I agree - it's worth having a pop at them for this is youare a creditor. I haven't seen the report but I can guess what it shapes up like.
Pinball info
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New Heighway Owner
- Thread starter mufcmufc
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They were the overwhelming majority shareholders anyway.
They had their existing shareholdings, plus everything Andrew had.
Assuming this(link) held true, but with Andrew's shares being distributed between Spohr, WW & Umbrella, they held 91.4% of the company as of the takeover.
I don't think any of the board designs were patented (someone correct me if wrong). So it would probably make far more sense to have another, separate company supply them - one without a huge and inflating debt burden (as the scope and scale of creditors were uncovered and bleed continued).
Since they undoubtedly intend to take Andrew to the cleaners in court, it would be very foolish of them not to play things by the book.
But then, there has been a lot of foolishness ...
You can't patent printed circuit boards - not possible in any country. They "might" be classed as copyright but a few small changes to the PCB layout render that argument moot.
We'll see, but it could have been something as simple as the OEM not being willing to supply boards or keep the account open to a company with a giant debt burden, even if the balance was paid off after they took over.
Or it could have started that way, then they got desperate, and something bad started happening.
I hope not.
The thing that still amazes me is that these 'investors' were successful business men from Scandinavia (??). If that was the case then why did they invest in the first place and even more so, when they saw it failing, think it was a good idea to invest more money and take over. Couldn't be that good at business then.
£2m net loss, astonishing
https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2018/05/10/heighway-pinball-by-the-numbers/
https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2018/05/10/heighway-pinball-by-the-numbers/
***********REMOVED Direct cut and paste from Pinball news At request from Martin (and to be fair i would have removed it anyhow).
IF any legal proceedings are in place, disclosing this document, which is indeed marked private and confidential, could have ramifications, therefore best that it's not here!
Cheers
Paul
IF any legal proceedings are in place, disclosing this document, which is indeed marked private and confidential, could have ramifications, therefore best that it's not here!
Cheers
Paul
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Just a wow
200 aliens would cover PB 800k costs that they have hidden away it looks like +- a few sold or on test.
Cointaker look the biggest losers @ £ 80k and more if you count all the refunds they paid there customers kudos to them (a go fund them should be done ) from there customers minus there tax rebate they will get.
200 aliens would cover PB 800k costs that they have hidden away it looks like +- a few sold or on test.
Cointaker look the biggest losers @ £ 80k and more if you count all the refunds they paid there customers kudos to them (a go fund them should be done ) from there customers minus there tax rebate they will get.
D
Deleted member 2463
Nuts just nuts.
No doubt how much of a fail Andrew Heighway was. But the board of the company whilst he was there also failed big time in enabling him to do the stupidity that he did.
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No doubt how much of a fail Andrew Heighway was. But the board of the company whilst he was there also failed big time in enabling him to do the stupidity that he did.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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No way would it cover their or the company's costs. I had heard the assumption was 30-40 a month could just about cover costs, on takeover. I heard later that it would need to be double that. They say 100 now. Usual pinch of salt, but I suspect they were bleeding money out of their ****.
RS-Pinball (Austrian & by extension German distributors) lost way more. The investors lost way, way more. In total, original pre-orders lost way more. There's no way people should be doing GoFundMes for distributors, especially not when staff exist - Dave particularly.
So, let me get this straight.
You assume
That Pinball brothers,Looking at the document lost 820k stg and lets say 100-200 pins complete ,semi complete missing the odd part , play fields and any cash that they wont receive any of their £820k owed that was let say sold/reclaimed by them wont get them solid?
RS also have 120k in there and are shareholders and they knew nothing about stuff heading to PB or maybe some pins made it to them by way of ? or have a stake in New company ?
Investors that were not shareholders agreed lost cash and unlikely to get anything.
Pre orders and full paid guys ,yes agree they lost lesson learned not alot can be done to help them.
Distributors/ Coin taker . Look to have lost £80k plus what ever they paid back to customers . who order a machine on customers behest like phil from heaven does for uk guys and because they do that get hit with a whammy that could put most business out service and
you say that any of there customers that were made solid should not try help them out? even though they stopped an order that clearly has helped there customers not get shafted with dodgy machines?.
Sorry maybe i am a bit wrong in thinking their community should look after them as they did there customers .if phill was to take a whammy like that and go out of business (from what i seen/heard of phill he would not be that stupid to deal with andrew anyways)where would people buy machines in the future.
If i investing into something and it went tits up id not expect any cash back as it was a major gamble even bigger one with andrew at the helm.
But i think pre and full orders and distros need to follow up and get the share holders brought into it to pay them.
Ok i might be talking out my **** here sorry having happy day my divorce came in today and on the beer so might regret what i been saying here tomorrow.
Presumably the £75k owed to the Welsh Government is a grant that they were retroactively deemed ineligible for.
I would take the exact numbers on that document with a pinch of salt as I am listed on it and the figure by my name is 4.5x what I'm actually owed. I only ever paid £1000 deposit but the cost by my name was the agreed total I would pay for the machine.
With this in mind it's quite likely that the £80k was the total amount Cointaker were due to pay rather than what they did. Who knows? All will become clear eventually when things have been investigated fully by the liquidator. Regardless it's obvious already that the total loss is going to be a significant amount of money.
With this in mind it's quite likely that the £80k was the total amount Cointaker were due to pay rather than what they did. Who knows? All will become clear eventually when things have been investigated fully by the liquidator. Regardless it's obvious already that the total loss is going to be a significant amount of money.
I presume he had no rates to pay as an incentive from the government as a start up
Creative accounting?
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I dont think you get a tax refund, its a carried forward loss which can be used to offset future profit. I know because I did it with my other company.
D
Deleted member 2463
its just mental that the existing investors really had no clue about the state of the company and then bought it without any due diligence. They almost deserve to lose the money.
a factory you couldn't heat? You couldn't make that up!
Neil.
a factory you couldn't heat? You couldn't make that up!
Neil.
I am sure the CEOs office was heated.
I think the people who invested large sums probably can afford to loose it. I do not know this for sure but I definitely wouldnt say they deserve to loose it.
Andrew Heighway has the gift of the gab and is an amazing sales person.
How much due diligence do you need to do to visit the premises and realise that it's impossible to heat it with what heating equipment (if it existed) is in situ?
Or not investigate the equipment is leased with long contracts?
Makes you wonder what diligence happened at all.
Or not investigate the equipment is leased with long contracts?
Makes you wonder what diligence happened at all.
Eala Dubh Sidhe
Registered
I think the sit with that is Andrew got that grant on the proviso that he'd create local jobs with it. Don't know how many were promised, but it seems not enough were delivered.
The investors also wanted Andrew out a lot sooner than they were able to manage, but Andrew made sure to hold onto the controlling interest of at least 51 percent, so ultimately there was sod all the Scandinavians could do before the crunch came.
I can also explain part of the Pinball Brothers story... up till then, aside from pretty basic parts such as posts, fasteners and t-nuts, locally-sourced unique parts for each machine either weren't being ordered in great enough quantities at a time, or suppliers were being let down with waiting for payments. PB was set up in essence so that suppliers that were ****ed off would actually deal with us again, since the investors were disassociating themselves from Andrew that way. On the other hand, the stock of PCBs had been ordered in a set minimum quantity larger than that of other parts, and which needed using up; hence the boards marked 'Pinball Brothers' start showing up relatively late in the game's run.
As for me... note that the HMRC section lists two figures of around 25k, one marked as a 'penalty'. No need to explain what that was for. The investors really were doing their best to do right by me (we had an agreeable longer-term plan in place) but had inherited a lose/lose situation over this since back payment for me had to come, and be *seen* to come, from the company's own accounts - and said money just was not there. The HMRC wanted matters handled quickly, and that could have bankrupted the company all by itself at a stroke. :/
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Apologies if this is posted somewhere else on here, I thought it was relevant to this thread 
More info here https://speak1970.wixsite.com/slamspinballemporium
More info here https://speak1970.wixsite.com/slamspinballemporium
D
Deleted member 2463
mental just mental.
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Even before the whole Weinstein and #metoo thing blew up this theme was a very very very bad idea . Stern were pushing their luck in the early 2000s with their effort but now ?!? Come on - considering he had plans for world domination this shows someone very out of touch with current attitudes/culture.
Theme aside - layout looks ...'ok' , nothing particularly exciting about it.
Not right for most homes but would suits pubs etc..
