Too long, didn't read......I think........
Sold Indianapolis 500 - £3750
- Thread starter Hiltoncriss
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It's a great game. Probably overpriced if it hasn't sold by now.
Will be sad to see this leave the Pinball Office but love some of the recent additions. Appreciate all the hard work and time that goes into running the place @Hiltoncriss
Yeah it’s a favourite of mine also, so will miss it.
But it’s always nice to see new machines at the office, keeping things fresh
OP
OP
On hold till Monday…
This is my opinion only.
When I was looking for my first pinball a year ago, I read the articles and comments on Pinball Info to get purchasing information and advice. It got me a bit wary as scams seemed to be common and prices were on the high. I decided to go for a FT as it looked fun.
There was one on eBay that was going for £3200 but was not selling after being listed for two months ish. It was completely refurbished with new decals and shooter. It was in a really good condition.
I contacted the buyer and he told me that he was well known in the pinball community. He was refurbishing pinballs as a hobby. He did a great job at informing me and address my concerns. He agreed to lower the price to £2850 including transport.
I did the stupid thing to refuse. I was still concerned about overpaying following my readings on Pinball Info. He became upset with my refusal and had every reason to be. He was an examplary seller and spent time helping me. He relisted his FT shortly after as an eBay auction. He finally got £2750 for it. I lost the FT in part, because of the volatile and distrustful climate that exist in the pinball community.
A year later, I am now in a position to buy a second pinball. There were two FTs for sale this week. One sold for £3500 and the other is on it's way to sell for the same price. I contacted one of the sellers to get a better price, but he politely refused my lower offers. He did nothing wrong and was really nice, but I somehow felt upset.
It reminded me of the negativity and tension that currently exist on the forum. If I am being honest, I am envious of those who built their collection when prices were very low or have deep pockets to outbid me when I have an interest for a specific title. Some of them are sitting on a small fortune, while I struggled to find the money to buy my first machine. I cannot think of a hobby that is more expensive then collecting pinballs.
While it's not pleasant to be publicly criticised about pricing, I can understand why this happen. This hobby is out of reach for many people. I believe that newcomers have significant challenges to get a start on it, without breaking the bank or having to buy unpopular or less interesting pinballs. The frustration, envy
I personally believe that hoarding is the main cause of pinball scarcity. There is obviously new people (me) interested in the hobby, but I bet that the vast majority of newcomers and pinball veterans are over 45 (me). They want to experience once again the activities of their youth.
Because of their age, many have access to a large disposable income (no mortgage, inheritance, higher salary) and can afford large expenses. This (I think) cause a divide between those who have and those who have not. That age group push the price of pinballs higher and higher. It's hard to believe and deeply frustrating that many interesting pinballs were around £2500 a year ago.
The pinball companies are counting on them to sell their "special editions" at eye watering prices, and outside the reach of most pinball enthousiasts. Their business model is built on that premise.
My last thought. In my opinion, when that generation gets older and abandon the hobby, the popularity of pinball will slowly diminish. My children, young adults and their friends have no desire to carry on the hobby, when asked the question. It is not part of their life experience.
With respect
When I was looking for my first pinball a year ago, I read the articles and comments on Pinball Info to get purchasing information and advice. It got me a bit wary as scams seemed to be common and prices were on the high. I decided to go for a FT as it looked fun.
There was one on eBay that was going for £3200 but was not selling after being listed for two months ish. It was completely refurbished with new decals and shooter. It was in a really good condition.
I contacted the buyer and he told me that he was well known in the pinball community. He was refurbishing pinballs as a hobby. He did a great job at informing me and address my concerns. He agreed to lower the price to £2850 including transport.
I did the stupid thing to refuse. I was still concerned about overpaying following my readings on Pinball Info. He became upset with my refusal and had every reason to be. He was an examplary seller and spent time helping me. He relisted his FT shortly after as an eBay auction. He finally got £2750 for it. I lost the FT in part, because of the volatile and distrustful climate that exist in the pinball community.
A year later, I am now in a position to buy a second pinball. There were two FTs for sale this week. One sold for £3500 and the other is on it's way to sell for the same price. I contacted one of the sellers to get a better price, but he politely refused my lower offers. He did nothing wrong and was really nice, but I somehow felt upset.
It reminded me of the negativity and tension that currently exist on the forum. If I am being honest, I am envious of those who built their collection when prices were very low or have deep pockets to outbid me when I have an interest for a specific title. Some of them are sitting on a small fortune, while I struggled to find the money to buy my first machine. I cannot think of a hobby that is more expensive then collecting pinballs.
While it's not pleasant to be publicly criticised about pricing, I can understand why this happen. This hobby is out of reach for many people. I believe that newcomers have significant challenges to get a start on it, without breaking the bank or having to buy unpopular or less interesting pinballs. The frustration, envy
I personally believe that hoarding is the main cause of pinball scarcity. There is obviously new people (me) interested in the hobby, but I bet that the vast majority of newcomers and pinball veterans are over 45 (me). They want to experience once again the activities of their youth.
Because of their age, many have access to a large disposable income (no mortgage, inheritance, higher salary) and can afford large expenses. This (I think) cause a divide between those who have and those who have not. That age group push the price of pinballs higher and higher. It's hard to believe and deeply frustrating that many interesting pinballs were around £2500 a year ago.
The pinball companies are counting on them to sell their "special editions" at eye watering prices, and outside the reach of most pinball enthousiasts. Their business model is built on that premise.
My last thought. In my opinion, when that generation gets older and abandon the hobby, the popularity of pinball will slowly diminish. My children, young adults and their friends have no desire to carry on the hobby, when asked the question. It is not part of their life experience.
With respect
I'm not entirely certain what points you're trying to make.This is my opinion only.
When I was looking for my first pinball a year ago, I read the articles and comments on Pinball Info to get purchasing information and advice. It got me a bit wary as scams seemed to be common and prices were on the high. I decided to go for a FT as it looked fun.
There was one on eBay that was going for £3200 but was not selling after being listed for two months ish. It was completely refurbished with new decals and shooter. It was in a really good condition.
I contacted the buyer and he told me that he was well known in the pinball community. He was refurbishing pinballs as a hobby. He did a great job at informing me and address my concerns. He agreed to lower the price to £2850 including transport.
I did the stupid thing to refuse. I was still concerned about overpaying following my readings on Pinball Info. He became upset with my refusal and had every reason to be. He was an examplary seller and spent time helping me. He relisted his FT shortly after as an eBay auction. He finally got £2750 for it. I lost the FT in part, because of the volatile and distrustful climate that exist in the pinball community.
A year later, I am now in a position to buy a second pinball. There were two FTs for sale this week. One sold for £3500 and the other is on it's way to sell for the same price. I contacted one of the sellers to get a better price, but he politely refused my lower offers. He did nothing wrong and was really nice, but I somehow felt upset.
It reminded me of the negativity and tension that currently exist on the forum. If I am being honest, I am envious of those who built their collection when prices were very low or have deep pockets to outbid me when I have an interest for a specific title. Some of them are sitting on a small fortune, while I struggled to find the money to buy my first machine. I cannot think of a hobby that is more expensive then collecting pinballs.
While it's not pleasant to be publicly criticised about pricing, I can understand why this happen. This hobby is out of reach for many people. I believe that newcomers have significant challenges to get a start on it, without breaking the bank or having to buy unpopular or less interesting pinballs. The frustration, envy
I personally believe that hoarding is the main cause of pinball scarcity. There is obviously new people (me) interested in the hobby, but I bet that the vast majority of newcomers and pinball veterans are over 45 (me). They want to experience once again the activities of their youth.
Because of their age, many have access to a large disposable income (no mortgage, inheritance, higher salary) and can afford large expenses. This (I think) cause a divide between those who have and those who have not. That age group push the price of pinballs higher and higher. It's hard to believe and deeply frustrating that many interesting pinballs were around £2500 a year ago.
The pinball companies are counting on them to sell their "special editions" at eye watering prices, and outside the reach of most pinball enthousiasts. Their business model is built on that premise.
My last thought. In my opinion, when that generation gets older and abandon the hobby, the popularity of pinball will slowly diminish. My children, young adults and their friends have no desire to carry on the hobby, when asked the question. It is not part of their life experience.
With respect
Take the FT. It was originally offered for £3,200 - but due to comments on here regarding overpricing you asked for a better price, and got offered £2,850. You still declined and the seller got upset.
He sold it on eBay and only got £2,750?
I would say from the above, that I'm not surprised he was upset. He got £450 less than he had advertised it for originally, and £100 less than you were prepared to pay.
Also the advice about overpaying from here was spot on.
I can think of dozens of hobbies more expensive - which price me out of them. Powerboat racing for 1 example.
I don't go on to a Powerboat racing forum to complain that I'm priced out of joining rhe hobby, and it's blocking new people - I just accept that until I won the lottery I won't be able to take part, likewise I can't afford every NiB LE that's released.
One thing I can do with pinball machines is go to any number of locations and play them on site for as little as 50p.
Blaming the fact that the prices are too high on other people hoarding them is ridiculous, and comes across as entitlement and jealousy of the worst kind. Hes got 20 machines and i want one but I can't afford it, they should sell me one of his at a price I want.
If someone wants to buy a machine and then set fire to it or throw it off a cliff, that's their choice entirely. If I came into unlimited money the very first thing I'd do would be to set up a standing order with Pinball Heaven for every new release that came out, followed by chasing up every game I could fit in to my newly acquired mansion.
This isn't "having a go" or "toxic", it's my opinion.
The 2 real reason prices are spiralling, as well as basic economics of supply and demand is people who have bought maybe half a dozen machines maximum stating that a particular machine is "a great price", "this won't last long", "if I had the money.." etc. etc. When in fact they don't have the experience to be able to compare across the whole market. It seems that these people tend to be very active on the forum and like to comment on virtually EVERY for sale thread.
The other reason is the belief that they won't lose money on a machine, regardless of whether they overpaid in the first place, or bought from a dealer, so they think they got a bargain and advertise their machine at an inflated price, in the hope that someone else will pay over the odds.
The market is not over priced because supply does not meet demand be it new or old machines. Prices will continue to go up in the short to medium term. This is driven by newbies and existing owners adding to their collections plus manufacturers being unable to scale up quickly enough. I do not consider it an expensive hobby because pinball machines are not depreciating assets and have not been for the last 20 odd years. There will be a peak in demand after which prices will start to erode. Don’t know when that will be, but at some stage baby boomers will move into aged care or start dying off and this might be the start of waning demand. Otherwise you need the likes of Stern and JJP to boost production several fold or a Chinese new entrant if you want to increase the supply side.
Whats the acronym for "read, got shot down, bailed" ?
Forum has become a little depressing recently, most threads turning into whinge fests prices are high guess we just have to deal with it.
I also think pinball is in a bubble like others have said, once every one in there 30+ is in a home no one else will care and the boom will be over.
Enjoy it while you can!
prices are high guess we just have to deal with it.I also think pinball is in a bubble like others have said, once every one in there 30+ is in a home no one else will care and the boom will be over.
Enjoy it while you can!
Agreed, your positivity is refreshing dude,
There is some really awesome people in this hobby and some amazing machines,
OP
OP
My last thought. In my opinion, when that generation gets older and abandon the hobby, the popularity of pinball will slowly diminish. My children, young adults and their friends have no desire to carry on the hobby, when asked the question. It is not part of their life experience.
With respect
I won’t comment on the first part of your post as Wayne already did.
I would like to add my thoughts on the above part. My daughter grew up surrounded by pins as I’m collecting them for over 22 years now. Between the age of 2-5 she didn’t show much interest. When she was 10 she started to enjoy them slightly. Now, at 12 she really likes them. Of course that Nintendo is still her No.1, but for a kid that has every console and game available, to always gravitate towards Pins it’s very interesting to see. My son started to love them at the age of 5. Now, he’s 6 and there is rarely a week without pinball playing.
My points. I do understand that from the kids that grow without pinball, I don’t see more than 0.02% probably gravitating towards pinball in their lifetime. So not much hope for them saving the pinball industry.
But then there are our kids, the kids that grew up with pinball even more than we did. For example did we have a pin in our house when growing up? I certainly didn’t. But still, just playing them on location here and there cemented the love for pins forever.
I’m wondering if my kids will take this further or just forget about it when they will be adults. Probably they will forget about Nintendo as well not only pins. Probably not. I’m wandering if when my daughter will marry and move to her own place if she will ask her dad for a pin or two to put in their new house…
At The Pinball Office I have kids each week. Most of them, about 95% never seen a machine. I’m happy to report that over 80% of them remain engaged for the whole 4h long session. The ones that loose interest are teenagers. They play for a bit and after that sit down and look at their phone screens for the rest of the session. So yes, 80% isn’t bad…
I would consolidate this post a bit more to make more sense but I have to dash off to the office, have my coffee and start the day with a play on a pin. Because a good day always has to start with a coffee and a good old (or new) game of pinball.
Chris
you guys.... Going to have to bail before I go full Will and Paul has to delete my accountDunno need some sort of entertainment around here
OP
OP
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Pay the price or moan. Or be silent. Those are the options available. You went with moan. Simple as that.
OP
OP
Indy back for sale as the buyer arrived to collect but left with a different pin that I had for sale.
This is a great point (and far more interesting than the price of pins imo).
In essence will pinball machines become nostalgic for our kids? Will they get to their 40's and decide to have a machine or two because the Spike 2's will be 'retro'?
I certainly hope so.
Firstly it would be fantastic to see the hobby continue.
Secondly I can sell Deadpool to my son for £100,000
OP
OP
A very generous dad indeed!This is a great point (and far more interesting than the price of pins imo).
In essence will pinball machines become nostalgic for our kids? Will they get to their 40's and decide to have a machine or two because the Spike 2's will be 'retro'?
I certainly hope so.
Firstly it would be fantastic to see the hobby continue.
Secondly I can sell Deadpool to my son for £100,000
A very generous dad indeed!
These kids have got to learn Chris . . . .I'll start reducing his pocket money now and set him up a 'Deadpool fund'.
OP
OP
Looool. I was thinking to do something similar with both of them. A standing order for a few pins that I don’t want anymore, with inflation calculated in the price as well. In this case I won’t have to post for sale ads on the forum anymore.
I just hope that the kids will appreciate that they get real value for money from their dad
As I would say to my kids, posting for sale ads on pinfo is character building.
I'm not entirely certain what points you're trying to make.
Following the various comments about negativity in the forum, I took the risk of being honest and upfront about my thoughts and feelings. I wish it was not the case, but certain comments or situations about the hobby gets to me more than they should.
Take the FT. It was originally offered for £3,200 - but due to comments on here regarding overpricing you asked for a better price, and got offered £2,850. You still declined and the seller got upset.He sold it on eBay and only got £2,750?
This is right. I was unable to assess the value of a pinball at the time.
I would say from the above, that I'm not surprised he was upset. He got £450 less than he had advertised it for originally, and £100 less than you were prepared to pay. Also the advice about overpaying from here was spot on.
I hope to meet him again to apologise for my insensitive attitude.
I can think of dozens of more expensive - which price me out of them. Powerboat racing for 1 example.
I don't go on to a Powerboat racing forum to complain that I'm priced out of joining rhe hobby, and it's blocking new people - I just accept that until I won the lottery I won't be able to take part, likewise I can't afford every NiB LE that's released.
One thing I can do with pinball machines is go to any number of locations and play them on site for as little as 50p.
Your a bigger man then me. I would like to enjoy the hobby without breaking the bank.
Blaming the fact that the prices are too high on other people hoarding them is ridiculous,
I disagree. I mentioned that this could be an important part of the problem, but it does not necessarily explain the whole situation.
and comes across as entitlement and jealousy of the worst kind.
I agree. This is the reason why I made myself vulnerable to judgements and criticisms in this forum. Instead of blaming others for the climate of negativity, I took the approach of looking at myself.
I find it a bit harsh to reiterate the same criticisms that I already disclosed about myself in this discussion.
Hes got 20 machines and i want one but I can't afford it, they should sell me one of his at a price I want.
I would appreciate that you don’t put words into my mouth. I have no idea when you bought your first pinball and how much you paid, but I suspect that it was not under the current price situation.
I did not call for charity, only for a bit of empathy. I only mentioned how frustrating it is to be a newcomer in the mist of volatile prices, and my personal opinion on what is causing this situation.
If someone wants to buy a machine and then set fire to it or throw it off a cliff, that's their choice entirely. If I came into unlimited money the very first thing I'd do would be to set up a standing order with Pinball Heaven for every new release that came out, followed by chasing up every game I could fit in to my newly acquired mansion.
This isn't "having a go" or "toxic", it's my opinion.
I am glad that you mentioned that, as what I wrote on this forum is also my opinion. If I have hurt anyone, then I am sorry.
The 2 real reason prices are spiralling, as well as basic economics of supply and demand is people who have bought maybe half a dozen machines maximum stating that a particular machine is "a great price", "this won't last long", "if I had the money.." etc. etc. When in fact they don't have the experience to be able to compare across the whole market. It seems that these people tend to be very active on the forum and like to comment on virtually EVERY for sale thread.
The other reason is the belief that they won't lose money on a machine, regardless of whether they overpaid in the first place, or bought from a dealer, so they think they got a bargain and advertise their machine at an inflated price, in the hope that someone else will pay over the odds.
The market is not over priced because supply does not meet demand be it new or old machines. Prices will continue to go up in the short to medium term. This is driven by newbies and existing owners adding to their collections plus manufacturers being unable to scale up
You said that hoarding machines (adding to collection) had no effect (is ridiculous) on prices.
quickly enough. I do not consider it an expensive hobby because pinball machines are not depreciating assets and have not been for the last 20 odd years. There will be a peak in demand after which prices will start to erode. Don’t know when that will be, but at some stage baby boomers will move into aged care or start dying off and this might be the start of waning demand. Otherwise you need the likes of Stern and JJP to boost production several fold or a Chinese new entrant if you want to increase the supply side.
Another for sale post de railed !
its really no wonder why people are preferring to use ebay/ Facebook/gumtree etc
Dont see the need to comment and criticise on the price of pins for sale, if you think it’s ovepriced, then move on and read another post.
Machines will either sell or they won’t !
I feel sorry for people putting machines up for sale on here, getting notifications of comments on the post, just to see people bickering and going backwards and forwards.
yes we all have opinions, but sometimes, it’s best to keep them to yourself !
its really no wonder why people are preferring to use ebay/ Facebook/gumtree etc
Dont see the need to comment and criticise on the price of pins for sale, if you think it’s ovepriced, then move on and read another post.
Machines will either sell or they won’t !
I feel sorry for people putting machines up for sale on here, getting notifications of comments on the post, just to see people bickering and going backwards and forwards.
yes we all have opinions, but sometimes, it’s best to keep them to yourself !
OP
OP
Spot on!
OP
OP
I’ve wanted to take some more detailed pictures today. But I think I’m just wasting my time. Nobody wants to buy the machine. But most want to moan about the price. Yesterday Dr Who sold in minutes for £3800. Is Indy 500 a worse title than Dr Who? No, it’s not. It just needs the right buyer. just taking out the new legs and Comet LEDs puts this game at £3450. I think that’s not bad…
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