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Spider help please…

Andydn

Andydn

Site Supporter
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Messages
2,016
Location
Kent
I have an issue with a SpiderMan pin and really struggling to rectify it:

During a game, when the sandbank drops, it sometimes rises & lowers again (sometimes twice) before stopping in the correct position. Doc Oc & Sandman both sometimes do this too. Whenever this happens they always eventually stop in the expected position.
This NEVER happens at the end of a game when the three mechs mentioned rehome themselves. It NEVER happens in test mode either, only ever during a game.

All three of these mechs are on the same switch row. They have individual up/down switches, relays and motors.

All up & down limit switches & diodes have been tested and checked (one switch replaced). Opto board swapped (doc Oc Opto is on the same row). Power board in backbox swapped with my Metallica one. Ribbon cable for switch return swapped. Software reinstalled…., issue still remains!
Extensively activated switches in test mode and it never results in a whole row or column triggering.
Reseated connectors and used IDC tool to give relevant cables a little push.
Spent hours looking at switches, referencing the manual and it seems all wiring is correct and all diodes the right way round.
There are no cables limiting the movement of these mechs and nothing blocking their path top side either.

It can play perfectly for a few games and then it happens again. Unable to replicate it by vibration or banging the playfield.

It seems that it occasionally the up or down limit switch is being triggered but somehow ignored until the 2nd or 3rd pass?

Any ideas are more than welcome as I have run out!

Cheers
Andy
 
I know you’ve said you’ve already swapped the doc oc opto but it might be worth doing this again. When mine became flakey it threw up a range of problems including the doc not rehoming but only after the 2nd multi ball. End of game and start of game it would return to the same place.
 
Thanks John 👍, I did disconnected the doc Oc opto’s to rule them out & it still did it. Am I right in thinking that rules them out? If not I’ll change them.
 
I’m probably not the best person to answer that but if the opto was failing and giving an “off” reading then wouldn’t disconnecting it give the same reading?

Do you have one on another game you could swap in to check it.

I might be out of my depth as normal though.
 
Who knows 🤷🏼‍♂️, optos are a bit of a pain to get to. I’ll definitely give it a go though, I would have thought that maybe if a flakey opto was causing these issues having it isolated would eliminate the intermittent interruptions.
The Doc Oc opto is on the same row as the problematic mechs - but that said, I believe the issue could still be caused by a switch/opto elsewhere so I’ll try isolating the sandman opto first just in case it’s that.
 
….ALL Optos disconnected (by disconnecting the 2 Opto boards) - issue still remains 🤦🏼‍♂️🤬
 
Each mech disabled individually and in pairs, issue STILL remains (on mechs not disabled obviously) - not sure if this 100% confirms that they are none of the 3 mechs are causing the issue but I think it does 🤦🏼‍♂️🤬
 
Relays swapped round (swapped Sandman’s for the Sandbank as Sandman rarely plays up but Sandbank does the up/down dance frequently) Was hoping the issue would move but no change 🤷🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️
 
I can recreate the issue with glass off, game running, ball in hand & hit the three bank targets with my finger so it’s not being triggered by multiple balls in play or certain switches being hit at the same time.
Won’t happen for 10 games then will happen 4 times in a row.
Unplugging J6 causes the mechs to continually go up & down (J6 is the upper switch return), so I’ve done a continuity and resistance check throughout the underside of the playfield for all wires that use J6 - nothing untoward found 🤬🤬

Reminder if anyone’s reading this:
Sandbank (3 targets that drop below playfield) will quite often lower, raise then lower again instead of simply lowering.
Doc Oc also does this but not as often.
Sandman does this rarely.
 
Andy
you would think the amount of S.M in the country and made and sold world wide, someone else would of had this fault.
 
Happypin said:
Andy
you would think the amount of S.M in the country and made and sold world wide, someone else would of had this fault.
Click to expand...
Someone on pinside has, but 8 years ago 😂 they can’t remember how they fixed it!
 
mufcmufc said:
Broken (or more specifically breaking down) wire most likely culprit
Click to expand...
You’d think so but it seems no amount of playfield banging, wire wiggling, loom shaking, switch flicking or connector moving triggers the problem or causes a reaction in switch test.
Problem can be recreated by lightly tapping the 3 bank targets or popping a ball into Doc Oc scoop (so minimal movement & vibration occurring) making it very hard to trace. The fact it’s intermittent doesn’t help either. I’d say it occurs approx 10% of the time.
 
Thought I’d type ‘SpiderMan Pinball’ into YouTube - see if anyone else’s behaves like mine.
1st video, same issue within 3 minutes!
@ 2.42 - Sandman should simply rise, but he goes up, down then up again!

 
@mufcmufc is right about these optos, it can be the cables themselves. Bad solder joints as well. Whilst you have them apart it is easy enough to change the optos themselves.

Had this problem many times on service calls.
 
Pick Holder said:
@mufcmufc is right about these optos, it can be the cables themselves. Bad solder joints as well. Whilst you have them apart it is easy enough to change the optos themselves.

Had this problem many times on service calls.
Click to expand...
By completely disconnecting the 2 Opto boards, and still seeing the same issue, does that rule out the Optos or not as being the cause?
 
Andydn said:
By completely disconnecting the 2 Opto boards, and still seeing the same issue, does that rule out the Optos or not as being the cause?
Click to expand...

Did you disconnect the 3 target bank switches. If you think it isn;t wiring or optos then it's the diodes on these switches. You need to work through logically one by one. I have seen the issue before but no idea what the cause was or how I fixed it as it was years ago

It's almost certainly one of:

Wiring
Diodes
Optos

After ruling out the diodes on the target bank, I would plug in one motor at a time and test to see if it happens with that motor. It may seem random and illogical but it almost certainly wont be
 
I haven’t disconnected the 3 target bank switches as then the bank wouldn’t be triggered to lower in the first place and this seems to be when the problem starts - I could however disconnect them and see if Doc Oc still plays up so I will try this 👍
I’ve plugged in one motor at a time, also two out of the three at a time and with every combination the problem still occurs.
3 switches and diodes changed so far, the others all check out ok, the ones I changed I’m not sure actually needed changing.
Optos - these have had my least attention as I thought isolating them would prove they are not the cause but I’ve been advised that the software would need to see them present & working - new optos ordered, I’ll focus on these now and see where I get 👍
 
Check the opto connectors on the small under playfield opto boards, the plug pins crack / break and become intermittent. Pull each wire out and check them
 
BrianSoton said:
Check the opto connectors on the small under playfield opto boards, the plug pins crack / break and become intermittent. Pull each wire out and check them
Click to expand...
Cheers Brian, checked these closely - they look new! 😂. Optos arriving tomorrow, watch this space 🤞🏻
 
Well it’s not the Optos, changed these for new…. issue still there. Opto boards look fine but no spares to check with (swapping the 2 other didn’t make any difference).
Don’t want to go down this route but time to change diodes, 3 done already on the offending row so guess I’ll chip away at the others 🤦🏼‍♂️
 
Andydn said:
Well it’s not the Optos, changed these for new…. issue still there. Opto boards look fine but no spares to check with (swapping the 2 other didn’t make any difference).
Don’t want to go down this route but time to change diodes, 3 done already on the offending row so guess I’ll chip away at the others 🤦🏼‍♂️
Click to expand...
I’m sure Chris at the pinball office would let us test any boards in his SM.
might try going the end of next week to pay him a visit after I’ve recovered from chemo.
 
Played a different Spider-Man today, the 3 bank did the same as mine occasionally. Was watching the Papa tutorial on YouTube, the 3 bank AND Doc Oc on that did the same thing (only the once) - seems its maybe a common thing, some people might just not notice I guess.
 
Davey D said:
Mine does the same occasionally, but it's never caused an issue, so never bothered looking into it
Click to expand...
This explains why I’m struggling to resolve it, I’ve now had feedback from 5 SpiderMan pins so far - all of them have this intermittent ‘occurance’.
 
Andydn said:
This explains why I’m struggling to resolve it, I’ve now had feedback from 5 SpiderMan pins so far - all of them have this intermittent ‘occurance’.
Click to expand...
Omg Andy
this fault needs to be found for everyone it seems.
Surly stern must have a clue ?
 
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