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Pinball sale dishonesty or laziness?

JMP

JMP

Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 12, 2011
Messages
3,472
Location
Lancashire
Warning, *rant* ahead....

A few on here described my ToM purchase as 'Theatre of Tragic' well they either tempted fate or couldn't have been more right. Third machine in a row bought remotely (ToM at a premium price) after seeing pics, described as 'nice' or similar words but fail to mention a multitude of errors, hidden filth, parts that aren't working and/or bodged jobs. These are experienced pin owners too who should know better !

Has the pinball world really turned into a money making hobby and not giving a f*ck about shafting the next one in line?

Last time I buy a machine without looking at it personally. :mad: and yes, I'm in a bad mood.
 
Yeah, I'm considering it. ToM seller known to a couple of people on the pin forums. Waiting for a 'possible' response today, although unlikely as initial reaction has been tough sh*t basically as...., apparently, I had the option to go down and look at it. Yeah, Brighton is just round the corner from Preston... :(
 
There is a fine line between someone missing to mention something and hiding it, these machines have had a long and sometimes brutal life. One person opinion of "nice" may differ from another's so there will always be a little bit of risk when buying unseen. However, there are things seller a should have spotted and mentioned if they have play the game and been into Pins for a while.

I have heard of a few disappointing situations recently and I support the name and shame statement.
 
Yeah, totally get the variance between a 'nice' description.

I struck a good email conversation on this one, got hi -res pics etc. but obvious things were still not mentioned and a multitude of faults found on arrival after reported as fully working. Transit can cause a few things but to mention a few; wires unsoldered, cracked/broken ramp patched over with metal and earthing strip being severed in several places doesn't happen by themselves whilst transported in a van.

It could just be laziness or incompetence in being able to identify and highlight things? But again, if mentioning lots of things, even if minor can make a machine sound worse than it is, so being economical with the truth means everything when you want maximum cash.
 
I bought a Taxi in January (pinball machine, not a car!!!). It came about as the seller was selling a TMNT on eBay and I saw in the background of his pics a highspeed. I asked if he'd sell it which he said yes and was also selling a taxi which he was restoring, so I waited a couple of months for him to finish. Saw some pics and bought it. £900!!! Well over the odds but it had a new pinled display ramps and a replacement Marylin pf. When it arrived it was filthy, half the GI didn't work, flippers wouldn't even make the ramps the Gorbie ball gate didn't work, the bell still doesn't work, the cab is **** he resprayed the back box illiminous yellow. The list goes on.
There will always be people who say you deserve it for not going to collect in person. Maybe if I was paying 7k for a mm I might make the journey. But for me personally I do rely heavily on honesty from the seller. And in my case I really honestly do believe the seller thought this machine was mustard!!! We just have totally different ideas about what Is good!! He apologised but that was it.
I've got new cab decals and on the CPR pre order for a new pf, it will be nice one day but the worlds most expensive taxi!!

Live and learn hey!

I hope you get some resolve with your ToM mate.

Gaz
 
If you don't mind me asking how much did you pay for it ?
I always budget for at least £300 in parts on any pin I buy, even the 'nice one's'. more on games that always have damage to ramps, etc.
 
Thanks Gaz, I've picked up loads for this reason but was caught out on this one, not wanting another long journey.... Think mine may be the world's most expensive ToM too when I've finished :rolleyes:. A new ramp at £110 isn't a good start.

Decided now it's a strip down and full refurb job or going to annoy me too much. The mech's are filthy underneath and now noted a welded bodge job on one of the shooter/popper brackets. Most annoying is having to fit a new earthing strip throughout the machine. Never had to do that before. Got wiring connections with insulation tape, back box GI out, non-working/fault reported flippers, pop-bumper failure and noisy transformer (again) too. :mad:

bartron said:
If you don't mind me asking how much did you pay for it ?
I always budget for at least £300 in parts on any pin I buy, even the 'nice one's'. more on games that always have damage to ramps, etc.
Click to expand...

Wanted £2,750, paid £2,500. Think adding the £300 is a wise thing.
 
If the seller is not up for talking and coming to a mutual agreement then name and shame. That way it will maybe help to stop this happening to another buyer who may have the misfortune to deal with this seller.
 
Bummer. The problem is ,as you say, one persons idea of 'nice' can be wildly different from anothers. We have all come across and bought machines described as 'fully working' which seems to be based entirely on the fact that it lights up when the switch is thrown.

Seeing machines in the flesh is really the only guarantee unfortunately :( A few times I have bought unseen and had basket cases turn up so I feel yr pain - thankfully with low end games. Even worse when you have paid top dollar I imagine.
 
Well the machine has definately been operated on as the counter shows 2 million plays....! :(

Obviously had a new playfield at some time and with cabinet good, why it looked good on photos. I'm no professional, but not totally green either, but will post some of the sellers photos later to test you too. Taken in bright daylight and with flash on in true second-hand car salesman style.

I've just had a tech and experienced person look at the machine. Going to post the full list of faults/problems here as linking the thread to the seller for his perusal:

Earth braid severed in at least 8 places.
Backbox and cab earth braid not connected.
Batteries leaking acid.
Mains lead cut in four places and joined together with insulation tape and mis-matched wires.
Backbox GI not working, connectors burnt and wrong size.
Board pins re-soldered on where broken.
Rusted pinballs and static ball on playfield.
Part rusted wire ramps that are now more silver than gold (presume sanded), not easily seen on photos.
Trap door rusted that you can't easily see on photos.
Pop bumper not working.
Centre ramp broken and cracked at bottom, supplied with home made metal piece applied to side to cover (not easly seen on photos).
EOS switch missing completely from left flipper.
EOS switch on right flipper has wires missing/not soldered on (both flipper faults reported in test mode).
Left flipper mechanism damaged.
Magnetic flap on trunk mis-aligned and almost scraping the playfield.
Flasher caps broken.
Multiple bulbs out or very dirty under playfield.
All under playfield mechanical parts dirty.
Wiring bodge between CPU and driver board, soldered on so PCB's can't be removed individually.
Lower and upper backbox glass trims broken.
Two small holes in lockdown bar.
Dents in side rails.

All for £2,500, described as a 'nice' fully working Theatre of Magic, the best one he's ever had. o_O

Isn't pinball life wonderful sometimes....
 
i don't know why, but the thing that surprises me most about that list is that someone would sell a top end game (ie 2.5K) with rusty balls in it
 
Incredible isn't it and here are some of the photos:

tom13s.jpg
img18.imageshack.us_img18_5641_tom13s.jpg

img823.imageshack.us_img823_3161_tom8t.jpg

img109.imageshack.us_img109_3231_tom6n.jpg

img11.imageshack.us_img11_1133_tom3p.jpg
 
cooldan said:
i don't know why, but the thing that surprises me most about that list is that someone would sell a top end game (ie 2.5K) with rusty balls in it
Click to expand...

That was probably the most amazing thing that hit me too. I can't understand why the playfield hasn't been torn up.... Some things look so wildly different it's almost as if they have been swapped out prior to collection and delivery.
 
JMP said:
Well the machine has definately been operated on as the counter shows 2 million plays....! :(
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear your woes on this one John. The only good news I can offer is that the counter is almost certainly wrong. If you guesstimate an average game time of three mins, that would be 6 million mins or 11 YEARS of *continuous* play.

So yeah, counter probably carried over from a previous pin?
 
Hmmm right I see. It's wierd really, cab and playfield are very good, it's everything else that's sh*te. Like a museum piece and trashed machine 'fudged' together. The earth braid cuts all over are the most puzzling, why would anyone do that? All the frayed ends are there, just not joined up. :confused:
 
It seems perhaps it has been swapped about looks as though all the mint bits have been removed and a load of crappy bits put on,look out for loads of v nice Tom bits on the bay @ sky high prices!
 
Sorry to hear this dude, definitely need to name and shame on this one if you don't get anywhere :(
 
I always expect machines to turn up worse than described and it's a Brucie bonus if they don't, I try and factor this into how much I pay when buying blind (you have to, it’s just the way it is, basically it's a case of Dr Pepper, what's the worst that can happen), on the flipside if I am selling a machine which is pretty rough, (sold two rough machines in the last 6 months, the FH to Gaz and a JD to another group member I try and knock at least £50 off the agreed price which takes some of the sting out of the transaction just in case my interpretation of rough is rougher than theirs :D which is fair on low value machines), I sold a T2 dog about a year ago which the new owner thought was better than described, again it's down to what people expect, I am pretty fussy but I have experienced customers who are just plain anal or complain to the point where you think they are just trying to lever the price down after the transaction has completed by illustrating flaws that most would not even consider mentioning.....if in doubt just say it a rough dog ;)
 
Yes, expectations and descriptions will vary, can't help that and a few issues here and there aren't even worth mentioning when easily sorted.

I've always viewed and picked up before down as far as the M25 circle. This one was just too far too soon after other trips down South for work etc. But lesson learnt, always view no matter the distance...

To update, after linking to this thread and the threat of small claims court (that I was advised to look at), a £350 partial refund was offered and just sent through. Enough to buy the parts but all the work, I''ll just have to lump it. Would rather have sent the machine back for full refund but this wasn't even responded on. No surprise there.

Thanks all for the support. I'll be appearing in the tech help and advice section again soon. ;)
 
Hi there, glad you got a resolve and nothing was implied in my post with regards to your transaction, just the flipside I suppose which can be experienced when selling a machine which has not been viewed, I never view any of my machines before purchase as a rule and never will (hate long journeys in hire vans) so I just lower my expectations and 9 times out of 10 it works out OK or at worst can be resolved if it's way off course.
 
Judge Dreads said:
Hi there, glad you got a resolve and nothing was implied in my post with regards to your transaction, just the flipside I suppose which can be experienced when selling a machine which has not been viewed, I never view any of my machines before purchase as a rule and never will (hate long journeys in hire vans) so I just lower my expectations and 9 times out of 10 it works out OK or at worst can be resolved if it's way off course.
Click to expand...

Yeah, never took it wrong way. Despite cost of van and petrol, it's worth it on expensive machines after taking this risk and losing out. For info, the last two I looked at personally I turned down exactly for these reasons. Too rough, too much work. Should have known it comes in threes...
 
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