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Pool Sharks and X Files

As someone who is very new to pinball playing, may I say that rule 1 does not help me or other potential pinballers because

1/ when I went to the surrey pinball league in July , I had no idea of the values of the different tables or how good they where etc.
I was just so pleased that Mat let me play such great pins as Metallica and mm etc, and I instantly thought I would like to own some. Then during The day I spoke to John and Paul from this site amongst others about pin prices and where to get them and study them.
That led me to looking at all the pin sites I could including ebay historical and after a while I was more confused than ever with prices for some pins varying by over £500 .

2/surely if you just let people like me get led to bad prices I am going to sell my pins for as close to the price I payed, and that will eventually only Mean that prices in general are increased.

3/ what is wrong with an agreed thread that has a list of top games and the prices next to them as a guide only so that people can use it if they wish as a rough reference
This could be thrashed out by long standing and big sellers to get it as accurate as possible, and maybe with a nice banding e.g.

Fish tales 700 - 1000 and then an explanation of what to look for in general I.e play field condition, fish topper etc.
This then would help the likes of me no end and if someone posts a higher price, because their pin is in immaculate condition and has a golden fish on top signed by the cast of Stingray, I could understand the extra price.

4/ I was very lucky I hope that I asked several members on here via pm's what they would think was a good price etc, but a system would be better for all

5/ sorry for the rambling answer but I do hope that people on here continue to guide noobs like me, and set the right example, and not a convenient rule 1 that does not help future pinballers.
 
I know this is a bit of a dream but if we value our community here and I think most of us do then hear me out and we could help each other and benefit.
Most of us agree ebay is a bad place to sell or buy a pin.
When a pin appears here for sale there are lots of posts saying something like if only I had the cash, or if it were a few months down the line etc.
Say those of us that wanted to (30 or more) each gave a trusted chair person £100 as a group float. 30 people =£3000, 40 =£4000 etc.
When someone needs to sell a machine or wants to for what ever reason, if no one on the group could afford it or wanted it at that time, a few trusted members (those in this would all trust each other right?) would value the machine, better still would be able to see it because between us we should all be near someone, offer a price and if the price was agreed the club float would buy that machine and it would be floating until such a time one of the members paid the money back into the float and then the machine would be his/hers.
It keeps machines in the community, no ebay/paypal fees, none of the nightmares that go with it, it gets someone quick cash to act on another deal as it often happens and it also give one of us time to save and get the pin that we could not afford at that moment in time and the price would not inflate down the line. Once the machine is in the float its price would remain at that price, once out of it that then has nothing to do with the venture and if it ever came in again it would be valued again.
Now I know there are lots of pitfalls and other legalities but given some thought it could work, I would not miss £100 too much and it is only like putting it in the bank.
Don't all shoot me down in flames, it is just an idea.
Cheers Adie
 
Adie, sounds good but would not be simpler doing non permanent swaps?
 
Swaps are fine and work well, you are proof of that, but some people need to raise cash for maybe a blown engine on their car or something so a swap would not be a solution for that.
Like I said there are lots of what ifs and buts; it was the way building societies started, this would be a pinball society!
Cheers Adie
 
Got myself into trouble at work a few months ago when I discovered the concept of "pony girls" was perceived as deviant and I was coming over as an expert on the subject:oops:. Went down about as well as my previous conversation on Furverts
 
Thread seems to have derailed a little now (and getting too sexy)
My fault, so apologies.
Return to the subject at hand :)
 
Wizcat said:
I think someone needs to write up an etiquette guide. Probably suitable for both this forum and the group.

Rule #1 - Don't publicly criticise the price that someone has listed something. It makes no sense. If it's too much, then it won't sell. Leave it to the seller to have some common sense and realise that if the item doesn't sell, they will have to reduce the price.
Click to expand...
I must admit to being the original poster about Wez's prices. I did not intend to accuse him of profiteering or being a bad person, I just felt that he had been mis-led as to the value of his games! If a newbie sees that Wez is a regular poster on the group and assumes that this is a fair price they would be in the position of having paid over the odds on their first machine and may not decide to stay in the hobby having got their fingers burnt! If i offered my Farfalla for sale at £1000 on the group and nobody pulled me up on it, how can we protect people from over-paying? I don't begrudge anyone selling a mchine for more than they paid, as long as they got the machine for a cheap price, rather than paying the going rate and asking for more!
 
But who sets the 'correct' value of games? In my eyes its the buyers, not the sellers. One example of Farfalla selling at £1000 would be an exception, but if dozens started selling for that price, then for whatever reason, that becomes the going rate. You can't say 'oh its not worth that', because clearly ... it is, for at least a dozen buyers.

I think we've all seen the price increases over the last few years, but it's not because of sellers overpricing their machines, its just down to supply and demand. The shows that make these machines popular to new audiences is increasing demand, and yet there are no more of these classic machines made.

Anyhow. All in my humble opinion of course. And yep Matt, I know you well enough to understand no harm was intended with your comments! :) I just think this is a debate thats long overdue, and recent events make it a relevant one.
 
Wizcat said:
But who sets the 'correct' value of games? In my eyes its the buyers, not the sellers. One example of Farfalla selling at £1000 would be an exception, but if dozens started selling for that price, then for whatever reason, that becomes the going rate. You can't say 'oh its not worth that', because clearly ... it is, for at least a dozen buyers.

I think we've all seen the price increases over the last few years, but it's not because of sellers overpricing their machines, its just down to supply and demand. The shows that make these machines popular to new audiences is increasing demand, and yet there are no more of these classic machines made.

Anyhow. All in my humble opinion of course. And yep Matt, I know you well enough to understand no harm was intended with your comments! :) I just think this is a debate thats long overdue, and recent events make it a relevant one.
Click to expand...
I base my 'Value' of a machine on experience and current market trends. The only thing i would disagree with you over is that i believe sellers asking for higher prices has pushed the perceived value of machines upwards.
Adrian Hufton said:
I know this is a bit of a dream but if we value our community here and I think most of us do then hear me out and we could help each other and benefit.
Most of us agree ebay is a bad place to sell or buy a pin.
When a pin appears here for sale there are lots of posts saying something like if only I had the cash, or if it were a few months down the line etc.
Say those of us that wanted to (30 or more) each gave a trusted chair person £100 as a group float. 30 people =£3000, 40 =£4000 etc.
When someone needs to sell a machine or wants to for what ever reason, if no one on the group could afford it or wanted it at that time, a few trusted members (those in this would all trust each other right?) would value the machine, better still would be able to see it because between us we should all be near someone, offer a price and if the price was agreed the club float would buy that machine and it would be floating until such a time one of the members paid the money back into the float and then the machine would be his/hers.
It keeps machines in the community, no ebay/paypal fees, none of the nightmares that go with it, it gets someone quick cash to act on another deal as it often happens and it also give one of us time to save and get the pin that we could not afford at that moment in time and the price would not inflate down the line. Once the machine is in the float its price would remain at that price, once out of it that then has nothing to do with the venture and if it ever came in again it would be valued again.
Now I know there are lots of pitfalls and other legalities but given some thought it could work, I would not miss £100 too much and it is only like putting it in the bank.
Don't all shoot me down in flames, it is just an idea.
Cheers Adie
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you Adrian! I have long wondered why we don't have a UK Pinball Association where members donate or contribute to the purchasing of machines to be used at charitable events and competitions. I believe a similar system is used in Holland where they also have a headquarters full of these games for the members to play or loan.
 
It has been discussed several times over the years. Closest it nearly came to happening was a couple years back when Will tried to get something along those lines running out of Ravs unit down here .....much talk and debate about how it would all work....before the true difiiculties of logistics dawned and it never really happened. Although tbh I think we spent longer arguing about what to call it and designing a cool logo :rolleyes:

I suppose nearest we ever had was Pins Anon HQ (rip) ........great setup of games belonging to various people, and the World Championship was staged there. Good times.
 
@Wizcat :

I agree totally, If an item isnt worth what someone is asking then it wont sell. If it sells then that person was willing to pay it and so would others. Getting burnt by over paying for a machine is down to the buyer not reading up on values or asking people on forums such as this one first and to be honest is just lazy in my mind.
I wouldn't part with 3k on a car without a little google work or looking at others to see if its value for money first.

We cant nanny buyers and we shouldn't comment on other peoples sales. Although I do appreciate in this instance Matt had great intentions at heart. With a rule set up this would no longer be an issue. A good sticky on this site for new members/guests about how to find sites with past sales values and what questions to ask a seller BEFORE buying and maybe a little on what to look out for would help much more and cause much less friction between valued members.
 
I'm blaming Grizz for all the overpriced Popeye's that have been springing up on ebay.

Part of teh problem I think is first time buyers generally don't really there is such a differential in value. If a TOm/TZ/SS etc is a 2k machine then Popeye doesn't sound that bad at £1300. That's some seriously burnt fingers.

I'd also imagine the majority of first time buyers aren't on the groups. Took me 2 years to stumble over the UK group
 
Expect more banter, leg pulling and similar remarks.... Wez will then keep it again, then sell/trade again a week later...... and repeat. :rofl:
 
oh dear indeed. i dunno if that's Wez - it's the right city - but if it is, 1700 is a bit of a stretch for NF. i think maybe he lost some moolah on that XFiles (pile of crap) and is trying to get some of it back. JohnnyO, you coming along tomorrow night to the Pipeline?
 
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