least play some comps here to count under UK. Anyway not a major issue but would have been interetsing if she'd got to no 1!
It’s a bug then? I thought it was because she played in the UK once? I’ll emailed Josh and see if he can fix it.

Neil.


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Moonraker

Moonraker

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She's played at the UK Open when it was held at Daventry.

Not impressed with the off topic WPPR & Louise posts.

This is supposed to be about South West league & I guess UK league in general. Will framework be put in place to prevent a re-occurrence?

I see Wayne has now publicised a tournament at Electric Circus for Sunday 29th July.
 

BigIan

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Jul 21, 2011
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Utter nonsense!

how well do you know Lewis mate? How many times have you met him? How many times have you drank beer with him? How many times have you raced him?

You are right, I should have said he comes across (on sky) as totally spoilt. I guess if I had a drink with him or raced him I might warm to him, but as that will never happen I have to go with what my eyes, ears and gut tell me from watching on tv.

For the record I though Schumacher was a bit of a knob as well but also an incredible talent.

best Leave it there as there as enough debate going on in this thread as it is :thumbs:
 
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Wayne J

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Jul 22, 2011
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But from the UK which is more important.
So the list should read that the 7th highest ranked person in/from the UK is Jim Lindsay.

However, Jim chose to change his nationality to German (for the purposes of the IFPA), as that is the country he lives in and competes the most. Which seems like the correct decision to make.

Louise is able to change her country to US, if she so chooses.

I have joked with Josh about changing my nationality to Indian, or Nigerian so that I could become the highest ranked player in that country and get an invite to the World Championships, but the rule is that you must play at least 2 comps per year in your country of origin to qualify. (Otherwise we'd have the same situation as the 'England' cricket team where half of the players were born abroad, or the Republic of Ireland football team when Jack Charlton was manager)
 

Neil McRae

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I don't agree dood.

If she is British then she has every right to be in our listing and should be in our listing.

Having looked at the way the rankings work I don't know why anyone complains about them, they do exactly as described and don't try to be anything else. If you don't like them you are free to set up your own ranking system!

Regards,
Neil.
 

Wayne J

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Having looked at the way the rankings work I don't know why anyone complains about them, they do exactly as described and don't try to be anything else. If you don't like them you are free to set up your own ranking system!
What exactly do they describe? What are they claiming to be?

What they actually rank, and what people think they rank are vastly different.

Does it actually make a blind bit of difference, if a ranking system that doesn't rank skill, only who plays the most (and it doesn't necessarily matter who you play against), places any one person in any particular place?

The Power 100 is currently the best indicator of skill, but it only compares the 250 people with the most WPPR pts, and only shows the top 100.

I have actually extrapolated the data for all 250 of those players and it paints a very different picture for many of the players. There are actually 30 players who haven't played enough tournaments with ANY of the other top 250 to be able to compare them against.
A player ranked 37th in the world but hasn't played against anyone else in the top 250!
A player that has a 90.95% win record against everyone else ranked in the top 250, but is currently ranked 206th.
A player who has only ever won 6 tournaments out of 247 entered ranked in the top 100
How does that work?

Over the last few years I've also looked at lots of other data and statistics, total no. of 'losses' in power 100, no. of tournament wins, avg finishing position , avg pts earned per tournament, avg finishing percentile, total events, and many more. The current ranking system, based purely on top 20 pts earned, does not correlate to ANY other data, for players outside the top 25 or so.

I'll repeat again, this is purely about looking at the data and how it is used - nothing personal or criticising anybody for attending as many competitions as they want. It's merely showing that the IFPA ranking does not say that a player ranked 10th is better/ more skilful than (or even has a better chance of finishing above) a player ranked 100th , or even 5000th, for example.

The current system is ranking participation. If you want to increase your rank you need to play more, not necessarily better. That is what it was designed to do, and it does THAT well.
 

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robotgreg

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Is there any other sports ranking system that's not based on participation?

Eg golf, tennis, darts, snooker all.based on points or.prize money earned as far as I'm aware so all encourage you to enter as many events as possible.

Be interested to know if any sports (individual not team) do base on head to head or some other metric.

But surely if most/all.oher sports base on participation why should.pnball be different? Have all.other sports got it wrong?

I agree IFPA ranking not.perfect but imho they do best they can to be as accurate as possible.

We suffer in UK because of the 64 player base for points which we rarely meet so always not going to get many points from UK comps but it's not just about the points!!😀

You couldld argue that many more points available in US comps but to be fair most players in US will have to travel as far as we would to Europe so same as us going to Europe where there are more points.