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Flipper Strength

Yes I replaced the cabinet switches for the new ones pictured on 22/3 which PMania commented on.
 
Moonraker said:
Did you ever replace the cabinet flipper switches...? :hmm:
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Ahh damn, I can't read sometimes. Just realised I replaced cabinet switches and not EOS switches as said so many times moonraker.

Right, I'll get shopping again. I thought they were one and the same thing initially. I'm thick!
 
I would be looking at possible binding or set up issues. My LOTR has standard coils and plays fine even after a couple of hours play. Yes the coils get hot but not to the point where I cannot play the game. The updated settings for the coils can really have a big effect on keeping them cooler.
 
The special coils are suffixed -Lotr. They are stronger because they have less windings so less resistance. This means they would run hotter. As stoptap said, both should get hot but not overly affect power. So you may be looking at binding which occurs when dimensions change due to warming up. You need to check the spacing to the playfield bushing and any other contact points. In theory a poor eos switch could cause excess heating. If it has poor contact then cpu may be holding high power on longer than needed. Fans should not be required if everything else is working properly.
 
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stoptap said:
I would be looking at possible binding or set up issues. My LOTR has standard coils and plays fine even after a couple of hours play. Yes the coils get hot but not to the point where I cannot play the game. The updated settings for the coils can really have a big effect on keeping them cooler.
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Thanks for that
pinballmania said:
The special coils are suffixed -Lotr. They are stronger because they have less windings so less resistance. This means they would run hotter. As stoptap said, both should get hot but not overly affect power. So you may be looking at binding which occurs when dimensions change due to warming up. You need to check the spacing to the playfield bushing and any other contact points. In theory a poor eos switch could cause excess heating. If it has poor contact then cpu may be holding high power on longer than needed. Fans should not be required if everything else is working properly.
Click to expand...
Been busy and not had time to check in recently guys. Thanks for the advice, it is appreciated.

It would seem unlucky for the issue to be there during the ownership of the last guy (John from Glasgow who had a good 40-50 pinballs in his collection) and then when I do a flipper rebuild, the issue still be there, yes I'm a novice but he certainly wasn't. And we'd both of had to get it wrong in the same way wouldn't we?

If I'm honest, I am not certain what this bushing/binding issue mentioned actually is. Reading the help sheet in the link below, stern recommend updating the cpu rom but after having looked in the menu twice, I cannot find the roms installed.
Do you guys know the menu to look in?

Was this the updated settings you were talking of Andrew?

ps my Ring entry ramp spinner is at the wrong forward facing angle, is there a method to re twist it, it looks solid on the axle and gravity is doing me an injustice! This is not the main issue but it certainly won't be helping as it is a definite slower down.

I was on another great game the other night, I destroyed the ring, flippers were normal to me which means I could play but there's no way that if a ball was held in the ring, I could knock it out with that second ball, luckily getting up close with a shot still worked. As soon as I destroyed the ring, it tarts popping and flashing as it should and then crisis struck, flippers only worked intermittently or worked very very very weak or hit as they should. It was as if the game had a brain fart. However, I am wondering if there is a software issue.

I got straight under the playfield to get an idea of heat, the coils were warm but I could hold fingers on them both. Unfortunately, I turned it off and went to bed, 5 minutes later though I thought it best to get back up n play on to see if it was heat related or software related. The outcome was inconclusive as it had had 5 minutes to cool, I "think" I had one or two weak flips but then got my name on the scoreboard.

It really is peeing me off!
 
Just wondering, as a temporary solution test, would it be worth unwinding the coils 5% to test if the lower resistance help with the overall power issue?
 
Some good advice already given. It will be something very simple so cover the basics first.
1. Check your soldering on both coils is correct. All cored wire is soldered to the lug.
2. Is it both or just one of the flippers which fades? You should be looking for a common factor in this sequence of flipper fade.
3. Check both flippers in turn for free movement over there full arc. Do this gently by hand, also, when flipper is at rest lift it up and down. You should be able to feel clearance between the shaft bushing and the flipper. If there is no clearance here then it will bind due to friction and heat transfer. Ensure both flipper return springs are strong enough to return flipper swiftly back to its rest position.
Sometimes it's natural to over-think a problem which may lead you into unrelated areas. Check over all the work you have carried out and ensure it is good.
So you can remember make a list of any adjustments and tests you have carried out so you don't overlook anything.
ATB
John.
 
When you destroy the ring the game is SUPPOSED to go crazy. All the lights flash, the coils fire and the flippers flip by themselves. The game goes dead and then launches the ball back into play for you to continue the game.
 
When the game boots it tells you the software revision on the DMD. What version do you have ?
 
kevlar said:
If it isn't showing software version on boot I'm guessing its something that's skipped if fast boot is selected, if it is selected ( standard adjustments ) try setting it to NO.
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Yep that works thanks and it's version A10 for both cpu & display so it appears that isn't the problem either.
 
pintableuser said:
Some good advice already given. It will be something very simple so cover the basics first.
1. Check your soldering on both coils is correct. All cored wire is soldered to the lug.
2. Is it both or just one of the flippers which fades? You should be looking for a common factor in this sequence of flipper fade.
3. Check both flippers in turn for free movement over there full arc. Do this gently by hand, also, when flipper is at rest lift it up and down. You should be able to feel clearance between the shaft bushing and the flipper. If there is no clearance here then it will bind due to friction and heat transfer. Ensure both flipper return springs are strong enough to return flipper swiftly back to its rest position.
Sometimes it's natural to over-think a problem which may lead you into unrelated areas. Check over all the work you have carried out and ensure it is good.
So you can remember make a list of any adjustments and tests you have carried out so you don't overlook anything.
ATB
John.
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Thanks John,
1) Not sure what lug is but all coil vicinity wiring looks good n proper.
2) Both flippers are weak to the point they couldn't dislodge a ball held in the ring so it's not just fade. The other night was first major fade event of its kind since the flipper rebuild.
3) Full arc rotates freely. Lifting flippers, the is the most minor clearance play of 1mm or less on both. Springs have adequate return pull too.

Maybe it is time to replace EOS switches despite it being said they're not as relevant on this machine?

ps Entry to ring spinner is at wrong angle, this won't help that fade problem but will not help dislodge ring.
Is this a new part required? I looked at adjusting it but couldn't figure the re-alignment as it's just gravity holding it's wrong position. Or should I clamp the side wire and twist it on its axis?
 
Marcel said:
ps Entry to ring spinner is at wrong angle, this won't help that fade problem but will not help dislodge ring.
Is this a new part required? I looked at adjusting it but couldn't figure the re-alignment as it's just gravity holding it's wrong position. Or should I clamp the side wire and twist it on its axis?
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Try re-aligning gravity, failing that a gentle twist of the spinner compared to its switch actuator ( gentle, you don't want to break it )
 
Had some success, spinner altered and ring much easier to hit.
Destroy the ring reached but as before, it isn't powerful enough to knock a ball out but just held the second ball also. This is an improvement but they're still not powerful enough.
 
Stoptap, I already checked flipper settings out s while ago but I will revisit that thread and advice to refresh myself on those.
As things stand, more umf is needed:)
 
stoptap said:
If you have the latest code then you need to be looking at your flipper settings. There are a load of threads on Pinside discussing this issue. You need to set the flippers so that they use the smallest amount of power possible to play the game.

Have a look at this then search for more.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lotr-overly-powerful-flippers-is-eos-used-in-lotr
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Well I've given it a good few games over the last day and a half, I set flipper settings 53-55 back to factory settings and I also left the game in the standard start mode as opposed to fast boot.

The results are mixed. I'm hitting the ring more often still as the spinner is no longer a hindrance and I have not noticed any limp flipper actions as before when they just had a spazzy fit and would hit halfway up the field on odd occasions.

Unfortunately though, I still feel that it is not quite as powerful as it should be. When you consider the part of the game that requires you to knock that held ball out of the ring when it's held up, I am sure it should be a proper thwack.

I have just about had it with this problem now, I have had so much help from you guys and it has actually got me to a better place but I am now thinking the uprated coils are worth a punt. Only issue is I'm on holiday in a few days so better not order the parts until I return.
 
Marcel said:
Well I've given it a good few games over the last day and a half, I set flipper settings 53-55 back to factory settings and I also left the game in the standard start mode as opposed to fast boot.

The results are mixed. I'm hitting the ring more often still as the spinner is no longer a hindrance and I have not noticed any limp flipper actions as before when they just had a spazzy fit and would hit halfway up the field on odd occasions.

Unfortunately though, I still feel that it is not quite as powerful as it should be. When you consider the part of the game that requires you to knock that held ball out of the ring when it's held up, I am sure it should be a proper thwack.

I have just about had it with this problem now, I have had so much help from you guys and it has actually got me to a better place but I am now thinking the uprated coils are worth a punt. Only issue is I'm on holiday in a few days so better not order the parts until I return.
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Just noticed that you are in Huddersfield. Just down the road from me. If you want to come spend an hour on my LOTR to compare you are more than welcome.
 
Thanks for the offer that's great. I may leave this until after my holiday now if that's ok.

Can you knock the held ball through on your game? It is not so often I actually get there but when I do it's blooming annoying to hit accurate but suffer weak shots.

I am actually thinking that some of my shots are not 100% clean which is why they're weak but then again some I hit clean and they're weak.

Funny thing is I hit 272 million other day and wondered if that would even be possible with less then perfect power. Basically I am unsure of myself now.
 
Marcel said:
Thanks for the offer that's great. I may leave this until after my holiday now if that's ok.

Can you knock the held ball through on your game? It is not so often I actually get there but when I do it's blooming annoying to hit accurate but suffer weak shots.

I am actually thinking that some of my shots are not 100% clean which is why they're weak but then again some I hit clean and they're weak.

Funny thing is I hit 272 million other day and wondered if that would even be possible with less then perfect power. Basically I am unsure of myself now.
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272 million doesn't sound like a score on a game with weak flippers. Do you have it on factory settings and three balls ?
I can hit the ball through the ring but it isn't a guaranteed easy shot.

If you want to come try mine (at any time) just give me a PM. You can play my other games too if you have time.
 
It was a very good game, my PB. I have just never knocked or come close to knocking that ball out. Having said that, I've probably only had 20 opportunities. But, you get a feel for it and the number of shots that I have hit up that ramp "at any" stage of the game that have had the oomf is not so many despite the hundreds of games played.

Yes that offer to try your game is very generous, I may take you up on that after my holiday. I'll be in touch.
 
Marcel said:
It was a very good game, my PB. I have just never knocked or come close to knocking that ball out. Having said that, I've probably only had 20 opportunities. But, you get a feel for it and the number of shots that I have hit up that ramp "at any" stage of the game that have had the oomf is not so many despite the hundreds of games played.

Yes that offer to try your game is very generous, I may take you up on that after my holiday. I'll be in touch.
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As well as the angle of the spinner you can also tweak the operation of it. You want the switch to activate with as little friction as possible. I tweak it and also put a tiny amount of oil on each pivot point.
 
BTW, I have a 5 ball game and the outposts are in the most generous position.

Maybe it's time to take the training wheels off, when I was learning it was a must as the rules were so deep.

Yep I tweaked spinner resistance too:)

Pics of last game just now, I hit 40m on two towers multiball which included a jackpot 7, never heard the 7 before.uploads.tapatalk_cdn.com_20170524_806c5539c40e4ce79d7910d6f250eef7.jpguploads.tapatalk_cdn.com_20170524_2e4689f30d24cf7d25ae0011cd5e6f0d.jpg
 
If it's just a case of not enough power on the shot to dislodge the ball then the lack of power may be caused by the top of ramp alignment leading to the ring hole rubbing off the power/speed of the ball...
 
Just finished a game Moonraker, I was on destroy the ring with a ball held. I went up the ramp 3 times and not one registered the hit.
Non were good solid full speed balls either.

One in ten shots on target hurtle up the runway with gusto, most are grabbed and even pulled in by the ring magnets as they're feeble and therefore, when a ball is already held, the magnetic pull is reduced as it's already working.

I'm also concerned if I get upgraded coils they'll alter the relationship with other shots.

Maybe your right, I could lower the final part of the ramp but in reality, my eyes are telling me balls are slower many times and bullet like sometimes.
 
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