IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ - Comments on Sales/trades/wanted threads

Comments on sales/Trades/Wanted threads.... Yes or no.... (Simple choice!)

  • Yes

    Votes: 121 84.6%
  • No

    Votes: 22 15.4%

  • Total voters
    143

Scorn

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Sep 25, 2018
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Dy13
Used to visit the for sale pages far to much or my own good.

Since the changes I’ve found them quiet a desolate place. Bereft of any discussion and information to be gleaned.

appreciate all the hard work people put into this site and not meaning to be a d!ck about it but I prefer the old way.

maybe it’s better it doesn’t change back as I spend allot less time browsing than I did
 

Gonzo

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Sep 2, 2019
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I also think the new classified section is hard to navigate and would just like to go back to the good old way I wonder if traffic to the website has dropped

This is really the only relevant issue.

I own a football forum and when my football club introduced it's own ticket exchange it removed a major attraction from my site and started a gradual decline. Members used to pop on for a ticket and then stick around to talk about the game or players. WhatsApp was the killer blow (although the site still exists) but the removal of the ticket section killed off a lot of the banter and the reason for people hovering on the site waiting for a ticket to be listed.

It's slightly different of course but I did wonder about traffic to this site. Obviously everything is compartmentalised now and everyone is on their best behaviour but that doesn't always make for a free-flowing chat and refreshing of pages which is what it's all about.
 

cyberkryten

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Jul 18, 2017
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Is it possible to at least get the extra threads generated by the new Sales/Wanted tagged with as well? Being able to see ForSale/Wanted in the subject line makes scanning through by 'New Posts' easier
 
OP
Paul

Paul

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Oct 5, 2012
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For info, Users active has remained steady... Number of posts has reamined steady. No obvious adverse affects.

Jan 2020 : Number of visits: 65,544 - Average: 721 s
Jan 2021 : Number of visits: 57,018 - Average: 762 s (Still 3 days left of january, so will be more)

There are obviously extenuating circumstances at the moment... Some lockdown thing... which will potentially increase or decrease sales... people cant just jump in their car to pick a machine up... and have to rely on the likes or Martin to do their collections (and if ytou are like me, whilst you dont at all mind martin collecting and delivering as it's a lot less hassle.... to drop cash on a machine sight unseen, then another £100 on delivery... it all adds up..

However... As i have always said, i am always looking for ways to improve the site, and the site members are key to this. however to be fair, I'm not changing things up because 2 or 3 people "just dont like it"...

I did some investigation yesterday (Yes, i am here daily, although i dont always post)... There are other offerings out there, however they are very similar in the fact that they are templated inputs.

Example :

1611905265073.png

1611905790385.png

1611905834324.png

This one doesnt have the bells and whistles like feedback etc etc, so is easier to use... I just dont know.

I'm not sure if peoples main gripe is that it's almost like a separate part of the forum, that it's not as "convenient" because it cant be accessed via Tapatalk (which i re-iterate will be going, so a mute point to be fair), wether it's because it looks different, if it's because they have to put certain info in...

We could go back to the previous way, however there are a number of caveats to this i would want in place... whilst the other place was easy for someone selling something as they could just "slap it in there", that doesnt mean that it's the best way... Yes, its easier to sell... however the mess has to be cleaned up afterwards...and lots of questions were around info that hadnt been provided in the first place...

It also means that the ability to post feedback, search on expired sales, be able to view anything currently "valid" etc all go - everything is in one pot, which is just messy and dishorganised, as it was.
I would be looking at anything older than a certain age be moved into an archive - where no-one can post, however they could be searched. But this is reliant on the poster... The fact that people have to edit the title to change from "for sale" to "sold" is just a pain...
 
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Fubar

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I'm not sure if peoples main gripe is that it's almost like a separate part of the forum, that it's not as "convenient" because it cant be accessed via Tapatalk (which i re-iterate will be going, so a mute point to be fair), wether it's because it looks different, if it's because they have to put certain info in...
First off I want to say that I appreciate what you're doing here isn't easy - people (me included!) are always going to moan and it's not easy to receive negative feedback on something you've spent hours working on. I think this forum is amazing and I want it to be successful, and buying/selling machines is one of the main reasons new members will join.

IMHO, it's about function vs form. The new classifieds have all the functionality, but the UI could certainly be improved - @huggers' post above has some good suggestions. To elaborate:
  • I browse the forum exclusively from the "What's new" link. This doesn't tie in to the classifieds well:
    • When someone posts a new ad, the link in What's new brings me to the (usually empty) Discussion tab. It should link to the Overview.
    • In the What's New listing, it's not shown whether it's a machine or a part, and more crucially whether it's a Wanted or FS post.
      • Personally I'd like to have the key information shown in the listing without having to open the ad: is it a machine or a part? For sale or wanted? What's the price?
    • When someone posts a question, the link is to the Discussion tab, where there is a placeholder "Fubar posted a question", then I have to click the questions tab to read it.
  • Display of ads:
    • The seller's avatar is not shown in the Overview tab, it should be next to their name in the info box on the right.
    • Personally I find the price isn't very visible, grey on grey in a small font up top - meh. I'd rather it be included in the thread title to be honest.
    • The questions tab is redundant, as questions are displayed below the overview anyway. Suggest simplifying things by removing the questions tab.
    • A sold advert still has a green "For Sale" flair, in addition to a new "Sold" flair displayed somewhere else.
    • It isn't very obvious how to get sold ads to appear. In the relevant filter dropdown, what's the difference between "Sold ads" and "Closed ads" anyway?
      • My suggestion would be to have a "Machines Sold" category on the right (and similarly for parts etc.)
Again I'm not ranting here, just trying to help make things better - as an engineer I know it's always better to receive actionable feedback rather than vague "before was better" comments. Hope that helps 👍
 

JustLikeMe

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Aug 29, 2011
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Just one more voice to say that whilst I do of course appreciate all the work that goes on behind the scenes here, I definitely preferred the old format. I tend to start my visit from the 'Latest Posts' section where classifieds don't appear which is a shame, and I personally miss the discussion on each thread.

I don't mean to moan as this is a great place, and if this is how it will be going forwards then I'm sure we'll all adjust - but I'll be another one mourning the old way.
 
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Ads Nems

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Feb 6, 2012
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@Paul on the new classifieds , one thing I’ve noticed is when an ad is closed/sold, on many of them the price box disappears. Not sure if the original poster removes the price or the system automatically does it when it gets closed.

I used to find it very helpful to be able to check out prices on sold pins as a helpful reference point

is it intentional on the new system to remove the price box once the ad is closed or is it possible to still display it?
 

Paul R Owen

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Nov 15, 2011
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Just one more voice to say that whilst I do of course appreciate all the work that goes on behind the scenes here, I definitely preferred the old format. I tend to start my visit from the 'Latest Posts' section where classifieds don't appear which is a shame, and I personally miss the discussion on each thread.

I don't mean to moan as this is a great place, and if this is how it will be going forwards then I'm sure we'll all adjust - but I'll be another one mourning the old way.
They do appear now.
 

Stags6969

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Sep 7, 2018
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Hi @Paul I've not commented on the new system as I am trying to let you iron out any issues first, that people have already commented on.
I generally use the forum in 2 ways.
1. Have an alert set up that shows up on my phone for any new machine wanted or for sale
2. Browse via the New Posts or What's New tabs.

The only "real" issue I have so far is that when an item is sold it still shows For Sale in the alert part. Is there a way that you can change this? Nothing worse than seeing the alert saying For Sale and then when you get there it says Sold
Thanks
 

BigIan

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Jul 21, 2011
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My problem is the for sale thread don’t show up as for sale when in the new post view
tales of the Arabian nights post here

EEAFAFE2-1489-4A6D-889A-409EAB2D177D.png

doesn’t have a for sale tab until you get into the post
AC55ED92-46C7-42C5-8F5D-0CD1BB7D2706.png
hardly a deal breaker but kinda annoying especially for hot items that will be gone before I get to see them..

im on an iPad running iOS 14.4 and browse from new posts
 

Pick Holder

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Guys - perhaps it needs fine tuning a little.

If its not working out in say a couple of months - then maybe Paul can put it back to the old system.

Do not forget - everyone hates Facebook when they change the layout. Then when they change it again. everyone moans they liked it the previous way.....

Keep up the good work @Paul - also dont forget we need to get together soon ref jukebox.
 

JAG555

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Jul 23, 2017
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Sincere apologies if I'm flogging a dead horse here and I certainly don't mean to belittle anyone's efforts but this new classified thing... Is it just me or is it a bit crap? Way more clicks to get where you want to go. Ads disappearing when sold. Parts and pins mixed unless you select the right category. User avatar of seller not shown (I recognise half the people on here by their pic rather than their name). The old classic forum way was so much easier all round. I can't tell where the discussion is happening without clicking an ad to check. Separating questions and discussion is needless. Especially when it indicates a question has been asked in the discussion section. You then have to click the questions tab. It's over engineered and unintuitive. I've basically stopped visiting the FS section, maybe a good thing, I'm skint! Anyway sorry to complain but I feel it's a backward step.
Bit late to the party, but I couldn’t agree more with the above.

I think this fantastic forum is worse off.

Just my 10 cents, but I miss the old sales ads. Is it me or are there also less machines for sale?
 

JAG555

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As many have put, I appreciate everyone’s efforts in running this great forum.

I do think though there is a general consensus that it was better before. Not all change is good or required.

Maybe a vote would help give an idea to people’s thoughts?
 

Darthsinex

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Apr 22, 2014
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As many have put, I appreciate everyone’s efforts in running this great forum.

I do think though there is a general consensus that it was better before. Not all change is good or required.

Maybe a vote would help give an idea to people’s thoughts?
There was a vote. Large majority voted to keep the sales forum as it was. It changed anyway. Overwhelming response in comments following the change has been to request it be changed back. It hasn't been. Not sure what asking people again would achieve as the views of regular users is not apparently driving these changes.
 

JAG555

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There was a vote. Large majority voted to keep the sales forum as it was. It changed anyway. Overwhelming response in comments following the change has been to request it be changed back. It hasn't been. Not sure what asking people again would achieve as the views of regular users is not apparently driving these changes.

I don’t recall seeing a vote on the old system against the the new classified ads?

I voted on the comments on Sales Threads, but that was the only vote saw.

The reason I (and many others) are posting about this is to give feedback and opinions, which after all is what a forum is.

I hope that there is enough consensus that it is changed back.

Also, I am yet to see unequivocal support for the new classified section.

Again, just my 10 cents.
 

J.C.Rox

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I think we're all singing from the same hymn sheet. Old was simple and fine bar the odd childish scuffle (which was usually quite entertaining on a dull day!) and new is convoluted and a pain to navigate. The problem could be it might not be as easy to reverse as we are hoping if @Paul changed the operating system used for the forum.
 

Calimori

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Mar 15, 2012
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Aside from being a mod I use this forum to buy stuff and I do like that it forces the seller for pictures and they expire after a time.
I might have been the first person to buy a pin on the new system and felt it was more mature that the old offering.
Not everyone posts their opinions, people are more likely to post negative views because they are motivated as they want change

How can we get the new system to meet folks expectations as there are many positives for those who are buying, that are as important as sale threads occasionally generating entertainment. ;)
 

JAG555

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Aside from being a mod I use this forum to buy stuff and I do like that it forces the seller for pictures and they expire after a time.
I might have been the first person to buy a pin on the new system and felt it was more mature that the old offering.
Not everyone posts their opinions, people are more likely to post negative views because they are motivated as they want change

How can we get the new system to meet folks expectations as there are many positives for those who are buying, that are as important as sale threads occasionally generating entertainment. ;)

I agree about not everyone giving their opinions, so that is why a vote might be best and let the community decide.
 
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Paul

Paul

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There was a vote. Large majority voted to keep the sales forum as it was. It changed anyway. Overwhelming response in comments following the change has been to request it be changed back. It hasn't been. Not sure what asking people again would achieve as the views of regular users is not apparently driving these changes.
Incorrect. I had suggested - no, advised - that a new sales offering was coming in for a while. The vote was for wether to allow comments on sales threads or not.

As for the views of "regular users" - We are in a period of change. People, by human nature dont like change... it has to be given a while to settle in... If i changed the look/icons/functionality every week then people would be rightly hacked off - hence why i havent just jerk-reaction changed back again.

The reason it changed (from my perspective) was threefold -

One - The old way of doing things meant that on a regular basis you would get people asking if an item had sold months, maybe years after it was listed. To be honest, usually caused by sellers that didnt update the status when the item was sold.
Two - The new method allowed for some kind of automated governance (i.e. Keeping the list of sales items fresh.... Example - if you are selling something and it's been 30 days and it hasnt sold, then either a) the price it too high, b) no-one is geninely interested or c) it was posted and just left there. in all three of these instances then the seller would need to manually extend (we have a number where they were posted, a few Q's asked and then it was just left abandoned... then leading to point One above 6-9 months later. If it's just left then either it's sold and hasnt been updated, it isnt for sale, or the person just joined, stuck it there and left. The old method was easy on the Sellers and labour intensive on the admin side.
Three - It gives a framework around a sales thread... for example, not posting a pic (or series of) for a £5k machine is just lazyness. People handing over Serious ££ also should be presented with any issues or plus points up front - not have to ask for them. It also makes clear as to what someone is buying, for the avoidance of doubt, and gives those people all the facts up front.

I can switch back within an hour or so - that isnt the point though. Sellers who have posted then have to re-post in the old section... meaning they are inconvenienced.

I would LIKE the chance to have more of a play with what we currently have, and iron out some of the issues listed above, however working a 14 hour day, and the current climate means time is unfortunately limited... (it took a 9 months and 5 Beta testers to get this far)... I'm not proud, and if i thought that we had to then i would... however after a month i would ask that people give it a crack first, and also allow me to try to refine things before we go back.

One thing i would say though is that If we did go back, that would be on the proviso that we have a moderator that oversees and "runs" the Sales/classified forums.
 
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Paul

Paul

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for those that were unaware.... Look at the title of this thread!!! "

Comments on sales/Trades/Wanted threads.... Yes or no.... (Simple choice!)​

That was what was voted on.

I bring in new functionality where i can, however im not about to court oppinion on every single change!! Thats just not possible (there would be several votes in a week, and would be unsustainable!).

I was contemplating about bring in a completely different look in the coming months...more integration, more news from the pinball world all on the same site. May as well can that idea then.
 
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