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Jsp and pinball heaven shameful

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Or just buy any JJP product through the correct channel. I dont think any MFR could just issue a full set of LED boards just because... it will set a precedent which will bleed them dry.

If anyone is considering a 2nd hand JJP product, a quick email to me and check the game number will show its genuine UK or not... very simple!

Phil
 
Fwiw I bought a WOZ from Phil. The couple of boards that failed in the first year were replaced by both Phil and JJP free of charge (1 each iirc)

Yes its a crap design and JJP should probably have just fixed them all properly but I'm not sure why Phil should be expected to give out parts 3 years later.

This is a weird thread and someone seems to have an axe to grind with Pinball Heaven
 
Long story but first I'd like to note Phil went beyond the call of duty to help me with a table I ordered via another supplier, and since then arranged a couple of new tables and a ton of parts and service is faultless.

philpalmer said:
1) Although those light boards can be problematic, the fact they worked for 4 years should really put that game out of any sort of warranty....
3) The game NEVER EVER came through my hands, it was a parallel import. So, you buy a Sony TV from France lets say, 4 year later its knackered... you take it to Dixons and ask them to fix it. WTFF!!!!
Click to expand...

On point one, if you can prove there was a fault a time of purchase then its effectively covered for six years. I think its clear these boards were defective from production. This is sales of good act, I had a new engine replaced on my daughters car, a new MacBook, new Omega Watch under this provision -
but on point 2: as you were not the retailer then its not your problem Phil! Its the original retailers!

I'd say on these boards you'd have a very strong case for replacement; frankly though from what I've seen JJP have really ballsed this one up. Its why I'm not worried about the ghosting hoohaa on Ghostbusters.

I think the original poster though is well out of order with some basic facts wrong and needs to apologise!

Cheers,
Neil.
 
I'd just like to add that I have never bought a NIB game but if I did, the only place I would buy from would be Pinball Heaven.
 
Sorry to butt in but I sell new cars for a living most cars give three years warranty after that you are on your own you might get good will from the manufacturer but only if you seen to use the dealer network but soon has you leave to go to a independent garage there wash there hands of you. Right my point his this machine is second hand even third hand it was not sold by a U.K. dealer so he has no record off the machine and history unlike if it was brought in the U.K. I have had a lot of dealing with Phil and starting buying from him recently and say I have had always 1st class service from him , What I am trying to say JJP doesn't have to get involved in because it's four years old but he seems a genuine man and trying to help the industry and hobby I wonder would stren would help you after 12 months if it had the same problem
 
Kevin said:
Sorry to butt in but I sell new cars for a living most cars give three years warranty after that you are on your own you might get good will from the manufacturer but only if you seen to use the dealer network but soon has you leave to go to a independent garage there wash there hands of you. Right my point his this machine is second hand even third hand it was not sold by a U.K. dealer so he has no record off the machine and history unlike if it was brought in the U.K. I have had a lot of dealing with Phil and starting buying from him recently and say I have had always 1st class service from him , What I am trying to say JJP doesn't have to get involved in because it's four years old but he seems a genuine man and trying to help the industry and hobby I wonder would stren would help you after 12 months if it had the same problem
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Sorry dood but that first part is absolute nonsense! If you want me to direct you to a few car dealers (some really big names! - I buy a lot of cars!) were they have learned the hard way - let me know!

If the fault was present at time of purchase -
No matter what - you have 6 years to claim a fix - don't let anyone tell you differently!

It's called the law of the land.

Regards,
Neil
 
Listen the fault was not there at time of purchase four years later in this case ,and Neil not sure what you do for a living but believe me it's not always a clear cut in consumer law has you seem to think you have to prove the fault and if it is not there all the time it's hard to prove it to the dealer sometimes and the manufacturer has the right to fix it too.
 
Strange thread..... Really feel for mission65 and his frustration but has things have been pointed out with regards to the age and the original purchase route it seems a little unfair to vent your frustration towards pinball heaven....

THIS should be a thread if for nothing else to deter prospective buyers of JJP, used or BNIB.
 
Regardless of what the law says, eveyone who is on this forum KNOWS that there are qc issues with practically all newly manufactured pinball games. To knowingly buy something you expect to be troublesome is a questionable decision.

Car manufacturers/ apple/ omega are all household names. Stern, JJP, Dutch Whatever, Spooky Whatever, JonPoppa Whatever are not.

Car makers/ apple/ omega all spend millions on mainstream media campaigns to build brand equity. They have far more valuable goodwill, far bigger balance sheets than pinball manufacturers. They have reputations that are worth something and are therefore worth saving. If you do not trust them, there are countless others in their fields you can buy from instead.

The media actually gives a toss about apple, car makers and omega. The media's customers buy hundreds of thousands or millions of these things annually. If some rich fella p1sses away £10k on a games room toy, virtually no-one gives a rat's ****. I can assure you that it will not appear on the front page of any newspaper or the tv news. Indeed many of those earning £7.50 an hour would be disgusted that their fellow man spends so much money on a toy. That the clearcoat is crap, or some led light fails really is a non issue to the bulk of the uk population.

You may seek to buy a new machine, then hope that you have the resources to pursue some form of legal claim against an overseas manufacturer. And that all the crap involved with doing so has a net benefit to you. And hope that the outcome is in line with your wishes. And hope that the manufacturer actually pays up/ does not go bust. If you enjoy warring and arguing, bonne chance.

Or you may buy a properly designed, manufactured and tested game like Shadow. If Shadow does not put lead in your pencil, then for £1500 you can choose from a vast array of tried and tested games that actually work properly and that amateurs and garragistas can economically repair.
 
Kevin said:
Listen the fault was not there at time of purchase four years later in this case ,and Neil not sure what you do for a living but believe me it's not always a clear cut in consumer law has you seem to think you have to prove the fault and if it is not there all the time it's hard to prove it to the dealer sometimes and the manufacturer has the right to fix it too.
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No the fault _was_ there! The fault isn't the board failing, the fault is the power supply not regulating the supply to those boards. Or a number of other strategies to win this.

But I agree it's not always clear, but what is clear is that if you can prove it then you have 6 years to make a claim. And of course we _want_ the manufacturer to fix it.

But thats why the internet is great, a quick google shows me that hundreds of people have experienced this light board fault, its abnormal and JJP have changed the design of the new board.

Take another example, google BMW E46 subframe, a fault that wasn't there when you got the car but develops over time and clearly a design failure, BMW give waffle waffle you are on your own, so a few of us take them to court - bang, we win, sub-frame problems all sorted out by BMW all over the freaking world. Audi TT alloys, Range Rover Diesel turbos etc etc.

Nobody can overwrite your statutory rights, many try, don't allow them.

Neil.
 
I have never asked or expected Phil to help with this problem, so please can we forget that one.
I ordered parts from Phil because they had failed, it was only after doing my homework that I read all about the problem owners had with light boards going down, anybody can see this is some sort of production fault and we should not have to pay for the upgraded part.
And when a staff member at JJP confirms the problems, tell you they have been working on a solution is good news, but to charge for that solution is not right...........
The pin is 3 years old and has had boards fitted before.

Have a read, many post about this, but this is just one.........
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/woz-lighting-problems
 
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DRD said:
Car manufacturers/ apple/ omega are all household names. Stern, JJP, Dutch Whatever, Spooky Whatever, JonPoppa Whatever are not.
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Doesn't matter what you sell or who you are and no I don't like to argue any more than I like to be ripped off! I find it depressing that folks think that being ripped off is acceptable !

Neil.
 
Neil McRae said:
No the fault _was_ there! The fault isn't the board failing, the fault is the power supply not regulating the supply to those boards. Or a number of other strategies to win this.

But I agree it's not always clear, but what is clear is that if you can prove it then you have 6 years to make a claim. And of course we _want_ the manufacturer to fix it.

But thats why the internet is great, a quick google shows me that hundreds of people have experienced this light board fault, its abnormal and JJP have changed the design of the new board.

Take another example, google BMW E46 subframe, a fault that wasn't there when you got the car but develops over time and clearly a design failure, BMW give waffle waffle you are on your own, so a few of us take them to court - bang, we win, sub-frame problems all sorted out by BMW all over the freaking world. Audi TT alloys, Range Rover Diesel turbos etc etc.

Nobody can overwrite your statutory rights, many try, don't allow them.

Neil.
Click to expand...

Good luck making that class action claim if your E46 is a 3rd-hand grey import. Won't happen.
 
Neil McRae said:
No the fault _was_ there! The fault isn't the board failing, the fault is the power supply not regulating the supply to those boards. Or a number of other strategies to win this.

But I agree it's not always clear, but what is clear is that if you can prove it then you have 6 years to make a claim. And of course we _want_ the manufacturer to fix it.

But thats why the internet is great, a quick google shows me that hundreds of people have experienced this light board fault, its abnormal and JJP have changed the design of the new board.

Take another example, google BMW E46 subframe, a fault that wasn't there when you got the car but develops over time and clearly a design failure, BMW give waffle waffle you are on your own, so a few of us take them to court - bang, we win, sub-frame problems all sorted out by BMW all over the freaking world. Audi TT alloys, Range Rover Diesel turbos etc etc.

Nobody can overwrite your statutory rights, many try, don't allow them.

Neil.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of my old BMW M3, they found cracks in the rear subframe, cost of repair was £6000, BMW got the green light to fix it FOC on a car which was 9 years old, they even sorted out a new car while they had it for 5 weeks.
I sold it after, but was happy with the service which is why I then got a M6, a happy customer is a returning customer, have we forgotten that............
The car was not a import, I was the 3rd owner, it didnt have BMW service history and it also had a few mods, so many reasons for them to refuse the claim.
 
Neil McRae said:
Why won't it? Bring me such a car and lets see!
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It won't because it wasn't sold by an official UK distributer. You would therefore have NO WARRANTY. And certainly no right to be internet shaming BMW Sheffield for instance. Not unless you fancied a libel case.
 
Whether it was sold by a UK distributer or not isn't my problem, but;

I'd be in touch with the dealer that sold it and get them to agree to fix it and pay a dealer here in the UK (has been done), in Europe rights are pretty aligned...
 
i am with kevin on this one i worked as a tech for vw and audi for 20 years and have never heard of anybody getting warranty over 3 years other than good will on certain things
i think if i have had 6 years trouble free from anything these days i would be very happy does anybody keep any electrical item over 6 years not many people sadly we live in a throw away world these days and things move on so quick
Neil when you bought your ap13 from a well known pinball supplier why did you not get a full re fund under warranty when you where not happy with it
I also remember you mentioning that car manufactures would not carry on making a car with known faults this is also not true as back in the day vag group had a well known problem with coil packs tens of thousands of cars of the road world wide did this stop the production of cars with faulty coil pack that would fail no
when the vag emissions problem came to light did they stop production errr no i drive one of those cars and there still is no re call for it
 
Neil McRae said:
Whether it was sold by a UK distributer or not isn't my problem, but;

I'd be in touch with the dealer that sold it and get them to agree to fix it and pay a dealer here in the UK (has been done), in Europe rights are pretty aligned...
Click to expand...

Then that's what the complainant should do. Coming on here and posting about Pinball Heaven, who as far as I can tell had nothing to do with this machine, is damaging to their reputation and business. This post should have been deleted by a MOD long ago.
 
chris b said:
i am with kevin on this one i worked as a tech for vw and audi for 20 years and have never heard of anybody getting warranty over 3 years other than good will on certain things
i think if i have had 6 years trouble free from anything these days i would be very happy does anybody keep any electrical item over 6 years not many people sadly we live in a throw away world these days and things move on so quick
Neil when you bought your ap13 from a well known pinball supplier why did you not get a full re fund under warranty when you where not happy with it
I also remember you mentioning that car manufactures would not carry on making a car with known faults this is also not true as back in the day vag group had a well known problem with coil packs tens of thousands of cars of the road world wide did this stop the production of cars with faulty coil pack that would fail no
when the vag emissions problem came to light did they stop production errr no i drive one of those cars and there still is no re call for it
Click to expand...

Chris,
Warranty is irrelevant. AP13 l older than 6 years mate - but surely _you_ know that ;)

To be honest I'm amazed I got anything as the law was not on my side! I got the money put to another machine - Ghostbusters! Although if he had not taken it back I'd have still taken him to small claims court.

And I agree people throw things away more than they should, its criminal when if the fault was present when you bought it you can get it fixed. Remember its the law, if you buy something that has a fault at time of purchase the selling organisation has to resolve it if you claim before 6 years.

Check out:

http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

Chris -on cars - it depends on the fault for sure, and the coil packs; Audi didn't need to stop production on this as the supplier was liable for the fix and the swap out (hitachi as I recall). Recalls are typically only done on significant safety issues, as you should know, manufacturers have "campaigns" were they fix things as cars come in for regular servicing, Regards the emissions issue, you should phone your dealer:

VW is currently rolling out the fix for its affected models. A spokesman told us it has already fixed 160,000 of the 1,189,906 cars in the UK. For the 1.2 and 2.0-litre EA 189 engines it’s a simple software tweak; the 1.6-litre diesels require a hardware solution. It has pledged to fix all European cars affected by the scandal by autumn 2017
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Cheers,
Neil.
 
RobZombie said:
Then that's what the complainant should do. Coming on here and posting about Pinball Heaven, who as far as I can tell had nothing to do with this machine, is damaging to their reputation and business. This post should have been deleted by a MOD long ago.
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He didn't - some other dood did !
 
chris b said:
.... would fail no when the vag emissions problem came to light ....
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May I just politely stop you there @chris b, WTF!!

There is a real thing in the automotive industry called 'vag emissions'? Once, and only once, my wife gave me a 'vag emission', after a lively bedroom experience where she was left lying over the side of the bed, then when she tried to get up we got the old 'vag emissions; sounded like a slippery post-10-pint-curry-fart - most amusing. Surely every man has experienced this at some time in their life?!? This cannot be a technical term in the car industry, I call shenanigans here :suspect:
 
Kevin said:
Sorry to butt in but I sell new cars for a living most cars give three years warranty after that you are on your own you might get good will from the manufacturer but only if you seen to use the dealer network but soon has you leave to go to a independent garage there wash there hands of you. Right my point his this machine is second hand even third hand it was not sold by a U.K. dealer so he has no record off the machine and history unlike if it was brought in the U.K. I have had a lot of dealing with Phil and starting buying from him recently and say I have had always 1st class service from him , What I am trying to say JJP doesn't have to get involved in because it's four years old but he seems a genuine man and trying to help the industry and hobby I wonder would stren would help you after 12 months if it had the same problem
Click to expand...
Stern recently repaired a CPU board of a 5 year old game for me free of charge. They even posted it back to me at their cost.
 
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