Williams Funhouse Start Game Issue

[Blueband]

Hello everyone!

I recently bought my first pin here in Germany.

I'd been looking for a Williams Funhouse for years; it's been my favorite since it came out, but they're not so easy to find over here. I finally found one that's had one owner since the nineties. It's seen pretty light (home) use, but still needed some work. I'm bit of a newbie but I learn pretty fast.

I've replaced bulbs, gummies, and various other parts, and everything was working fine. But yesterday, the start button mysteriously stopped working. I've seen that this isn't a super uncommon problem, but it is pretty frustrating.

First thing I did was replace the AA battery holder with a coin cell board, which I was planning to do anyway. There was no visible corrosion damage to the board, but I still cleaned the area around it carefully with vinegar, water and alcohol. After reinstallation, it was working well, saving settings and scores, but the start button still didn't start a game.

Next I replaced start button assembly; no change.

I started looking closer at the wiring, and when I pulled a connector from the coin door board, the start button suddenly started working. I cleaned off the connector, and it worked fine last night and this morning.

Then it stopped working again. This time pulling, cleaning and replacing the connectors didn't work.

The start button responds the tests, both the switch edges and single switch tests. Likewise, the trough switches all work; they show open without balls, closed with balls. Lamp, flasher, switch and solenoid tests all check out. I checked the fuses; nothing seems amiss.

So...anybody have any ideas? Is it more likely a problem with a board, or a dodgy wire or connection? Maybe a bad diode? Anybody else dealt with this problem before? It's frustrating to get this far and then run up against a showstopper problem that prevents the game from starting at all.

 

[russdx1]

I had something similar on my ES which is probably similar system? Make sure all the balls are in the game and all the switches are detecting them, the game won’t start if it can’t detect them all (or at least this is how ES used to behave)

 

[Blueband]

I had something similar on my ES which is probably similar system? Make sure all the balls are in the game and all the switches are detecting them, the game won’t start if it can’t detect them all (or at least this is how ES used to behave)

Thanks for your answer! Balls are in the game, and the trough switches work; the tests show open without balls and closed with balls. What has me mystified is that the computer recognizes the start switch, it works on the tests, but won't let it do its job. I would suspect a wire connection more if it failed the switch tests. It seems like a board issue; like something got cooked along the way, or there is an issue with a solder joint, or it is a ROM issue.

 

[DRD]

Funhouse is an early WPC game, Earthshaker is a System 11 so despite the massive similarities in the two titles, they have different boardsets

Do all the other switches work as they should? Especially, conical pendulum tilt, slam tilt, coin door tilt etc etc etc

Test, either in game mode with the glass off or in switch test. Vibrate the machine a little/ bang the playfield - see if you have any switches on "hair triggers" giving you points for no reason. I would test evey switch manually to see if anything unusual happens

Bad/ overheated/ tarnished connectors and pins cause all manner of chaos. You could have cracked header pin solder on the cpu board

Funhouse may have a coin door board just inside the game near the conical pendulum.

How about you trace the wire from the problematic switch to this board, then along to the backbox to look for connector problems. Consider reflowing solder over the two relevant sets of pins if you are confident with a soldering iron

 

[Blueband]

Funhouse is an early WPC game, Earthshaker is a System 11 so despite the massive similarities in the two titles, they have different boardsets

Do all the other switches work as they should? Especially, conical pendulum tilt, slam tilt, coin door tilt etc etc etc

Test, either in game mode with the glass off or in switch test. Vibrate the machine a little/ bang the playfield - see if you have any switches on "hair triggers" giving you points for no reason. I would test evey switch manually to see if anything unusual happens

Bad/ overheated/ tarnished connectors and pins cause all manner of chaos. You could have cracked header pin solder on the cpu board

Funhouse may have a coin door board just inside the game near the conical pendulum.

How about you trace the wire from the problematic switch to this board, then along to the backbox to look for connector problems. Consider reflowing solder over the two relevant sets of pins if you are confident with a soldering iron

Thanks for your answer, DRD! I've gone through and tested all the switches a couple of times using the in-game diagnostics, and they seem to be working as they should according to the switch edges and single switch tests. I am assuming it is normal for the opto switches to be normally closed? I have purchased some replacements for switches that work but are likely on borrowed time.

I took out and reflowed all the solder connections for the coin door board, and no change. I'm reticent to do that on the CPU board, as so much more can go wrong. I might just replace the board instead.

the main thing that still doesn't make sense: why does the computer recognize the the switch as normal during the tests, but won't start a game? Seems like there's either a fried board, IC or diode, or a secondary problem somewhere else that is causing this.

 

[drhex]

Hi,
If the start switch is recognized some condition for game start isn‘t met, usually balls in trough. Feel free to PM me and we can continue in German.

 

[DRD]

You could try triggering the start button switch with a jumper lead.....

Unplug the relevant connectors from the MPU board relating to the switch rows and columns. You can identify the relevant pins you need by looking at the wire colours on your start button or they should be listed in the manual

Now manually trigger the start button with the jumper lead by touching the relevant pins of the row and column. This will eliminate all the playfield wiring and should isolate whether your problem is board/ pin/ software related or wiring loom

Many owners fashion a test rig to do this so you create a single "female" connector that holds the wire in place so you can more easily test using one hand

You can then compare how the game works in switch test v attract mode

 

[Blueband]

Hi DRD,

Thanks again! Yes, I have bridged the start button connector pins on the CPU board (pins J209-3 & J207-1), and I'm getting the same results as from pressing the start button itself. The machine recognizes the button in test modes, but will not start a game. This rules out the switch and wiring to the switch, correct?

This leaves other possibilities:

1. another start condition is not being met,
2. a problem with a PCB or diode, or
3. some kind of software issue.

I have checked the trough ball switches and they are also recognized in test mode as open with no balls, and closed with balls loaded.

Any thoughts? What else could I be missing?

- Matthew

You could try triggering the start button switch with a jumper lead.....

Unplug the relevant connectors from the MPU board relating to the switch rows and columns. You can identify the relevant pins you need by looking at the wire colours on your start button or they should be listed in the manual

Now manually trigger the start button with the jumper lead by touching the relevant pins of the row and column. This will eliminate all the playfield wiring and should isolate whether your problem is board/ pin/ software related or wiring loom

Many owners fashion a test rig to do this so you create a single "female" connector that holds the wire in place so you can more easily test using one hand

You can then compare how the game works in switch test v attract mode

 

[DRD]

When you do switch test the coin door is probably open. This may put tension on the wiring between the start button and coin door board that is not present when the coin door is closed. This suggests a bad connector/ snapped wire (but good external plastic coating) leading to the start button.

Try switch test with the coin door open - don't move the coin door again/ leave it open and under tension. Then exit the test mode. Now try to start a game

Sorry, but is the game on freeplay or do you need to manually put credits on it ?

Are you getting errors on startup ? are your 2x alphanumeric displays working properly so you can see what these errors are ? The game might not start if there are unread error codes

Are you getting adequate voltages at all the touchpoints, especially the critical 5v one ?

At this stage I would do a board swap from a working WPC title/ put in a known good board. Swap in the MPU from a known good game and put your Funhouse ROMS in it.

If this reveals a problem board/ software issue - put fresh ROMS in your original Board. If it's the board that is bad - I would send the mpu away for repair

 

[Blueband]

When you do switch test the coin door is probably open. This may put tension on the wiring between the start button and coin door board that is not present when the coin door is closed. This suggests a bad connector/ snapped wire (but good external plastic coating) leading to the start button.

Try switch test with the coin door open - don't move the coin door again/ leave it open and under tension. Then exit the test mode. Now try to start a game

Sorry, but is the game on freeplay or do you need to manually put credits on it ?

Are you getting errors on startup ? are your 2x alphanumeric displays working properly so you can see what these errors are ? The game might not start if there are unread error codes

Are you getting adequate voltages at all the touchpoints, especially the critical 5v one ?

At this stage I would do a board swap from a working WPC title/ put in a known good board. Swap in the MPU from a known good game and put your Funhouse ROMS in it.

If this reveals a problem board/ software issue - put fresh ROMS in your original Board. If it's the board that is bad - I would send the mpu away for repair

Hello again,

Yes, switch tests have been done with the coin door open, but I've also exited test mode and tried starting games to no avail. I've even bridged the the start button connector pins on the CPU board (pins J209-3 & J207-1), and I'm getting the same results as from pressing the start button itself. The machine recognizes the button in test modes, but will not start a game.

No errors on startup. Alphanumeric displays pass the display tests. Upon factory reset, the machine goes through the boot up sequence, then enters attract mode. Rudy wakes up normally when I add credits, but the game won't start when I press the start button, which is flashing BTW (I know that is a different circuit, but it is a sign thst the machine has accepted credits and is ready to start).

I have a new CPU board and ROMs on order. Haven't measured voltages yet, but it's on my list next. What is perplexing is that everything worked fine, until it didn't. It's just frustrating to have gotten everything working, except the game won't start. But we'll get this...

 

[carl lawrence]

Is the game set up on free play or credits ?

 

[cmrl9]

Long shot not something to do with the jumper switches that you set on the board for region. I can't exactly remember on the Williams, but I remember something about jumper switch that you set based upon certain regions.

 

[Blueband]

Is the game set up on free play or credits ?

I've tried it both ways; doesn't seem to matter.

 

[Blueband]

Long shot not something to do with the jumper switches that you set on the board for region. I can't exactly remember on the Williams, but I remember something about jumper switch that you set based upon certain regions.

There are soldered-in jumpers on my CPU board, which is set to German, not surprising because that's where I live.

 

[Blueband]

UPDATE: Replaced the CPU board and ROM today; it's now at L9, with DIP switches set for US. I replaced the sound ROM as well. Sounds better, there are a few new menu optionsnow--but the Start Button problem still persists! Everything works, all solenoids and switches work, the tests recognize the start switch and ball trough switches, but it will still not start a game.

I'm at my wit's end. Any further suggestions from anyone?

 

[AlanJ]

Is there an option to clear the memory out on this game? or perhaps go through all the settings and check they are ok and nothing is corrupted?

Is it on free play or do you need to add credits?

Are all ball trough switches correct in order for a game to start?

Have you got the correct number of balls in the game ?

Any switches closed that shouldn’t be? Any switches open that shouldn’t be?

My hunch is a switch matrix error, but you say you’ve tested all in switch test…..

 

[DRD]

Can of petrol. Match. Burn it.

 

[Blueband]

Is there an option to clear the memory out on this game? or perhaps go through all the settings and check they are ok and nothing is corrupted?

Is it on free play or do you need to add credits?

Are all ball trough switches correct in order for a game to start?

Have you got the correct number of balls in the game ?

Any switches closed that shouldn’t be? Any switches open that shouldn’t be?

My hunch is a switch matrix error, but you say you’ve tested all in switch test…..

Thanks for your help and ideas! This is getting to be pretty frustrating...

I've done several factory resets, and today I replaced the entire CPU board and game ROM. If that doesn't entirely empty out memory or settings, i don't know what would.

I have it set to free play and have added a bunch of credits. It doesn't seem to make a difference either way.

Three balls are installed. The ball trough switches register as closed with balls in, and as open with balls removed.

Switch tests all seem to check out; everything is open except for the opti switches (which are normally closed) and the trapdoor switch (which is closed when the trap door is down).

My next step is opening up the ball trough area and seeing if anything looks weird.

 

[Blueband]

Can of petrol. Match. Burn it.

Everything works...except that I can't play the game. This is my first pin, not going to give up so essily. Gotta figure this out.

 

[DRD]

Could this be a 5v issue ? Rather than it resetting the game when you fire all the flippers, it stops you from ever starting one ?

That dodgy ribbon cable from the mpu to the solenoid board ?

 

[Blueband]

Could this be a 5v issue ? Rather than it resetting the game when you fire all the flippers, it stops you from ever starting one ?

That dodgy ribbon cable from the mpu to the solenoid board ?

I'll check these out tomorrow. Thanks!

 

[russdx1]

If swapping the CPU board out makes no difference it sounds like a switch matrix fault? Like a short somewhere? Game for some reason is detecting something it does not like and not starting a game, all feedback is via the swifch matrix?

 

[Blueband]

If swapping the CPU board out makes no difference it sounds like a switch matrix fault? Like a short somewhere? Game for some reason is detecting something it does not like and not starting a game, all feedback is via the swifch matrix?

That's what it seems, but why do the switch tests read accurately for each switch, then? Can the CPU still read each switch accurately in the matrix even if there is a short somewhere? The game also behaves the same even when I bridge the contacts on the CPU board itself.

What happens when the start switch is pushed...what is the sequence of events? Does the CPU do a logic check for closed ball trough switches, check for credits, and then fire the ball trough solenoid to start the game? I'm just wondering if the game is failing some kind of prerequisite game condition check when the start button is pushed, and then failing to start a game.

 

[russdx1]

I would be reseating every connector I could find to do with the switch matrix, something dodgy going on there. It will know there are credits as that’s just checking some ram location then will check switches (ie balks in trough etc.. so it can pop one out and depending on the game check other stuff. It’s not happy about something. If it was working but is not know must be a loose connector somewhere. I think I had something similar on my NBAFB I restated all the ball through opto connectors and that fixed it.