What are your thoughts on UKPinfest 2020 if it takes place? - POLL

Will you attend UKPinfest 2020?


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Martywolfman

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Unfortunately I'm with the majority here, I wouldn't risk it this year at least, and just hope the situation improves drastically by next year. It's a real shame, I always look forward to pinfest immensely.

BUt I couldn;t stand to wear a mask all day for several days. I have to wear them for up to around half hour at a time, several times a day, while I'm at work, and find it extremely uncomfortable even for just that long, with my specs on the verge of being steamed up the whole time. I can't imagine choosing to wear one for 8 hours at a time while trying to play pinball looking through my half fogged specs. I simply wouldn't enjoy the event this way, unfotunately :(

I hadn't bought my tickets yet, as I was waiting to see if it would actually go ahead, but I'd actually still be happy to do so, even if it's cancelled, if it helped ensure the event is able to continue next year :)
 

thelab

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Vin! FFS!
If cancelling this event would leave you with losses @Big Phil, I think that we ought to have a crowdfunding on here to try and recoup something for you
Agreed, happy to forfeit at least my ticket costs this year if it helps to make up some of the losses and make an even better event next year.
 

Roy Smith

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We're now two months away. As the country slowly starts to lift restrictions, UKPinfest may be allowed to take place. There are so many variables in play and no one can predict where the world will be next week let alone in 2 months. It may mean a reduced number of machines. Spacing and a 1 way system. You may have to wear a face mask. Regular hand washing/sanitising.

Also, we don't know if excessive hand sanitiser use will affect decals around the buttons. Anyone care to experiment with their own machine?

So, for the sake of this poll, lets say UKPinfest is going ahead. Will you attend?

Could I only have those who were always planning on attending take part in the vote.

Please also give your feedback. Let's discuss.
I was in a Boots shop yesterday and the cashier was wearing a visor rather than a face mask. Seemed to be doing the job okay. I spoke to her about it and she said they had started with masks but with new guidance visors were now being issued and they were much more comfortable, to the point that she sometimes forgot she was wearing it.
 

Wayne J

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I'm amused by the fact that folks think things will be wildly different next year.

Short of a vaccine and assuming this doesn't mutate like flu this is the new normal. With the right precautions this could work and we would learn alot from this first show.

You going to hide in your houses for another year?
Because there is little evidence to say that a vaccine is imminent let alone actually deliverable.

Unless there is an incredible amount of luck and the everything went right there _might_ be a vaccine but I can’t imagine that will be the case. Look at testing - the failure rate just to test for this virus is ridiculously high.

I’m hopefully the old normal will be back but I’m less convinced it will be soon so I’m done with staying at home locked in when with measure things can be done to lower the risk so some sort of normality returns.

Cheers,
Neil.


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I'm glad you're amused, but I don't think anyone has suggested that things are going to be wildly different next year, just that people will have had more time to form an evidence-based opinion on what is happening. With the show only 8 weeks after the latest set of lifting restrictions come in to force - it will likely be too soon to make a judgement and then put everything in to making a major show work.

So far there has been no evidence that the virus is mutating anything like the flu. As the vaccines are focusing on the core proteins (which haven't changed since day 1), add to that the sheer effort that is being put in to finding a vaccine and I would say that there is a greater probability of finding a vaccine than not.

The testing of what? For having Covid, or the anti body test?

Tests on if you actually have Covid at the time of testing are also improving, especially those performed on hospital patients and workers - but more still needs to be learned. This will certainly improve over the coming months.

There are numerous antibody tests which have come on to the market - with varying efficacy. Some as low as 80% accurate, many with 99-100% accuracy. The poorer ones will be discarded and the more accurate ones will take over. Again this will happen over the coming months.
If you have the antibody current advice is that it MIGHT NOT offer any protection and to continue with social distancing and hygiene measures. That is because, with it being a new virus, nobody knows if you are immune after having it once. So advice given is that it doesn't. Can you imagine the $hit$torm that in the unlikely event you can catch it twice and people become ill or die after catching it again if the advice given had been you're safe?

Again more will be known in the coming months.

People aren't staying locked in, they are GRADUALLY moving about - jumping to a show with 300+ people crammed into a room playing pinball is hardly taking things slow.

It is your choice if you are done with staying at home, but as you quite rightly say things can be done to LOWER the risk - not eliminate it, people are making the decision based on their own evaluations of the risk and concerns that they are not going to attend a show. You would be classed as of higher risk (using the same criteria we are using in the NHS), based purely on being male and over 50. That is before any other factors are taken into account such as BMI, diabetes, ethnicity, kidney disease, liver disease, weakened immune system, lung condition. I would guess that a significant proportion of those who normally attend events will fall in to that category.

Not only is it each individuals choice to attend or not, it also indicates that enough people will not be attending the show therefore making it not financially viable. (Which was the whole point of this thread).

We will undoubtedly learn a lot from the first show - why not be that person to hold a major show? Run it at Flipout and all of the other people keen to run shows and comps can learn from it.
Would you be happy with 50+ people turning up to your house for a pinball comp?

All of the comments I have read have suggested postponing rather than cancelling altogether and they will never attend another show and stay locked at home.

Things are unlikely to go back to exactly how they were 6 months ago - many of these things for the good, such as:
increased EFFECTIVE hand washing, social distancing, isolating if you're ill, working from home for some.
But it will take time for many of these things to become the 'new norm'.

Pinfest this year has just come too soon to be viable.
 

Wayne J

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I was in a Boots shop yesterday and the cashier was wearing a visor rather than a face mask. Seemed to be doing the job okay. I spoke to her about it and she said they had started with masks but with new guidance visors were now being issued and they were much more comfortable, to the point that she sometimes forgot she was wearing it.
I haven't seen many people wearing just visors. We are wearing them in hospital for AGPs (aerosol generating procedures) in conjunction with an FFP3 mask.
Mask to protect nose and mouth, visor to protect eyes.
I will say they are much more comfortable than a mask, but don't provide the same protection.

As from last week the guidance in all NHS hospitals and community based activity is that a mask MUST be worn by EVERYONE at ALL TIMES while in the hospital.
We have stations on every entrance, masks are issued on point of arrival to everyone, after they have sanitised their hands. I need to wear one sat in my office alone, when I walk down the corridor, public or private, the only exemption is when eating or drinking. We are also attempting to stick to the 2m distancing.

Everything is about weighing up reducing the risk of catching and spreading the virus, against discomfort (and cost) of wearing PPE, people's mental health, the economy.

PS I have made some visors which are very comfortable to wear, but without a mask only provide reduced protection
 

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Wayne J

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Hahaha.. Dont even go there..... We have had THAT many towers burnt down due to people blaming them for COVID19, and then complaining that their service is Crap... couldn't make it up...
Just one example that their are too many morons out there who can't understand information given to them and to follow guidelines - not just in this country, but worldwide. If EVERYONE had followed guidelines, no matter how late they were implemented this would be over.

Hear me out:
If the R value (rate of infection) is greater than 1 the spread in exponential - That is why we see the outbreak in the first place.
If the R value is 1 the virus will remain at a constant level.
If the R value is less than 1 the number of people infected is reduced.

If EVERYONE had maintained STRICT guidelines and not left the house at all. The R Value would be very close to 0.
As such within 3-4 weeks the virus would have died out as infected people would have either A) recovered, and not passed the virus on - or B) died, and not passed the virus on.

But that would not have worked due to people 'knowing what is best for them' , complaining of a police state, and basically ignoring it anyway. That's before you take in to account the truly essential workers who had no choice but to go out and work to provide services that are essential.

Despite all of this people will still say the government is using people breaking rules, and ignoring guidance as deflection. (This isn't a political point supporting or condoning the current UK government - this happening in virtually every country in the world)
It basically comes down to people not want wanting to be told what to do, and thinking they know best and bend/interpret/break the rules to suit themselves because they know better. (EG How many people have driven at 75mph on an empty motorway because THEY have made the decision that it is safe to do so, despite the limit being 70mph?)
 

Paul

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Just one example that their are too many morons out there who can't understand information given to them and to follow guidelines - not just in this country, but worldwide. If EVERYONE had followed guidelines, no matter how late they were implemented this would be over.

Hear me out:
If the R value (rate of infection) is greater than 1 the spread in exponential - That is why we see the outbreak in the first place.
If the R value is 1 the virus will remain at a constant level.
If the R value is less than 1 the number of people infected is reduced.

If EVERYONE had maintained STRICT guidelines and not left the house at all. The R Value would be very close to 0.
As such within 3-4 weeks the virus would have died out as infected people would have either A) recovered, and not passed the virus on - or B) died, and not passed the virus on.

But that would not have worked due to people 'knowing what is best for them' , complaining of a police state, and basically ignoring it anyway. That's before you take in to account the truly essential workers who had no choice but to go out and work to provide services that are essential.

Despite all of this people will still say the government is using people breaking rules, and ignoring guidance as deflection. (This isn't a political point supporting or condoning the current UK government - this happening in virtually every country in the world)
It basically comes down to people not want wanting to be told what to do, and thinking they know best and bend/interpret/break the rules to suit themselves because they know better. (EG How many people have driven at 75mph on an empty motorway because THEY have made the decision that it is safe to do so, despite the limit being 70mph?)
I know this isn't the right place (Maybe this should be in the "C word" thread), however i cannot agree more with what Wayne has put here. I remember reading that if more than 90% had "stuck to the rules" then it would have disappeared in a month. As it was, adherence was around 55%... so it would never go away....

I am a key worker. NOT NHS front line like Wayne, however keeping some of the UK Infrastructure running for everyone. And believe me i have seen some sights in this period that really beggar belief... And if i never had to wear a facemask again it would be too soon...
 

Neil McRae

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I was in a Boots shop yesterday and the cashier was wearing a visor rather than a face mask. Seemed to be doing the job okay. I spoke to her about it and she said they had started with masks but with new guidance visors were now being issued and they were much more comfortable, to the point that she sometimes forgot she was wearing it.
You need both and gloves. face masks on their own won't prevent you from catching it. a mask/visor reduces the odds significantly but its still a risk.

The challenge in pinball is that the virus lives on stainless steel and glass for a _very_ long time. So gloves too! :D (Its like a night out in Teeside :).

They key issue with this virus is what we don't know about it. Every day a claim is made about it that only days later turns out not to be true.

Making bold statements about vaccines is troublesome when we still don't have a virus for the original SARS from 15 years ago (and MARS) - HIV has no vaccine. There is also a view that the only way to get immunity will be to have a seriously bad case of covid-19 infection in other viruses where this has been the case vaccine success has been variable.

In my view getting use to this possible new world and learning from it is important, I agree 300 people in that room is not wise but a smaller event for those that want to do something (maybe not pinfest) might be worth considering how it would work.
 

Neil McRae

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I know this isn't the right place (Maybe this should be in the "C word" thread), however i cannot agree more with what Wayne has put here. I remember reading that if more than 90% had "stuck to the rules" then it would have disappeared in a month. As it was, adherence was around 55%... so it would never go away....

I am a key worker. NOT NHS front line like Wayne, however keeping some of the UK Infrastructure running for everyone. And believe me i have seen some sights in this period that really beggar belief... And if i never had to wear a facemask again it would be too soon...
where did you get the 55% stat from?

Cheers,
Neil.
 

ianw

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It basically comes down to people not want wanting to be told what to do, and thinking they know best and bend/interpret/break the rules to suit themselves because they know better. (EG How many people have driven at 75mph on an empty motorway because THEY have made the decision that it is safe to do so, despite the limit being 70mph?)
No one does 70, no fun in that
 
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Wayne J

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yeah, he can google like all the other experts on facebook.
The fact that it's my job, and have been involved in the sourcing and use of PPE means I don't have to use Google.

Is that where you get all of your 'business ideas' from - that would explain a lot.
 
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Wayne J

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Gloves are used in a clinical setting to prevent cross contamination.

If you don't change the gloves after every single instance of you touching something they are absolutely of zero use. You also need to know how to put them on and take them off maintain sterility - having seen the way the vast majority of people are wearing face masks/coverings, I don't hold out much hope in that being the case.
In fact anybody entering the hospital is told to remove their gloves before being allowed in.

I refer to my previous statement about people thinking they know better and not following guidelines.
 
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Neil McRae

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The fact that it's my job, and have been involved in the sourcing and use of PPE means I don't have to use Google.

Is that where you get all of your 'business ideas' from - that would explain a lot.
You've given me a new one Wayne, a pinball machine in a clinical setting ;)

and sourcing? So its all your fault that you ran out? :rofl:

I had an almost romantic nostalgic picture of you at work Wayne which you have spoiled. I had you down as Henry the mild mannered janitor but now I have you more like Arkwright from open all hours flogging marigolds, domestos and dish cloths.
 
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Neil McRae

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do agree with Wayne on starting lockdown sooner and having more policing of it would have made a massive difference but its always easy in hindsight.

looking at the numbers agree with the above. the finances of this wouldn't work so pulling the plug, sadly, is probably the right thing to do, if nothing else to save glass :D
 

Martywolfman

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If you don't change the gloves after every single instance of you touching something they are absolutely of zero use. You also need to know how to put them on and take them off maintain sterility - having seen the way the vast majority of people are wearing face masks/coverings, I don't hold out much hope in that being the case.
Indeed. I go through 30-40 gloves a day (I deliver healthcare equipment to homes, care homes and hospitals) They are disposed of before touching anything else after leaving whichever property I visit, being removed properly so I don't ever actually touch the outside of them with my fingers. Then my hands are santised (properly - it's not just a matter of rubbing your palms together) before touching anything else.

I can't help but chuckle when I see peopledrive into tescos wearing them, get out of their car, do their shopping, pack their bags, get back into the car and drive off, while still wearing them (not that i've watched one indiviidual do all those things of course, but judgeing by seeing what some people do, this appears to be the case. THis of course acheives absolutely nothing in preventing the spread.

One person I saw beggared belief, evencompared to my low expectations. They were wearing a mask and gloves. THey needed to cough, so pulled the mask off, coughed into their gloved hands, put the mask back on, then merrily carried on shopping.