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The OFFICIAL LICENSED 'moans about pricing' thread

We have to wait for code 1.0 and let these pins mature
Look at bond its transformed from its original release
I still take code all day over gimmicks as they wear fast
Pinball taking a new direction now as in more immersion and storytelling
I agree they are stripped out (stern)been the obvious ones
GZ was fleshed out day one mainly from covid having more time to polish it from what I
Have gathered
just,wondering if we all sit on no nib where will this market go and will prices
Eventually even out as less pins mean more demand
I bet there's not too many jaws and bond come up 2nd hand people are sitting tight now
Prem are even more of a risk for nib buyers
Just my penny worth
 
The problem is really well built and designed pins from the 90s are very much still in circulation, some are in fantastic condition and can command NIB or nearly new values. Even WH2O can be 4-5k and you can't buy any decent sub 2k

Sought after games like Tron, TWD and LOTR from the '10s can have 5-6k plus values.

So if my '23 STh which cost a total of 8.5k with the UV kit would lose me 2k if I sold it - I just wouldn't sell it.

Well, maybe in 20 years - in which case I probably wouldn't lose anything on it.
 
To be fair it's only really a problem for Stern. I'm certainly not refusing to buy NIB . . . . market forces just dictate that I will be more cautious and I have more choice.

A Stern pro is actually excellent value in the US. However, the LE's look a bit poorly made compared to a Lebowski, Elton, Labyrinth and other stuff.

If I'm lucky I'll get one NIB every 18 months, the next one is Pulp and then I might save myself for BTTF.

I'm not against buying Stern at all, but they'd have to produce something better than the competition to get my money.
 
Gonzo said:
To be fair it's only really a problem for Stern. I'm certainly not refusing to buy NIB . . . . market forces just dictate that I will be more cautious and I have more choice.

A Stern pro is actually excellent value in the US. However, the LE's look a bit poorly made compared to a Lebowski, Elton, Labyrinth and other stuff.

If I'm lucky I'll get one NIB every 18 months, the next one is Pulp and then I might save myself for BTTF.

I'm not against buying Stern at all, but they'd have to produce something better than the competition to get my money.
Click to expand...

I'm actually pretty positive about the outcome, Monopolies are never good for the buyer and Stern had there own way for too long, being the default option for years.
Lacklustre releases, missing features and unfinished code are not good enough from a market leader, history is littered with dead companies who got lazy and thought they would be no1 forever, I really hope this competition leads to better games from everyone.

Trying to rank current games....

Top game (ignoring cost): Elton has to be in with a shout
Best value: probably Scooby
Best theme: gotta be PF
Best looking: Labyrinth looks great IMO
Humour/fun: GTF nails 90s light hearted pinball

Only place I think Jaws might edge the others is shots, but its hard to see it being better than Godzilla no matter what they do with it. In some ways Sterns biggest problem are the previous Elwin games that are readily available on the 2nd hand market.
 
Chaggers said:
We have to wait for code 1.0 and let these pins mature
Look at bond its transformed from its original release
I still take code all day over gimmicks as they wear fast
Click to expand...
The problem is first impressions are REALLY important. I played a bunch of Bond in Funland when it first came out and was unimpressed, to say the least.

Then, a couple of months ago, @MadMonzer had a go at Bond for the first time, and really enjoyed it because - of course - the code had matured by then. The problem is that, superficially, it looks like the exactly same pin as the mediocre one I first played, and it’s very hard to change your mind and revisit a pin based on a negative first impression.

After all, none is going to walk into a barcade and think “Hmm, maybe I’ll just play that mediocre game again to see if it’s gotten better in the last three months.”

The solution, of course, is for Stern to release pins with finished (or near-finished) code…

And, if they don’t do that, I do think Godzilla might be a high watermark for them.

Chaggers said:
just,wondering if we all sit on no nib where will this market go and will prices
Eventually even out as less pins mean more demand
I bet there's not too many jaws and bond come up 2nd hand people are sitting tight now
Prem are even more of a risk for nib buyers
Just my penny worth
Click to expand...
I’m with @Gonzo here. I’m not sitting on no NIB. I’m genuinely considering whether to fork out megabucks for an Elton John right now because we’re really enjoying the one we have here (the same prototype @Gonzo had, I think) and will miss it a lot when it leaves. Being totally honest, the only barrier to us buying one will be price - we have stuff to do on the house as well.

Thing is, I don’t need to look at Jaws. I have much better other options than “buy a Jaws and wait for seven months to see if it gets good”. Because I don’t have tonnes of space, it might not, and I have two other Elwins that are a just lot better right now. There aren’t that many people who have the space for every Elwin anyhow, or who change Spike 2 pin every year, so - to be honest - if I wanted another Elwin, I’d look at IMDN before Jaws.
 
I think one of the biggest issues is how much Stern's margins on the LE have increased.


Metallica Pro at $5000 vs $7500 for the LE in 2013.

Fast forward to Jaws.


Jaws Pro at $7000 vs $13500 for LE.

Margin on LE gone from a 50% increase on pro to 92%.

And really, other than the new LCD screen, not a lot of difference in a 2013 pin vs 2024 pin.
 
Replay said:
I think one of the biggest issues is how much Stern's margins on the LE have increased.


Metallica Pro at $5000 vs $7500 for the LE in 2013.

Fast forward to Jaws.


Jaws Pro at $7000 vs $13500 for LE.

Margin on LE gone from a 50% increase on pro to 92%.

And really, other than the new LCD screen, not a lot of difference in a 2013 pin vs 2024 pin.
Click to expand...
lcd screen is probably cheaper than a dmd display
 
Happypin said:
Well said @Chris P
I will certainly miss this game when goes on Wednesday but most of all, having people over and enjoying P.F. meeting new people on here has been just fantastic, just what the doctor ordered.

Once again big thanks to Neil and Phil for making this happen, Gonzo for the delivery.

It’s been great.
Alan
Click to expand...

We can moan or just discuss pricing all we want but things like this or moments with friends, family or just by yourself fully immersing yourself into a game and forgetting whatever real crap you have going on is why pinball is great.

Reading this and just playing some games on foo and DP myself, which made me smile at some stupid call-outs and crazy ball paths. Hoping I can continue to enjoy the hobby for a long time whatever happens to prices.
 
David_Vi said:
The animations on DMDs were special and must have been time consuming. I miss them.
Click to expand...

I’m 100% with you on this one. DMDs with original animations have a charm that LCD displays will never match. I miss them too.

I hope that in the future we see retro pins along the lines of TNA and PF, but emulating the look and feel of 90s DMD machines.
 
JustLikeMe said:
I’m 100% with you on this one. DMDs with original animations have a charm that LCD displays will never match. I miss them too.

I hope that in the future we see retro pins along the lines of TNA and PF, but emulating the look and feel of 90s DMD machines.
Click to expand...
I was just thinking recently with the success of Pulp Fiction, will other companies try releasing a 'retro' Pinball machine? I know Stern did Bond 60th but the pricing on that was ridiculous. *Forgot about Beatles too, again ridiculously priced.

Spooky did TNA, and demand for Haggis' Pins seems to be there, albeit remakes, if only they could actually manufacture them.
 
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Jib said:
We can moan or just discuss pricing all we want but things like this or moments with friends, family or just by yourself fully immersing yourself into a game and forgetting whatever real crap you have going on is why pinball is great.

Reading this and just playing some games on foo and DP myself, which made me smile at some stupid call-outs and crazy ball paths. Hoping I can continue to enjoy the hobby for a long time whatever happens to prices.
Click to expand...
Exactly this, a few days back I played Pinball with a Pinball Pal. Playing with friends is where Pinball is at for me, though doesn't happen to often here tbh. Still I get to put the lights on and forget all the real crap going on and have a quick blast myself. Now is the best time to enjoy what we already have and try not get caught up in the hype of new releases (more so the sterns) and crazy pricing.
 
Marvello said:
I was just thinking recently with the success of Pulp Fiction, will other companies try releasing a 'retro' Pinball machine? I know Stern did Bond 60th but the pricing on that was ridiculous. *Forgot about Beatles too, again ridiculously priced.

Spooky did TNA, and demand for Haggis' Pins seems to be there, albeit remakes, if only they could actually manufacture them.
Click to expand...
Yeah - kinda agree with this in many respects.

Sadly they are too used to making big profits (Stern).

I would love to see how much more money say a GZ PRO costs to make compared to a TSPP. I wouldnt imagine there is a lot of difference. One has a lot more mechs, more electronics and more parts.

An old fashioned DMD is more money than a cheap laptop screen in 2024.

I still do not think anything beats the 1990-2000 era.
 
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