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Pinflation! Does it apply to everything?

Horsey said:
I suppose the issue with that @Durzel is people either panic when they see a machine going up in price and jump on one. Or when they see one cheaper than a few and think it's cheap.
Definitely think it will be a long game for bargains to come back around.
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Regardless of going rates, bargains are always around. They always have been, always will be. You just don't hear about most of them on public forums [emoji3]



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I can't see prices trending downwards at all. The only pressure I think there is is from remakes, otherwise - ultimately - a pinball machine is a physical asset of which there are only a finite number in existence. The price of tech has risen consistently in recent years. People moaned about the "£1000 iPhone", now all the top end phones are around or above that number.

I also think that NIB prices will have an effect on used as well. If NIB pins are selling for £7k a pop, then why shouldn't a "classic" B/W pin that is not dramatically different in practical terms (ok the new pins have big LCDs) have a value comparitively relative to that?
 
The more people who say they can't see pin prices trending downwards, makes me think we are pretty close to the top of the market.

Remember Bitcoin thread?!

There are just so many new games coming out and Deeproot haven't yet released however many they are going to release.

Unless a ton of new buyers enter the market, prices will go down.

Would be great if the hobby keeps expanding for a few more years though :D

I am now only buying games I don't mind keeping longer term now.
 
I think you just have to look at Munsters. Despite what you might think about the game. I feel like it was only last month I was excited to see it being revealed and waiting on people streaming it. Now it is forgotten about with Black Knight. And that has been cast aside for Wonka.
If Deeproot get going and Stern continues at this rate, then games will be old news before they come out. They will have to do something.
 
Regarding investments, instead of pinball machines for yourselves, I'd like to take this opportunity to start my Ponzi scheme. Pinzi!

Send donations upwards of a Stern Premium to my PayPal account and you may get something in return.... my team of expert operatives are waiting for your monies!!
83595
 
Durzel said:
I can't see prices trending downwards at all. The only pressure I think there is is from remakes, otherwise - ultimately - a pinball machine is a physical asset of which there are only a finite number in existence. The price of tech has risen consistently in recent years. People moaned about the "£1000 iPhone", now all the top end phones are around or above that number.

I also think that NIB prices will have an effect on used as well. If NIB pins are selling for £7k a pop, then why shouldn't a "classic" B/W pin that is not dramatically different in practical terms (ok the new pins have big LCDs) have a value comparitively relative to that?
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The Iphone is a great example. The last generation Iphone still holds it price but go back two or three and they are paper weights. With more and more new pins coming out, I guess the question should be, would anyone want a System 11 game in 10 years time?
 
Dex-Jay said:
Maybe but probably for nostalgia reasons the same way we look at EM's now. Look lovely but you won't spend hours playing it.
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Maybe.... But by that logic the solid state games of the late 70s/early 80s should now be going for a song.

I'll take any old Centaurs and Fathoms people want shot of [emoji16]

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Durzel said:
I can't see prices trending downwards at all.
....
If NIB pins are selling for £7k a pop, then why shouldn't a "classic" B/W pin that is not dramatically different in practical terms (ok the new pins have big LCDs) have a value comparitively relative to that?
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Really?

Even if we agree about gameplay, features etc (and theres a pretty big debate to be had there!) and ignore the LCD screens, those games are around 25 years old, with 25 year old electronics and 25 years of dings, even if only minor.

A 25 year old Merc (or a 15 year old, or 10) is still a lovely car but is worth a lot less than it’s equivalent NIB model!

And there’s plenty of us on here who are mad keen on pinball, with the space and / or money (or just the wish....) to buy expensive games and keep large collections, but if pinball goes out of fashion with normal punters and demand drops, then prices will drop along with it.

That may or may not happen in the short term but eventually I’d say it’s pretty much certain as everything is cyclical.

In 1978 if you’d said that by 1983 you’d be struggling to give pinballs away (relatively, anyway) you’d have been thought mad, the same if you switched the dates to 1992 and 2008.
 
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Cars are not a good analogy in my opinion. Classics aside the technology in cars has moved on considerably between that 25 year old Merc and a new car. The new car is probably much faster, much more efficient, has loads of modern tech and infotainment stuff. There is therefore many, many reasons to buy a new Merc over a 25 year old one (where that old car is just a regular model, not a classic).

iPhones aren't strictly a good example either.. the newer ones get faster, are capable of storing more, have funky features that no one actually needs, etc. That doesn't mean to say that I think they should cost £999+, but that's the price of entry at that end of the market and it seems people are willing to spend it.

What is the practical difference between most NIB pins and a B/W besides the LCD? A fully restored mint B/W pin may as well be new if practically everything has been replaced. Granted an actual 25 year old pin with 25 year old mechs, coils and wiring should be priced appropriately, but a fully restored one is essentially new to my mind.

My wider point, I think, is that in the grand scheme of things a pinball machine is a pinball machine. There has been very little innovation in them over the years ("if it ain't broke" ?), even the cabinets have stayed to all intents and purposes the same (bar widebody). Some pins have some extra toys, but older ones do too. The only standout improvement has been in big LCDs, and better sound. So in that respect, if a NIB Stern is selling for £7k, why should a B/W that offers the same intrinsic experience of pinball be worth just £hundreds? Or any pin for that matter.
 
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Like has been said before, you will be lucky if some of those new machines will be around more than 10 years and I bet they haven’t been hammered in arcades!
Classics are classics fast or slow, high tech or not. If they are desireable and people want them they have to pay or don’t have one.
If you have mint classic who will be letting them go cheap?
How long will the latest Range Rover be about, big money to sort problems out.
 
Well that's the other danger too.. and it was touched on with the Munsters comment. If Stern's model becomes cranking several different ones out each year, as it seems to be going that way, then it may well be the case that they end up being engineered with a finite lifespan, or at least specced accordingly.

Gone are the days I think where these things were built to keep on trucking in arcades (because they needed to in order to make operators money), now its home users who are the focus and its a boutique market. Stern don't seem to have any shortage of people hyping every new pin they announce and buying them sight unseen, so it's working for them. I fully expect - although I am naturally cynical - for them to continue to shave the BOM costs to increase profit margins until they start to get real blowback - i.e. people actually stop buying their stuff rather than just threatening that they will.

Are node boards going to be here in 20 odd years time, still running? Still supported?
 
A.Pearson said:
It goes in circles. Someone puts a high price up, someone pays that, then it sets a mark for pricing.
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Yup, but it started with someone who was willing to pay... then it’s the next guy... and so on.


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If NIB prices continue on the trajectory they have been I think it might be major trouble for the hobby long term. With second hand stuff, the **** will almost certainly fall out of the market at some point, it might be a good few years but pinheads are not generally the youngest people and only the hardcore will stick with it imo.
 
Why would modern pins not be around in 10 years ?
LOTR 16 years old now and still going strong has anyone ever scraped one I doubt it
Spiderman now 12 years old still an awesome game
Life expectancy of a Williams boards was 10 years and look at how well they have stood up
 
CHRIS B PINBALLS said:
Why would modern pins not be around in 10 years ?
LOTR 16 years old now and still going strong has anyone ever scraped one I doubt it
Spiderman now 12 years old still an awesome game
Life expectancy of a Williams boards was 10 years and look at how well they have stood up
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Wonder whether we'll be saying the same in 10 years with Spike games....
 
Less about the boards although I’m not sure about that. Look at a busy location site stern Chris - I saw a Deadpool and it was in aright state - game can’t even be a year old. Playfield you could barely make out any of it, lights not working right...


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Neil McRae said:
Less about the boards although I’m not sure about that. Look at a busy location site stern Chris - I saw a Deadpool and it was in aright state - game can’t even be a year old. Playfield you could barely make out any of it, lights not working right...


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All depends on what it’s taken I suppose I think the tilt gb has taken over 10k and still going strong and still in the top 3 earners one node board in all the time it’s been in there still got to be worth 5k but even if you scraped it your still quids in
 
Let’s face it, they don’t make them like they used to. Try repairing those new boards.
 
CHRIS B PINBALLS said:
All depends on what it’s taken I suppose I think the tilt gb has taken over 10k and still going strong and still in the top 3 earners one node board in all the time it’s been in there still got to be worth 5k but even if you scraped it your still quids in
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Yeah - I was thinking that a lot of the williams games we have today where once on site and look a lot better than any hard played sterns. ESP from spike era.


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A.Pearson said:
I was into old cars for years and people are getting greedier and greedier for any old rotten car, takes all the fun out of owning one and it stops being a hobby and turns into a big gamble. I just resent old cars now and it's spoiled it all for me.
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A real shame, but I can understand the feeling. Maybe there's a risk of that happening in pinball, but the solid community around it would have to evaporate totally first, for me at least.
 
Deep question here. Apologies.

But is the reality that with AI and the rapid industrialisation of vast populations in countries like India and China that UK humans are just losing their relative value ?
 
DRD said:
Deep question here. Apologies.

But is the reality that with AI and the rapid industrialisation of vast populations in countries like India and China that UK humans are just losing their relative value ?
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Until that reality hits the upper-classes equally as hard - which will be the case when the concept of work itself is outdated by means of the realisation of self-perpetuating AI workforce, leaving the only things for humans to have to do to be recreational pursuit - then all that it is actually happening is that globalised capitalism sharply increases the potential for class inequality.
 
or the human race may find something new to work on, as has happened since we started walking this beautiful planet
 
Does that mean Pinbot and T2 pins will be the most valuable or will the robots look towards these as their children and owning one may be considered a way of trafficking and comes with a life sentence of hard labour?
I watched this documentary once called the Matrix. It didn't end so well for us.
 
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