OT: Covid boosters

[JustLikeMe]

Ok, my final post in this thread because it's devolving into a conspiracy addled **** show.

If folk believe what the NHS tells them and are unwilling to do basic research and think for themselves, they are letting themselves down.

The NHS isn't telling people anything. The NHS is doing it's job of treating people. And none of us here are qualified to do 'basic research'. Anyone without a relevant background who thinks that they are qualified to do 'basic research' is letting themselves, and the rest of us, down.

These covid jabs are untested and been given emergency authorisation only in many countries. Normally vaccines undergo 5 yrs plus of testing. Critics are being silenced. The mainstream media all sings with one voice. Proper data is not being given to us. The absence of reasoned debate is astonishing on a topic that has dominated the globe for nearly 2 years.

Wrong.

Okay. Scientists have been working on mRNA vaccines for two decades now. The reason we didn’t previously have commercial mRNA vaccines (for COVID or anything else) was because there wasn’t any money in it. Put bluntly, pre-COVID, most dangerous infectious diseases were in poor countries and the money in the pharmaceutical industry was keeping 90-year-old Americans with full health insurance alive for an extra fortnight.

Once COVID started badly hitting the US and Europe, it was suddenly worth translating the extensive, multi-decade-long research programs into mRNA vaccines into a commercial product - because the US and Western Europe have money.

Hence, they are not *untested* vaccines. The underlying technology is extensively tested.

Correct.

'Basic research' is easily the most loaded phrase commonly stated nowadays.

Yes - 'basic research' tends to mean YouTube as opposed to the BMJ.

There should be daily debates on this with high calibre individuals so we hear both sides or the argument.

Problem is that the only high calibre individuals are all on one side of the argument.

A friend of mine who is a very centrist, completely middle of the road GP has been forced to see zero patients for three days to administer vaccines. I have no idea what her politics are or how she votes. She is not political but sent me a message yesterday explaining all this yesterday and finishing "I hate Boris"

Everyone in healthcare hates Boris. Vast majority hate the Tories.

Based on my own and my family' s experience of healthcare I would tend to agree with South African Drs over UK ones. SA has previously had very strict lockdowns, banned travel without written permits..... This time round it has done nothing

Once again, SA has vastly different demographics. If I was in SA I'd be listening to them too. But I'm not.

This. We'll be dealing with the disaster that was Brexit for decades now because a load of people thought they were well enough informed to understand geo political trading systems. Now suddenly everyone of them is also an expert on the human respiratory system and RNA vaccines

We need to get better at understanding some people have literally dedicated their life to understanding these things, and give them just a bit of trust to do the right thing.

Bolded for emphasis. A few days on Google and YouTube does not give you a degree.

It’s when they want 75 years to release the data on some of the vaccines that gets me thinking WTF?

This request for information was structured to get this response, so that this exact argument could be made. They requested over 329,000 pages of information, asking for around 80,000 pages per month, and the FDA doesn't have the manpower to process this quantity. Each page needs to be manually reviewed, PID has to be redacted, and methods covered by trade secrets have to be redacted, the latter of which can involve legal input. They can produce 500 per month, which is standard and consistent with historical rates of data release, hence the timeframe. This request was made purely to get the expected answer which is now being used to further the anti-vax agenda.

No-one wants a lockdown, but some people noisily refuse to take the measures required to prevent a lockdown so we all end up with a lockdown.

This.

I just can’t see their predictions on hospitalisations and deaths coming true.

Let’s reconvene in a weeks time. see what has really happened.

Exactly. We have to wait and see. This could be a minor speedbump, it could be a disaster, or - most likely - it will end up between those two extremes. As we don't know yet, precautionary measures are sensible and valid. I'm still hoping it's much closer to the former than the latter.

Would there be an open discussion on whether the risk was a real one, and good preparation helped reduce the severity of it? Would the success of said prep, justify the aggressive and emotive way that compliance was pushed by several groups including the government?

Or would it be viewed as evidence that the threat wasn't real, and there was nothing but evil in the response to the risk?

Can people see how I have little faith that the former interpretation would be given any time in some people's minds at all, and the discussion would immediately - and intractably - be along the lines of the latter?

Sadly, very much the latter. Just look at this thread to see why.

I watch Laura Dodsworth almost daily as she is always on the TV/Media and pretty much everything she says makes sense. Most people just don't want to believe it. We are living in the Matrix where some of us have woken up and know what is going on and some that refuse to do so.

Remember last year when everyone saying we were going have COVID passports were called conspiracy theorists? Not so funny now is it.

I know quite a few people who have died from Cancer over the last couple of years, due to lockdown, yet I don't know anyone that has died of Covid.

The average age of death in this country is about 81. The average COVID death is 82. What does that tell you? We are now cancelling doctor/hospital appointment for older people that really need them to 'boost' 18 year old that have pretty much zero chance of dying of COVID. This is pretty sick IMO.

Regardless of all our opinions, the one question that we are not get answers to (because nobody in the media is asking) is why was this produced in a lab, how did it get out and how on earth are we going to stop it happening again.

This is intended to divide society and to be fair, they're doing a pretty good job of it.

And this is why I'm out....

And it's when the 'wake up sheeple' phrases and the 'made in a lab' stuff arrives, that I have once again remind myself to stop doubting my gut feeling - and take my leave from the thread.

...because I couldn't agree more with this.

 

[Alan Syson]

@JustLikeMe



So it only took the FDA 108 days to pass the vaccine but 75 years to release the info? Doesn’t pass my smell test.

Public Health and Medical Professionals for Transparency, who had previously complained the FDA wasn’t supplying the data they had requested in a timely fashion. Having pointed out last month that the FDA had looked through Pfizer’s documents in a mere 108 days in order to license the vaccine,

 

[JustLikeMe]

@JustLikeMe

View attachment 155232

So it only took the FDA 108 days to pass the vaccine but 75 years to release the info? Doesn’t pass my smell test.

Public Health and Medical Professionals for Transparency, who had previously complained the FDA wasn’t supplying the data they had requested in a timely fashion. Having pointed out last month that the FDA had looked through Pfizer’s documents in a mere 108 days in order to license the vaccine,

Read what I wrote again. Editing medical documents for release is a hugely time consuming process, and each processed page has to be reviewed, generally by multiple people. I've done it myself.

Edit: https://www.snopes.com/news/2021/11/19/fda-2076-vaccine-data/

 

[Tucks]

and the 'made in a lab'

Social media banned people last year form having this opinion. Not so now.

...because I couldn't agree more with this.

That's exactly what I'd expect someone refusing to take the blue pill to say.

 

[JustLikeMe]

That's exactly what I'd expect someone refusing to take the blue pill to say.

And that’s exactly how I’d expect someone applying Matrix metaphors to real life to respond.

 

[JT.]

The NHS isn't telling people anything. The NHS is doing it's job of treating people. And none of us here are qualified to do 'basic research'. Anyone without a relevant background who thinks that they are qualified to do 'basic research' is letting themselves, and the rest of us, down.

I'm qualified, I've got a Masters in Research. I can confirm that googling a few webpages or youtube videos, particularly ones related to conspiracy theorists, is defo not considered reliable. In the research field, that stuff is known by the term "total ********"...

 

[JustLikeMe]

I'm qualified, I've got a Masters in Research. I can confirm that googling a few webpages or youtube videos, particularly ones related to conspiracy theorists, is defo not considered reliable. In the research field, that stuff is known by the term "total ********"...

Apologies, should have said that most of us here aren’t qualified, not none of us.

 

[Rob zombie]

Just been to get my booster. One thing that always stands out to me with these injections is that they make you take your mask off and put a new one on from a big pile of masks. It's utterly retarded. If you do have covid you've just contaminated all the masks and every person in the queue behind you.

Absolutely bizarre.

 

[mufcmufc]

Just been to get my booster. One thing that always stands out to me with these injections is that they make you take your mask off and put a new one on from a big pile of masks. It's utterly retarded. If you do have covid you've just contaminated all the masks and every person in the queue behind you.

Absolutely bizarre.

Probably just a Wales thing, I've never been asked to swap masks

 

[M4carp]

Just been to get my booster. One thing that always stands out to me with these injections is that they make you take your mask off and put a new one on from a big pile of masks. It's utterly retarded. If you do have covid you've just contaminated all the masks and every person in the queue behind you.

Absolutely bizarre

We had ours today and kept our own masks on as with the other 2 jabs, very strange.

 

[mufcmufc]

We had ours today and kept our own masks on as with the other 2 jabs, very strange.

Yeah but he's a Gog

 

[M4carp]

Yeah but he's a Gog and speak funny

Ahh got ya

 

[DRD]

@Rob zombie

When I arrived at Heathrow at 7pm from a redlist country we were all bussed to a specific covid terminal. Everyone passing through that terminal was deemed so dangerous that we had to go into quarantine for 10 days minimum.

Runway bus was rammed.

Then we had passport control where this helpful guy showed us where to go. Neither he nor his bosses seemed too concerned about omicron.




Then we queued up again for hours to have our documentation checked again ...



Then we queued for ages waiting to get buses before our documentation was checked again

Then we were trapped for hours on a bus where the driver and prison guard did not even cover their faces with masks. We were not allowed off until our documentation was checked again.



I did not see one of these jokers sanitised their hands despite handling dozens of redlist documents over and over again.

We actually got into our prison hotel room at 1.30am

This is the prison hotel's definition of social distancing after a fire alarm



The whole administration of so many aspects of covid procedures is a joke.

Contrast with Avis car hire johannesburg. It had alcohol spray all over the place. Whenever a new person used a keyboard they sprayed it. Before and after they handled your passport/ driving licence they sprayed it.

Literally every shop/ restaurant/ outdoor bar - even in kruger park - had rudimentary foot operated alcohol sprays on the way in or staff that sprayed your hands.... and someone checked you used them



The UK has been a clown show over covid, start to finish

 

[mufcmufc]

The whole administration of so many aspects of covid procedures is a joke.

The UK has been a clown show over covid, start to finish

I can (sadly) fully get behind these 2 statements

 

[Rob zombie]

We had ours today and kept our own masks on as with the other 2 jabs, very strange.

Weird. I've had 2 at the convention centre in Llandudno and both times had to remove my mask and put a new one on. Same again tonight at a technology centre in St Asaph. Even the stupidest of people can surely see a problem with contamination.

 

[Rob zombie]

@Rob zombie

When I arrived at Heathrow at 7pm from a redlist country we were all bussed to a specific covid terminal. Everyone passing through that terminal was deemed so dangerous that we had to go into quarantine for 10 days minimum.

Runway bus was rammed.

Then we had passport control where this helpful guy showed us where to go. Neither he nor his bosses seemed too concerned about omicron.


View attachment 155262

Then we queued up again for hours to have our documentation checked again ...

View attachment 155263

Then we queued for ages waiting to get buses before our documentation was checked again

Then we were trapped for hours on a bus where the driver and prison guard did not even cover their faces with masks. We were not allowed off until our documentation was checked again.

View attachment 155264

I did not see one of these jokers sanitised their hands despite handling dozens of redlist documents over and over again.

We actually got into our prison hotel room at 1.30am

This is the prison hotel's definition of social distancing after a fire alarm

View attachment 155265

The whole administration of so many aspects of covid procedures is a joke.

Contrast with Avis car hire johannesburg. It had alcohol spray all over the place. Whenever a new person used a keyboard they sprayed it. Before and after they handled your passport/ driving licence they sprayed it.

Literally every shop/ restaurant/ outdoor bar - even in kruger park - had rudimentary foot operated alcohol sprays on the way in or staff that sprayed your hands.... and someone checked you used them

View attachment 155266

The UK has been a clown show over covid, start to finish

Matt Hancock has been caught without a mask in the London Underground tonight. Says it all.

 

[Rob zombie]

Yeah but he's a Gog

Christ I had to google that! I do speak funny it's true.....but like most people around North Wales, I'm actually from Stoke

 

[mufcmufc]

Christ I had to google that! I do speak funny it's true.....but like most people around North Wales, I'm actually from Stoke

Nah most people in your area are scousers, it's only when you get into the deeper darker north like the Llyn that you find the true Gogs

 

[DRD]

I am sorry, but I am on a roll now.....

There are plenty of smart, independent thinkers on this forum who can handle the truth. I find it a great source of advice and info for everything from buying kitchens to fixing pinball machines.

The UK redlisted South Africa and its neighbours on 26 November. In order to enter South Africa before this time you needed to have a negative pcr test, proof of vaccination and a no contact temperature test on arrival.

In order to fly back to the UK you needed to be vaccinated but did not even need to do any form of covid test !!!!!!! Hundreds of people (1,500 a day ?) were flying into the UK day after day with no testing at all.

The BA staff flying the covid express home were back in the air 2 days later !!!

 

[Rob zombie]

The whole thing is pretty crazy and that's an understatement. For me it's actually been a massive blessing in terms of work. I've been trying to find a way of working full time from home for the last 25 years. I'm no longer a slave to the commute. Still a slave of course, but now in different ways. I do feel like normal life is slipping further and further into a distant memory and I don't expect we're coming back from this to ever enjoy real freedoms again. Although of course those real freedoms weren't ever real freedom in any case. We're cattle.

 

[Deleted member 2463]

There should be daily debates on this with high calibre individuals so we hear both sides or the argument.

what’s the point David? You just make up your own mind with made up nonsense and the most ridiculous correlation of that nonsense. I think in over 30 years being on the Internet that I’ve ever read such nonsensical bull****. please do yourself a favour and stop before the men with white coats come to take you away.

 

[Deleted member 2463]

I can (sadly) fully get behind these 2 statements

Other than the fact that we’ve identified two of the most dangerous mutations and had the first vaccine out and had more people vaccinated than most other countries bar Israel…. It’s not been perfect but to claim it’s a total disaster I don’t subscribe too.

 

[PBrookfield]

Other than the fact that we’ve identified two of the most dangerous mutations and had the first vaccine out and had more people vaccinated than most other countries bar Israel…. It’s not been perfect but to claim it’s a total disaster I don’t subscribe too.

The start of everything, our response was sh*te. It's a little better now but we still have a leader that's saying stuff detached from reality, impossible targets for vaccination rates, informing the nation at the same time as the GPs of this.

Everything good about our response has been from medical professionals, not government leadership. Us doing better now is because we're listening to those professionals sooner - I don't think that's controversial to say.

 

[PBrookfield]

<Big description of South African behaviour versus British behaviour>

So the UK is filled with people that think the whole pandemic thing is overblown, a problem for other people etc. and don't want to follow rules of their own volition. They also have a government that has sometimes produced some aggressively ham-fisted and inappropriate responses at various stages of the whole ordeal.

South Africa, on the other hand, might have a few more people that are conscious of the real risk of easily transmissible, potentially serious infections, and thus has an easier time asking for people to consider other people and therefore, themselves, by following guidelines for easing transmission.

I can agree with all of that. It's a damned shame.

I'm not sure what other conclusions can be drawn from that, though.


...and here I am back in this thread, making a liar out of myself. Bleh. I'll unwatch the damn thread this time...

 

[mufcmufc]

Other than the fact that we’ve identified two of the most dangerous mutations and had the first vaccine out and had more people vaccinated than most other countries bar Israel…. It’s not been perfect but to claim it’s a total disaster I don’t subscribe too.

We have fantastic scientists, the points (I thought) were regarding administration

 

[Tucks]

And that’s exactly how I’d expect someone applying Matrix metaphors to real life to respond.

The fact that you recognise the Matrix exists is a start

 

[Rob zombie]

This is where I had my booster last night. I did wonder about the smashed windows https://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk...xW40nAmbIJ2f7hg0J0WHTDmQA59iIXWVIZsPIZ6cW3JMU

 

[Wayne J]

The following is unfiltered direct data from the hospital I work in - not government/media filtered scaremongering just hard data, from Walsall.



What I take from this graph:

Up until April of this year there was a clear 2 week lag between community infection and hospitalisation.
If the virus was rising in the community it was guaranteed to result in increased admissions in to hospital.

Seeing as we were all told not to mix at Christmas and were meant to be working from home, and as good as isolating, it is clear from the massive surge shortly following Dec 24th that a huge amount of people ignored the government advice and instruction - what else is there to explain the massive spike?

As weather warmed up and people spent more time outside the infection rate dropped.

From June - community infection rates started to climb significantly. This is shortly after Delta became the most prevalent variant in the area.
I suspect that it is also around the time that people started to think that we 'had beaten Covid' and could return to normal, mask wearing reduced, hand washing reduced and increased social activity, as restrictions were lifted in regard to pubs opening, mass events reopening.

Hospitalisations did not increase at the same rate as previously.
This is likely to be a combination of Delta not being as serious as Beta - and most importantly the number of people vaccinated, meaning that even if they did contract Covid, they did not need hospitalising (which is pretty much the point of the vaccine).

From October the percentage of infection/hospitalisation is starting to creep up - likely to be the waning of the effectiveness of the initial vaccine.

From the start of Dec there is a clear uptick in community infections - likely Omicron. There is sure to follow an increase in hospital admissions - the question is by how much? We won't be able to make a significant judgement on the seriousness of Omicron until between Xmas and New Year. Do you really want to wait until then before deciding whether to get a booster or to reduce socialising over the Christmas period? It will be too late to do anything if Omicron turns out to be anywhere near as serious as Delta.



The above shows the age of patients who have presented at hospital with Covid symptoms.
Purple - meant that they weren't admitted and could manage their symptoms from home.
Green - they had to be admitted, but subsequently recovered enough to have been sent home to complete their rehabilitation.
Red - they left in a body bag.

Although it is clear from this that the older you are the more likely you would have to have had severe enough symptoms to have to come to hospital to be assessed , there are still a significant number of younger age groups who have been severely affected.


This is the same data as the previous graph, but presented slightly differently. Making it easier to assess the outcome of each patient by age.

For someone aged between 50-54 who has to come to hospital there is a 8.1% chance of them dying. To put that in a different way, that is roughly a 13 to 1 shot of dying. To try and put that in to perspective - I won a bet last night of 14 to 1 for Alexander-Arnold to score from outside the penalty area!
These figures rise rapidly the older you get, or if you have any underlying issues.

I simply cannot understand - after almost 2 years - how people can claim such things as "it's no worse than a common cold" , "vaccines don't work" , "it's not that bad" , "it's a conspiracy" , do not understand simple maths, put the same weight from a YouTube video as they do a briefing from the Chief Medical Officer, or simply try and deflect and blame the government.

It shouldn't need an enforced lockdown, it shouldn't need constant reinforcing of the need for vaccines and booster jabs, but quite clearly it does.

Go and get whatever jab you need to get up to date, whether that be your first, second or third, wear a mask in enclosed public spaces, wash your hands and stop trying to apportion blame or claim entitlement to the freedoms that being part of a society brings you in the first place.

 

[JustLikeMe]

The following is unfiltered direct data from the hospital I work in - not government/media filtered scaremongering just hard data, from Walsall....

Great post, thanks @Wayne J - anyone want to attempt some 'basic research' with the info that's been provided here?

Boris was a clown before Covid and keeps proving he’s an even bigger c*nt time and time again

You can hear him say it himself now. Very much NSFW:

Based on my own and my family' s experience of healthcare I would tend to agree with South African Drs over UK ones. SA has previously had very strict lockdowns, banned travel without written permits..... This time round it has done nothing

 

[AlanJ]

Any info on how many people went into hospital for a non covid reason but then caught it whilst in there?