Pinflation! Does it apply to everything?

Horsey

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Apr 26, 2018
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Having seen a few ridiculous prices for pins lately (not from bonkerz Baz) it got me thinking. Do people generally believe that Pinflation applies to everything?
I'm a fan of system 3 games but a few years ago you couldn't give them away and now people want strong money.
It isn't that they are now sought after, so do you think it is just because other games have increased that buyers think you will settle for them?
Surely desirable titles are going up due to demand. Not just because there's a magical tax being applied to every game.

Games like Ghostbusters and Wrestle mania aren't being priced the same as good games of the same time.
So I don't see why, just because you have owned a particular pin for a few years, it is suddenly worth much more when it wasn't that desirable in the first place?
 

mark adams

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seems to be what goes around comes around almost, There will be some that never get 'pinflated' Zaccaria i'm looking at you... Williams games of the DMD era seem to hold their value, now the earlier models are catching up.
What we need is for Williams to start making pinball games again, remaking some of their most famous models would turn the market on its head.
Imagine a brand new Twilight Zone...
 
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Wayne J

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The way I see it the biggest contributor to Pinflation is - inflation itself. Everything is more expensive than it was 10 or 20 years ago - that's just the way it is.

Add in to that that people who are relatively new to the hobby are seeing people saying that they made such an such a profit on a machine they had, and they want the same. What doesn't help is if they overpaid for the machine in the first place, they're not prepared to accept a loss so insist on such a high price (factoring in all of the mods and LEDs they've added) - due to the fact that more and more people are coming into the hobby - and want the latest games, it's increasing demand and supply just can't keep up - hence prices will rise - basic economics.

I've made a profit on a few machines, and lost on a few as well, mainly down to pure luck and timing - that's just the way it is. I buy machines because I want to play and own them, and pay a price I'm comfortable with. I don't factor in a resale value at the end of it.
 

Andy Hancock

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When I sat outside a restaurant on holiday 5 years ago (where I’d just found a pinball and really enjoyed playing it) wondering ‘is it feasible to own one of those things?’

....I never dreamed that I could do so and it not cost me money that alone make money on them . So I don’t mind losing a few bob to enjoy this great hobby

Mind you I never imagined I’d have 9 of them by now either!!!
 

M4carp

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Jan 12, 2019
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Not just pinballs, look at classic cars. I could have bought a Sierra RS500 for under £20k 15 years ago.
Then look at early Escorts and Cortina’s, eye watering prices.
 
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Replay

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When I really started looking a NIB prices back in 2009 ish they seemed expensive.

Fast forward to 2019.

NIB Pro is up 67% over 10 years. ( Double the rate of inflation ).

NIB LE 100%. ( Triple the rate of inflation ).

According to Bank of England if in line with inflation a NIB Pro would now be £5270 and an LE would be £6550.

So pin prices are way ahead of 'normal' inflation.

And I wish my wages had had the same rise as pinflation :D


Fantastic hobby but prices have risen in a way that buying pinballs is like an expensive game of pass the parcel ;):D
 
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Neil McRae

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seems to be what goes around comes around almost, There will be some that never get 'pinflated' Zaccaria i'm looking at you... Williams games of the DMD era seem to hold their value, now the earlier models are catching up.
What we need is for Williams to start making pinball games again, remaking some of their most famous models would turn the market on its head.
Imagine a brand new Twilight Zone...
I know that CGC have that game on their list as one of the most demanded games to be remade (more so than Addams)


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Neil McRae

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To answer the OP question - it’s a supply and demand issue - DMD era games prices are up for the good games and they are rare to come in the market so folks start looking at the next set of games that are good - so they might buy at Taxi or a Flash Gordon over a cheap pants DMD like Popeye.

Cheers,
Neil.


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Sam C

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Games have gone up certainly but as others have said gone up more than based on the rate of inflation. When I first got into the hobby my grail machine was a T2 and I gawked at the idea of paying more than £1200 for one (which I did when I found one) but now It's a 2k+ machine for a nice one.

There are still deals to be had if you look in the right places, this forum as a prime example.

Mods etc play a big factor in hiking up prices, someone spends £150 on a good LED kit they want to recover the money when they sell instead of thinking of that as an upgrade they enjoyed and expect the buyer to eat that cost as well.

More people in the hobby, more demand for games. Lots of games you just don't see for sale anymore because people have purchased them for their collection and the only way they'll get released back into the wild is when that person dies - less rotation of machines etc. Could spend hours agonising over the multiple reasons to pinflation but it's happening.
 
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Neil McRae

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A new Twilight Zone
*prepares kidney for sale*
Not saying they will remake it but it’s one that’s high on the demand list - no doubt folks will post a load of yakyak about licensing but that’s just part of a transaction and easily solvable. It would be epic to see it with the large DMD CGC use.


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DRD

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Low interest rates are the most important factor here. As a punter with savings, you got around 6 per cent interest 10 years ago. Savings rates of 4 to 8 per cent or so were the norm through the 80s, 90s and 00s. Obviously with short term spikes from time to time.

Right now you basically get zero on your savings. Imagine you are retired and have 30k of pinball machines. Why sell them when the interest you would get might be £300 a year before tax ! You might call that the annual interest cost of your collection.

If that figure were more like £2,000 annual interest, that makes holding your pinball collection far less attractive. You might choose to flog 'em, bank the cash and spend the interest on dinner once a week instead. Or flog 'em and max out a Sky/ BT/ Netflix package.

So with such meagre interest rates folk are more likely to stick their cash in places other than the banks. House prices up. Classic car prices up. Premium watches up ........
 

A.Pearson

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Mar 17, 2019
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Greed.......That's all a lot of it is. I was into old cars for years and people are getting greedier and greedier for any old rotten car, takes all the fun out of owning one and it stops being a hobby and turns into a big gamble. I just resent old cars now and it's spoiled it all for me.
Same seems to apply to pinball, one guy does over another guy for an inflated price and then suddenly that's the supposed 'i know what its worth' going rate for said machine and it spirals from there.
Rant over anyways, be kind and fair and it keeps things fun for years to come!
 
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Horsey

Horsey

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Not just pinballs, look at classic cars. I could have bought a Sierra RS500 for under £20k 15 years ago.
Then look at early Escorts and Cortina’s, eye watering prices.
Classic cars have got ridiculous but its mostly the desirable cars that have shot up.
People aren't paying as silly money for Skodas and ladas from the 80's just because they are from that time.
So I can't see why people would do the same for pins.

I remember selling a mk2 Escorts for 500 quid 12 years ago. The same car, never finished, was sold for 10k a few months ago
 

BigIan

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Classic cars have got ridiculous but its mostly the desirable cars that have shot up.
People aren't paying as silly money for Skodas and ladas from the 80's just because they are from that time.
So I can't see why people would do the same for pins.

I remember selling a mk2 Escorts for 500 quid 12 years ago. The same car, never finished, was sold for 10k a few months ago
Most people wouldnt class a skoda or Lada as a 'classic car' though, escorts etc yes
 
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Horsey

Horsey

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Most people wouldnt class a skoda or Lada as a 'classic car' though, escorts etc yes
That's my point. Most people wouldn't class some of the pins as classic or desirable. But I have seen adverts clearly saying, "with pinflation this is worth this now". Just because Fish tales has doubled in price, doesn't mean Hurricane has. It was a crap game at 600 quid and still a crap game at 1600quid. Just baffles me.


I think in general there will be a shift though. More people are overlooking dmd games and jumping straight to newer Sterns. Understandable. I would rather have a walking dead or Acdc for the same price as a Fishtales or Adams.
These same people won't even consider a Alpha numeric, despite most of these being better than dmd games.
I can see people holding onto games for longer now.
 

Vimtoman

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I dont think remakes make a particular pin cheaper but more expensive.
Maybe the remake and new pinball scene prices is whats bumping prices up.
 

Neil McRae

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Greed is good!!!

It’s not about greed it’s about what someone else is willing to pay.

People buying mk1 or 2 but actually any sort of ford for tens of thousands of pounds is all you need to know about how mad the world is.



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Neil McRae

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I dont think remakes make a particular pin cheaper but more expensive.
Maybe the remake and new pinball scene prices is whats bumping prices up.
I don’t think that is true. The remakes have definitely affected prices and inflation around those machines.


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A.Pearson

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Greed is good!!!

It’s not about greed it’s about what someone else is willing to pay.

People buying mk1 or 2 but actually any sort of ford for tens of thousands of pounds is all you need to know about how mad the world is.



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I dont think greed is good, these things are supposed to be a hobby, something you can enjoy without the need to remortgage or sell organs for. Then people take the p with ramping prices up, and although only a fool would pay them, it spoils it for the majority.
Vws were my thing and it's all gone to crap now.
 
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Dex-Jay

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The first machine I ever owned, won actually was a Sega Outrun back in 1988. That I sold after about a year for £1,500. With that money I bought a '62 VW Split Screen Camper for a whopping £350. The years went on the Outrun prices fell off and only now are they back up to £1,000 ish mark.

Now the Camper? In the same condition is worth £5+. Now that I do wish I'd kept. The Ford Capri's, Anglia's, Mk1 Escorts (one a Mexico) that I owned after 2000? I bought those at the right time, made nothing on them and while true they've tripled in price nothing like the Split Screen Camper.

Regarding pins I buy none of them with a mid to sell them on. If it costs me a little extra to secure what should be cheaper title, like I had to with my EATPM due to lack of them available then you've got to do it. You'd think that there would be enough TAF 's to go around with prices being lower than they are though. Surely only "so many" people want one?
 

Neil McRae

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People aren’t taking the p, people are selling them for what people are willing to pay...


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johnwhitfield

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Prices are eye watering now. Dropping 5-6 grand on a toy is not to be considered lightly.

It has a knock on effect and makes 3k games look good value.

I have no idea how many people are buying games at 9k plus but I know I’m out way before that price point.

There does appear to be a lack of interest in the newer games when people trying to sell them on. I’d like a dialled in but wouldn’t go above 5k for one. Can’t imagine anyone being willing to take that size of hit on one.

Give it 20 years and the younger generation won’t give a stuff about pins and the bottom will drop out of the market
 

A.Pearson

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I guess with this being a small ish community there's two types of sellers. The guys in it just for the hobby, and the guys on the make.
I've watched the vw scene grow and turn into 90 percent of people out to sling junk for sky high prices, so I'm out of it pretty much now.
I'd hate this to go the same way as I loved restoring my first machine, but if it's unaffordable then it'll go the distance and I'll move on to something else to pass the time.
 

Kenny Taylor

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Inflation and manufacturing costs have impacted prices. Look at JJP Wonka it's a std body and priced more than they were selling a wide body for. I can only guess the next wide body will be even more expensive. Stern prices continually rise. Cost of replacement parts/upgrades/colour DMD's etc are up. I can only see prices for decent machines heading in one direction.

Guess you can say it's the same with cars. The only problem is the vast majority of UK salaries haven't followed inflation..
 
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Durzel

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The market sets the price. If stuff sells then that's the new baseline. So long as people actually do carry on spending the sort of money demanded nowadays for NIB Sterns and JJPs then that's what it is going to carry on being.

People complain about the cost of pins (and everything else) rising but then buy them anyway. Stern et al are not going to lower prices when faced with those market conditions, if anything it will embolden them to try and increase their profit margins further still.

I tend to think very simplistically that if something is the right price it will sell, if it's not - it won't. Case in point that TAFG on eBay that has been up for 20 odd years bouncing up and down in price, and still not sold.
 
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Horsey

Horsey

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I suppose the issue with that @Durzel is people either panic when they see a machine going up in price and jump on one. Or when they see one cheaper than a few and think it's cheap.
Definitely think it will be a long game for bargains to come back around.