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Interesting thoughts.....

Sgt GrizZ said:
its what I talk about when not talking about Popeye
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Firstly I don't believe this. This would fall under the category of 'Fake News'. Talk about something else, I really don't believe it.

Secondly, no one has seemed to mention Multimorphic. Now that's Innovation! But does anyone like it? NO. Be careful what you wish for people.
 
Sgt GrizZ said:
I was talking to someone this week about Baywatch (its what I talk about when not talking about Popeye :D) - the point being exactly this ... if Stern released a machine now with the Baywatch playfield layout people would be hosing themselves ....unique playfield layout, multiple ramps and wireforms and VUKS, 4 flippers, drop target bank, trapdoor lock, clever divertor gate to reverse ball back round an orbit etc ...and this is a 20+ year old design. So a 20 year old design is offering more than most Pro model Sterns do now.

Code is a different matter I guess.
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I'm with @Sgt GrizZ on this. Stern put in minimal effort in regards to the amount of mechs and 'toys' included in each playfield.

Coding is a different beast - yes it makes for a much deeper ruleset, but it doesn't always make the game more enjoyable to play.

We live in a world now where all devices are connected to the internet. Why wouldn't you at least want a pinball machine connected to the net to see how your score compares to others (in your country, rest of the world, your friends etc etc)....
 
Paul said:
Thats ridiculous...I'm not a pinball designer... Name some major additions.... Short of a colour screen and Artwork.....
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USB Update (Stern)
CAN Bus wiring system (Stern)
Contactless switches (Heighway)
Onscreen troubleshooting & manual (JJP)
Playfield Contruction (Pinball Bros (but I detailed this in 2000))
Depth of code (JJP)
Gameplay strategy (Stern, particularly shot multipliers)
Ball tracking (Multimorphic)
Playfield modules (Multimorphic)
 
If it ain't broke? It's pinball, it's a simple game. When they try and mess with the basic formula, say Pin2000 or whatever it's kinda gimmicky. More mechs would be nice but that's more Stern trying to cost cut. I do think online score boards is an absolute open goal for someone though.
 
huggers said:
I do think online score boards is an absolute open goal for someone though.
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In theory I agree, but how do you calibrate the leader boards for varying settings, no of balls, pitch, etc though? Only take one bad apple to take the glass off and run up a monumental cheaters score to populate the top slot and it’s ruined. Just look on Pinside for candidates!
 
Monkeyboypaul said:
In theory I agree, but how do you calibrate the leader boards for varying settings, no of balls, pitch, etc though? Only take one bad apple to take the glass off and run up a monumental cheaters score to populate the top slot and it’s ruined. Just look on Pinside for candidates!
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I hear this time and again. This isn't the world series, it's a casual leader board for average punters. If you want a tournament then it'll happen under other conditions. What operator is going to leave the game with the glass off?
 
Shoving loads of fancy LCD screens in the backbox or playfield isn't really innovation though, they are distractions. Everything comes with unnecessary screens these days, printers... fridges!

I prefer all the custom mechs from the 90s era games like the ball chomping T-rex in JP or the spinning crate in TOM, that sort of thing. But they are complex components and more costly to build in the first place let alone repair. You can see why manufacturers would rather build elements in software rather than hardware.

I think the modern tables with RGB LEDs has been good innovation though. They look fab on machines like Alien, much more so than the embedded playfield screen (although the mini screen looked good towards the back)

Why don't Stern add 3.5mm jacks to the front though for people to plug in headphones? I'm aware there was a machine once that came with one (GnR) but it never really caught on. I'm not sure if Jersey Jack machines have them. How many machines are sold to private homes these days compared to arcades...

I think maybe the next thing we'll see is to add wifi connectivity which could provide a whole new set of opportunities such as:
-Ability to download firmware updates over the internet
-Online high scores (with playfield glass detection to prevent [some] cheating)
-Download special limited time events (at Halloween all the LEDs go orange, at Christmas they're all red/green)
-Change sound packages (like Pinsound)

Or how's this for an out-there "pinnovative" idea...
A camera in the backbox which points at the playfield to detect the ball. It records yourself playing (when flippers are pressed, what mechs activate etc) and then plays it back "virtually" on the machine with a ball projected onto the glass with flippers working in real-time.
 
Sven Normansson said:
I hear this time and again. This isn't the world series, it's a casual leader board for average punters. If you want a tournament then it'll happen under other conditions. What operator is going to leave the game with the glass off?
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Football’s only a game too, but some people take it far too seriously! Like this thread perhaps. I don’t want a global tournament, maybe just a Nintendo-style ‘friend request’ system for a closed group of trusted like-minded people. Then again I’m pretty happy with the games I have and how they work/play/look, so no rush!
 
That's a great idea. If we could combine leaderboards across friendship groups and people you trust it would eliminate the bellends who would inevitably whip the glass of and cheat. Well, most of them!
 
If the machine can send its scores up to the internet then I guess there's no reason why it can't have the number of balls settings, pitch, etc included.

Then there's been talk of having seasonal feature packs that you could pay a small amount to unlock and which would download automatically. Cloud backups of scores and settings. In game purchases. etc.

In fact when you think about video games, and how much more fun most of them are when you are connected to the internet and other players, it may seem odd one day that anyone would want to play a single player game by themselves.
 
Innovation is key to most things that have longevity. Some innovation is gimmicky, some is frankly crap and regressive on occasion, but out of that creativity comes those things that in hindsight seem absolutely obvious. How do you innovate on taxis, Uber did; Apple have created whole new industries from things that have been around for absolutely ages. Thermostats are dumb on and off things but the innovation there is so clearly obvious and a game changer, but it still just turns things on and off.

Frankly I can't believe that internet connectivity hasn't come to Pinball more broadly. My BOP 2.0 has that capability but with minimal functionality. As Phil said above, some great innovation has happened but I think a load more could be done.
 
I've mentioned this a few times over the years, but I'd love to see bluetooth connectivity to phone apps.

So for example, you download an app on your phone for JJPs latest game, Pirates. When you walk up to the game, it knows who you are (or if there are multiple people with the app nearby, then onscreen display asks you to select from a short list)

Then it can record how many spinner shots you make in that game, or your all time number of ramp shots, multiball starts etc etc. You get 'trophies' for completing these (like in any modern console game). Trophies are the modern day pokemon cards. Got to get them all. The online functionality for leaderboards etc can then be generated from your phone, uploading this data to global leaderboards

App can give you tips after 'watching' you play. Like 'oh in that game you played earlier today you made enough ramp shots to light the lock. Did you know you could have shot the scoop' blah blah, just some tips on gameplay. Could use onscreen graphics to replay animations of the shots you made. Of course the app could have more complete gameplay rules and so on for reading when you're stuck on the train or whatever.

Other little possible benefits from a phone app might be that you can load the app up with credits, then use those credits to play games on the street (possibly a bit of hassle to implement. Each operator would need to register to receive the credits etc). App could also show you nearby locations of games on site (again, all identified via bluetooth, and then the phone gps and internet connection)

So many possibilities with this. I'd also be more than happy to take on coding responsibilities for all this if any manufacturer is reading ;)
 
Genius... Stats alone would be fab and a great training tool. L last things hit before a drain etc... Interesting to compare games against your own or against others.
 
I really don't get the desire to share pinball machine scores/stats on the internet because no 2 machines are comparable. You could have 2 machines with an identical pitch level, outlane posts and every other variable you believe can be set the same and they'll still play differently. It's a physical game and it's just the way it is.
 
Are you watching @Stern @JJP .... oops they aren't here...

And maybe that's the other thing. Engagement with the buying public.

So pinside is the biggest, followed by one of the forums in Auz i think... however we must rank in the top 5 pinball forums in the world where direct fan engagement can be gained.... Yes relatively small fry... however things that work in the USA dont work here... which dont work in Germany as an example. I dont see any direct customer involvement other than US bar owners.

Or maybe (more than likely) we are too small for them to care about.
Which may be influenced by the price..

How many here would be more likely to buy a NIB if they were all pitched at Premium quality, and at £4.5k?
 
Monkeyboypaul said:
In theory I agree, but how do you calibrate the leader boards for varying settings, no of balls, pitch, etc though? Only take one bad apple to take the glass off and run up a monumental cheaters score to populate the top slot and it’s ruined. Just look on Pinside for candidates!
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The software could auto change to a default set of parameters when you play online (it could even offer unique rules or achievement points etc) With regard to glass removal etc, a cheap camera could record every game to ensure it is valid. It is possible and quite easily done, but there is no incentive to spend the extra money from the manufacturer's point of view because they are selling plenty already.
 
Been watching/reading this thread with interest, what about playing as a team online? I.e. one team member has to achieve a certain feature, while another has to achieve something else, etc. If both / all achieve it, it unlocks a bonus/ secret level with different scoring & graphics, (like green GI on space station etc) this could even go on to a final challenge as players fall by the wayside, could the screen still show you their progress even if you were dead? Maybe this could be played live with 3 or 4 machines set up next to each other at events? Thinking out loud this would have to be a great stand alone game, but with this feature built in, could code be written and added to existing games?
Could this be a type of ready player one game where all over the world they play at the same time? Tying to achieve a goal? Maybe this would be more Virtual pinball tables linked together with the tables changing and you have to achieve a certain score to move onto the next one with players falling until there is only one left?
Tony
 
The internet is pretty fast these days so what about playing against each other. Think medal of honour or other first person shoot out type games.
You take out items on your opponents machine. You defend yours from there’s.
 
Personally I couldn't give a monkeys about any kind of internet connectivity bobbins. We have enough of that in all walks of life already , does my head in - only today I heard some muppet from Amazon banging on about how brilliant it is to be able to switch your microwave on/off via some app. FFS :rofl: I'd much rather any resources were used on playfield / game design.

I don't really care about seeing other peoples scores, or trying to faff about connecting with someone etc etc. What was that JJP nonsense controlling DI via your phone. Utterly pointless :p

To paraphrase the great Peter Fonda ....

'We wanna be free to (play)....free to (play) our machines without being hassled by the (internet) man' :cool::D

 
You could have machines linked via the internet and play against someone in another location, think NBA Fastbreak. Maybe matchplay against someone where you have to last the longest with one ball. Games liked Dialled in can control the flippers and drain the ball if someone cradles for over 2 seconds..........

That said, why would you? Wouldn't it be nicer and easier playing against the guy (or gal) standing next to you.

Like many innovations in life, just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Think of all the cr*p on Dragons Den. Although the bloke that made the armchair/Gym was a genius and should have got backing. :cuckoo:
 
Sgt GrizZ said:
I'd much rather any resources were used on playfield / game design.
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If audits could be centrally collected from connected machines whilst software is under development (rather than people going around with USB keys and emailing text files - who is actually going to bother?), I am sure it would benefit the resultant code and maybe future hardware design too. It's really useful to gather a lot of statistics on how stuff performs in the real world.
 
ChriX said:
If audits could be centrally collected from connected machines whilst software is under development (rather than people going around with USB keys and emailing text files - who is actually going to bother?), I am sure it would benefit the resultant code and maybe future hardware design too. It's really useful to gather a lot of statistics on how stuff performs in the real world.
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^^^ wot he said...
 
Other than the lack of innovation, the quality of the artwork and in particular the print quality has gone back big steps. I had a couple of recent sterns and it was embarrassing to look at the prints too closely.
 
domlouis said:
Other than the lack of innovation, the quality of the artwork and in particular the print quality has gone back big steps. I had a couple of recent sterns and it was embarrassing to look at the prints too closely.
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How recent? Between all our Thursday Club we've had virtually every Stern and the quality of the artwork prints has been amazing. Maybe back in the potc and bdk era they were pixellated but not recent.
 
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