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In Progress Williams - Travel Time
- Thread starter James
- Start date
if flippers are not working after the reset look at schematic, and see what relays are in series with the power to them. Find the one that is open that should be shut, supplying power or return to neutral and work from there. When yo simulated the ball in the out hole, did you take your pointer away form the switch or did it continue to think a ball was there and try to kick it out? If it continued, do look at the back glass / ball count wiper and see if the balls are counting down. It may be cycling through all balls and going to game over...
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Thanks @Biff - the game runs on time not on ball count unfortunately. I had another look over it and weirdly when the motor runs for a game to be in play solenoids (not the one to kick the ball out unfortunately) do actually work... i.e pop bumpers, flippers etc. it seems to be only at a certain point as this was held down...
The kick out solenoid never fires with a ball in the lane.
The kick out solenoid never fires with a ball in the lane.
The flippers are a very simple circuit.
If you follow the RED wire up on the schematic, they're activated by NC switches on the GAME OVER RE. and RESET RE. both of which are NC hence those Relays must be de-energised (or tripped if a latch/trip type). Those switches must be good as the flippers work per your video snip, so one (or both) of those relays is activating.
If you follow the RED wire up on the schematic, they're activated by NC switches on the GAME OVER RE. and RESET RE. both of which are NC hence those Relays must be de-energised (or tripped if a latch/trip type). Those switches must be good as the flippers work per your video snip, so one (or both) of those relays is activating.
So the Outhole Relay is pulsing as the score motor turns whilst the ball remains in the Outhole. That makes sense as the ball isn't moving on for whatever reason.
Can you confirm which mech coil is supposed to eject the ball from the Outhole, is it this one below "Eject Coil" wires Yellow-Orange/black?
Can you confirm which mech coil is supposed to eject the ball from the Outhole, is it this one below "Eject Coil" wires Yellow-Orange/black?
or it could be this one "Ball Release Coil" wires Blue-White/Red
In either case Check switches A and C on score motor CAM 5 are making good contact and clean - how are you cleaning switch contacts btw?
In either case Check switches A and C on score motor CAM 5 are making good contact and clean - how are you cleaning switch contacts btw?
So if I'm understanding correctly, it's just a croc-clips job diagnosing this circuit.
Is a switch on the outhole relay so either the switch is not making true or the coil is dead or the red feed is not live. I Think
Agreed, or motor switch 5-A not closing, or dodgy Jones plug connection, or break in above somewhere...
James needs to hit the DMM and/or croc clips to break down the above
James needs to hit the DMM and/or croc clips to break down the above
The Black feed we looked for last weekend with the 15A fuse ends its journey in the 'Reset relay' on one of the switches, it is then called Blue-Y-W and goes onto a switch on the 'Game over Relay' where it comes out as RED, probably in name only.
Both reset and game over relays should be unlatched. That coil should have 24V pulsing across it as the outhole relay pops on and off.
Both reset and game over relays should be unlatched. That coil should have 24V pulsing across it as the outhole relay pops on and off.
I just don't understand how the red feed can be activated and then off again through the reset relay and the score motor ? They are all that are changing state and yet the flipper will activate and turn off in conjunction with these?
So the red feed is being switched on and off, Lets go back down its line and see where that can happen.
If the power on black was dropping off the motor would stop, so its not there.
Next up is the reset, relay. Make sure that is not pulsing on and off at all ?
Then the game over relay, does that do anything when the machine is pulsing ?
If the power on black was dropping off the motor would stop, so its not there.
Next up is the reset, relay. Make sure that is not pulsing on and off at all ?
Then the game over relay, does that do anything when the machine is pulsing ?
@Moonbus @astyy @Biff @AlanJ - gentlemen, sit down, pour a drink, I managed a whole minute on the game.
I adjusted up the switch in question so the contact was solid and cleaned with some IPA and it appears good and shiny and I got a whole game out of it, however it then shut down and the sparking is back, I take it the switch is FUBAR and needs taking out and putting a known good one in?
I adjusted up the switch in question so the contact was solid and cleaned with some IPA and it appears good and shiny and I got a whole game out of it, however it then shut down and the sparking is back, I take it the switch is FUBAR and needs taking out and putting a known good one in?
Yay, at least you know where the issue is.
it may be to do with the switch plate or the springs.
it may be to do with the switch plate or the springs.
Nice! You may not get the switch contacts shiny enough with IPA alone, I use Dremel Carbon brush 443 (aka pinside Dremel sabre), once used the bristles splay like a cotton bud end which you can dab gently between the contacts in situ (importantly you're cleaning, not adjusting), then swab clean with coton bud IPA, repeat as necessary. It's very gentle process and gets good results.
Well done!
Crikey, I have been busy, clearing the garage meant clearing the little shed, a trip to the tip, posting things on Gumtree, selling things on Gumtree, a job for MIL for her plant pots beings as I was in the garage... if you are doing anything, my view is don't tell the wife...
These look scorched will they still work after cleaning??
These look scorched will they still work after cleaning??
If the contact lug is intact they should be ok. These games switched some heavy loads and thus arcing is inevitable, as you saw in your video, and that arcing creates crud that makes things look worse then they are.
I was watching your video of the arcing at 0.25 speed and the flash seems to be before the game-over relay twitches so cleaning this is the best step now but there may be another cause of this.
I was watching your video of the arcing at 0.25 speed and the flash seems to be before the game-over relay twitches so cleaning this is the best step now but there may be another cause of this.
yes - dont mess - they will all work I bet
Btw - MIL? Not heard of that one - Im more familiar with the F on the end.
Btw - MIL? Not heard of that one - Im more familiar with the F on the end.
Mumsnet has a lot to answer for
The plot thickens....
After reviewing your arcing video in slow motion and reviewing the picture where you were inspecting the contacts something does not make sense.
The switch stack is made up of 5 sets of switches, 3 singles, and 2 doubles.
If you find all these on the schematic they look like this...
Notice how all the single switches are closed. On your unit the switches are all open. To me this indicates that the unit state is represented as latched in the schematic, most others relays are drawn on the schematic as unlatched.
Also, in your arcing video the game over relay seems to keep on trying to latch but is not able to. What should happen is (*) the big coil pulls the switch plate down and then the little metal plate in-front of the small coil locks the switch plate in the 'latched' position. When like this both coils on the game over relay do not have power running through them. Upon a game ending, the small coil is powered and the switch plate pops back up cutting power to the playfiled. Once that step is done, again power is removed from the coil. It stays like this until a new game is ready to be started where we loop back to the (*) above.
I suspect that either the big coil is damaged. Check its resistance with one lug unsoldered, or the little spring on the big coil plate is tight. Either way, make sure the unit is able to latch and unlatch cleanly and you should be at the end of this headache..... for now
After reviewing your arcing video in slow motion and reviewing the picture where you were inspecting the contacts something does not make sense.
The switch stack is made up of 5 sets of switches, 3 singles, and 2 doubles.
If you find all these on the schematic they look like this...
Notice how all the single switches are closed. On your unit the switches are all open. To me this indicates that the unit state is represented as latched in the schematic, most others relays are drawn on the schematic as unlatched.
Also, in your arcing video the game over relay seems to keep on trying to latch but is not able to. What should happen is (*) the big coil pulls the switch plate down and then the little metal plate in-front of the small coil locks the switch plate in the 'latched' position. When like this both coils on the game over relay do not have power running through them. Upon a game ending, the small coil is powered and the switch plate pops back up cutting power to the playfiled. Once that step is done, again power is removed from the coil. It stays like this until a new game is ready to be started where we loop back to the (*) above.
I suspect that either the big coil is damaged. Check its resistance with one lug unsoldered, or the little spring on the big coil plate is tight. Either way, make sure the unit is able to latch and unlatch cleanly and you should be at the end of this headache..... for now
