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How many plays do you give a machine at home before deciding you don’t like it?

strobey said:
For me a pin has to have some kind of chase.
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This is exactly it for me - which is why the majority of older games do nothing for me as having reached Battle for the Kingdom, Valinor, Final Battle, etc. etc. I lose interest - it's not even about the score.
That's why AIQ lasted such a short time with me.

Even better have a number of different goals/objectives to aim for, which can be worked on simultaneously and thus change the way you attack every individual game. This is where Stern far outperforms every other manufacturer, and have done for some time. Insider Connect adds even more mini goals / achievements to go for.

Different people's skill levels will see these goals change - too easy and you get bored and don't play, too hard and you get frustrated and don't play.
 
I had TZ 20 yr and got LITZ twice! However if I was near I would pop the extra ball just to get there as it’s a fun wizard mode.
It was a keeper but I’ve now came to the conclusion nothing is a keeper especially when crazy money is getting offered.
I can usually tell 1st ball if I like a game as a good example take JP, I hated the game immediately but everyone here said I wasn’t giving it time.
6 weeks later it wasn’t getting ball time so I sold it for 5k at the start of lockdown.
The only reason I wished I’d kept is the fact I’ve seen a few including mine go for 7k! Crazy times.
 
Wayne J said:
This is exactly it for me - which is why the majority of older games do nothing for me as having reached Battle for the Kingdom, Valinor, Final Battle, etc. etc. I lose interest - it's not even about the score.
That's why AIQ lasted such a short time with me.

Even better have a number of different goals/objectives to aim for, which can be worked on simultaneously and thus change the way you attack every individual game. This is where Stern far outperforms every other manufacturer, and have done for some time. Insider Connect adds even more mini goals / achievements to go for.

Different people's skill levels will see these goals change - too easy and you get bored and don't play, too hard and you get frustrated and don't play.
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This is why I have all modern sterns. I’m all about the modes, wizard/ mini wizard modes and maybe a super wizard mode that I’ll probably never get to but can work towards. Just trying to beat my high score doesn’t keep my interest
 
Neil McRae said:
What game is it?

play it in a competition and if you win on it you know for Sure or not if it’s a keeper.
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I’m not going to be competing any time soon I don’t think so that won’t help me decide.

I didn’t say what game it was because I didn’t want to be accused of inviting offers but since a few people have dm’d asking I may as well say anyway, its Deadpool. Just to be clear it’s not for sale atm!

I can’t quite figure out why I’m not enjoying it though. It may be that the wizard modes aren’t very satisfying, I enjoy a wizard mode that’s more an actual mode like escape nublar or final battle in turtles a lot more than shoot all the shots for jackpots and collect a sjp. It just feels more rewarding and if you can get to the wizard mode but can’t complete it, it keeps you trying over and over. There’s also no super wizard mode to aim for.

It’s also my only 2 flipper game so it’s possible I don’t enjoy 2 flipper games as much at home. I’ve thought about getting another modern 2 flipper game to see if that’s what it is. I think I’ve narrowed that down to either Elvira HoH or STh but need to play both more first to decide if either will appeal.

It could be something about the way it shoots that I dont realise im not enjoying. I’m not sure!
 
I’m completely the opposite regarding wizard modes. i rarely get to them on my modern games as i’m not good enough. I prefer the SS games, easy to understand and still provide me big enough challenges.

Having said that i’ve got through wh2o, MM, TZ and TAF. Never finished Stern star trek pro, but will keep trying once it comes back off loan
 
Jib said:
This is why I have all modern sterns. I’m all about the modes, wizard/ mini wizard modes and maybe a super wizard mode that I’ll probably never get to but can work towards. Just trying to beat my high score doesn’t keep my interest
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This might be why Deadpool doesn’t appeal as much (?)

I’ve only played DP a few times (it’s over at Chief Coffee, and not PBR), but my understanding is that it’s a pretty straightforward pin, i.e. it’s all about fighting the baddies. I’ve seen people say it’s great for kids/families for that reason, and - also - that it makes a nice pairing with a more code-intensive/cerebral pin like A:IQ.
 
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VeeMonroe said:
This might be why Deadpool doesn’t appeal as much (?)

I’ve only played DP a few times (it’s over at Chief Coffee, and not PBR), but my understanding is that it’s a pretty straightforward pin, i.e. it’s all about fighting the baddies. I’ve seen people say it’s great for kids/families for that reason, and - also - that it makes a nice pairing with a more code-intensive/cerebral pin like A:IQ.
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I mean it’s not lacking modes in comparison to most older pins so I thought it’d keep me happy still. I want to try some other games but it might turn out I’m just an Elwin lover and in the end I just have his games plus turtles.
 
Jib said:
I mean it’s not lacking modes in comparison to most older pins so I thought it’d keep me happy still. I want to try some other games but it might turn out I’m just an Elwin lover and in the end I just have his games plus turtles.
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I’ve got to admit, 99% of the modern Sterns I like are Elwins…

I also like Star Wars, when I’ve had the opportunity to play it (unsure if it would have staying power at home), and I enjoy Stranger Things - although mostly I regard it as a modern version of MM/AFM.
 
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Jib said:
I mean it’s not lacking modes in comparison to most older pins so I thought it’d keep me happy still. I want to try some other games but it might turn out I’m just an Elwin lover and in the end I just have his games plus turtles.
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Different flavours for different folks, I love Deadpool but can’t stand Turtles, found it about as fun as pulling teeth.
 
I’m shocked you don’t like DP but I have to admit it’s really for the larger lineup I guess.
I’ve had a few non pin friends say it’s there fav out of the 7 playable games I always have up and running.
That said since GZ entered into the lineup it’s getting the most love off everyone with DP a close 2nd. Same way I feel about my pins too

Have you played GOTG i think the wiz modes on that are super fun especially with Jim’s soundtrack installed
 
Colywobbles said:
I’m shocked you don’t like DP but I have to admit it’s really for the larger lineup I guess.
I’ve had a few non pin friends say it’s there fav out of the 7 playable games I always have up and running.
That said since GZ entered into the lineup it’s getting the most love off everyone with DP a close 2nd. Same way I feel about my pins too

Have you played GOTG i think the wiz modes on that are super fun especially with Jim’s soundtrack installed
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I’m shocked too! I think it’s my mums new favourite, she said she enjoyed Godzilla too when she came over but she sure pressed the start button on DP a lot!

I may just need to play it more, maybe I’ll end up loving it. There’s not another game I really really want atm anyway so it makes sense to keep it a while. I’d like to try Elvira and Stranger Things at home but I’m also not desperately seeking them.

GotG I do like when I’ve played it on location but I played it quite a lot on the vpin so I feel like I’d rather have something I haven’t explored as much and I know there’s an improved version coming out for vpx soon too.
 
Neil McRae said:
how have you set up deadpool?

Neil.
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It’s set up easy but making it harder wont make it more fun for me, in fact it’ll probably make it less fun. As I said in another thread I’m very inconsistent but I play quite a lot so I have some good games mixed in with the crap ones. If they’re all crap cos I’ve set it up hard then I’ll just get frustrated if I’m not enjoying the basics of the game anyway.

On the plus side I love ZY art so it looks pretty 😂
 
Pick Holder said:
I must be one of the only people on here who is not an Elwin fan.
Deadpool will be an easy sale Fran.
I love the DMD era games, and think the CGC remakes are the best built machines for years.
We are all different.
Hope the 'gym' building is going well ;)
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I love the cgc remakes too and others from the same era. I originally wanted a MM from playing it on the vpin and MB I always have fun playing on location, I just play too much to have one at home though I think.

As you say we’re all different and we’re lucky enough that there’s a lot of different games to choose from.
 
Marcel said:
I hated TZ, sold it for £1,850 after about 20 games donkeys years ago and have forever wondered (assumed) that I'd made a mistake in not giving it a better chance, I'd like to try it again now.
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Same here.. Hate the game... Got rid of my old Wh2o to replace with TZ - worst move ever :(
 
Paul said:
Same here.. Hate the game... Got rid of my old Wh2o to replace with TZ - worst move ever :(
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Can anyone who likes TZ explain the appeal? If you like FT *AND* TZ, can you explain the appeal of TZ to a fan of FT?

I'm kinda worried I'm missing something because I've played it a bunch of times at PBR and it does nothing for me at all.
 
Whether pin history floats your boat or not, TZ is Pat Lawlor's follow up pin to TAF which was commercially the most successful pin of all time.

Wms gave Pat an open cheque book and told him to do whatever he wanted, so he did.

In rather stark contrast to TAF, it was one of those most commercial unviable pins ever made. Seriously expensive. They used every single lamp and solenoid output available on the WPC platform and crammed it so full of toys it's the most complex pinball machine ever made - and I think that probably still stands to this day.

It's the product of the heyday of pinball.

I recall hearing a recording of a talk at Expo ~98 (?) which was posted to r.g.p where Pat said how much money they sunk into it and how unhappy Wms was that it didn't perform like TAF. Someone shouted out "it was worth it" and I think the whole room cheered. He said such a complex machine would never ever be made again, and it wasn't.

It's a bit of history.
 
As for gameplay, it's really deep. Remember this is 1993... nothing like it had ever been seen before and it paved the way for mode-heavy pins and exciting Jackpots (you know, the kind that actually mean something rather than just handed out like sweeties on every shot).

The modes are all varied and there doesn't feel to be any repetitive or wood-chopping shots.

The lock shot is super long and has a very satisfying feel.

The risk/reward of re-locking or starting multiball early I really like. Yes, very simple by today's standards but it still feels like a shot to avoid which is combined with the fact the left ramp is the easiest shot on the game. It almost teases you.

Then you've got the buzz of multiball itself.

"Scott the dot" did an incredible job at the DMD animation and the pump of the synth-heavy sound track matches that.

(Thank god the DCS sound system was late. It very nearly got one but was it wasn't ready in time for release. This is the last of the good sounding 90s pins imo)

The jackpots are a challenging upper flipper shot, but easy enough to feel like you're killing it. The relight shot is pure Lawlor and also very satisfying.

Every shot has a metal-on-mental clunk.

The jackpot reward, when i first heard it, blew my mind. The machine literally explodes on you, crashing in with a series of repeating bangs followed by the most perfected combination of dots, sound and lightshow you've ever experienced.

That's what a ****ing Jackpot should feel like ladies and gents.

Then with the adrenaline pumping BOOM it fires your ball back and its time for re-lock and go around again.

It's just superb.
 
strobey said:
As for gameplay, it's really deep. Remember this is 1993... nothing like it had ever been seen before and it paved the way for mode-heavy pins and exciting Jackpots (you know, the kind that actually mean something rather than just handed out like sweeties on every shot).

The modes are all varied and there doesn't feel to be any repetitive or wood-chopping shots.

The lock shot is super long and has a very satisfying feel.

The risk/reward of re-locking or starting multiball early I really like. Yes, very simple by today's standards but it still feels like a shot to avoid which is combined with the fact the left ramp is the easiest shot on the game. It almost teases you.

Then you've got the buzz of multiball itself.

"Scott the dot" did an incredible job at the DMD animation and the pump of the synth-heavy sound track matches that.

(Thank god the DCS sound system was late. It very nearly got one but was it wasn't ready in time for release. This is the last of the good sounding 90s pins imo)

The jackpots are a challenging upper flipper shot, but easy enough to feel like you're killing it. The relight shot is pure Lawlor and also very satisfying.

Every shot has a metal-on-mental clunk.

The jackpot reward, when i first heard it, blew my mind. The machine literally explodes on you, crashing in with a series of repeating bangs followed by the most perfected combination of dots, sound and lightshow you've ever experienced.

That's what a ****ing Jackpot should feel like ladies and gents.

Then with the adrenaline pumping BOOM it fires your ball back and its time for re-lock and go around again.

It's just superb.
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Wow! Thanks for the review. Sorry, @Jib that it's wandered off topic, but it's fascinating to see how people's tastes vary.

Reading your excellent review, I realise I've probably played TZ enough now to form an opinion and, sadly, having played 100+ pins since I got into the hobby last year, and watched a TZ tutorial video, I evidently simply just can't recapture the magic of playing it fresh in 1993 :oops:

When I play TZ (and the one in PBR is quite nice), I end up comparing the light show unfavourably to JJP Gn'R, the code complexity unfavourably to A:IQ, the theme unfavourably to Marvel/Star Wars, the shots unfavourably to JP2, and the toys to MM/AFM/ST/WoZ/The Shadow, etc (all of which came later). It's something you have to have memories of, maybe.
 
strobey said:
As for gameplay, it's really deep. Remember this is 1993... nothing like it had ever been seen before and it paved the way for mode-heavy pins and exciting Jackpots (you know, the kind that actually mean something rather than just handed out like sweeties on every shot).

The modes are all varied and there doesn't feel to be any repetitive or wood-chopping shots.

The lock shot is super long and has a very satisfying feel.

The risk/reward of re-locking or starting multiball early I really like. Yes, very simple by today's standards but it still feels like a shot to avoid which is combined with the fact the left ramp is the easiest shot on the game. It almost teases you.

Then you've got the buzz of multiball itself.

"Scott the dot" did an incredible job at the DMD animation and the pump of the synth-heavy sound track matches that.

(Thank god the DCS sound system was late. It very nearly got one but was it wasn't ready in time for release. This is the last of the good sounding 90s pins imo)

The jackpots are a challenging upper flipper shot, but easy enough to feel like you're killing it. The relight shot is pure Lawlor and also very satisfying.

Every shot has a metal-on-mental clunk.

The jackpot reward, when i first heard it, blew my mind. The machine literally explodes on you, crashing in with a series of repeating bangs followed by the most perfected combination of dots, sound and lightshow you've ever experienced.

That's what a ****ing Jackpot should feel like ladies and gents.

Then with the adrenaline pumping BOOM it fires your ball back and its time for re-lock and go around again.

It's just superb.
Click to expand...
Alright, you've sold me on it. How much do you want for it?? ;)
 
Can someone with a Deadpool do me a favour and look and tell me when your flippers are lined up middle to dot, are they in line with the lane guides or lower? Please and thank you!
 
strobey said:
As for gameplay, it's really deep. Remember this is 1993... nothing like it had ever been seen before and it paved the way for mode-heavy pins and exciting Jackpots (you know, the kind that actually mean something rather than just handed out like sweeties on every shot).

The modes are all varied and there doesn't feel to be any repetitive or wood-chopping shots.

The lock shot is super long and has a very satisfying feel.

The risk/reward of re-locking or starting multiball early I really like. Yes, very simple by today's standards but it still feels like a shot to avoid which is combined with the fact the left ramp is the easiest shot on the game. It almost teases you.

Then you've got the buzz of multiball itself.

"Scott the dot" did an incredible job at the DMD animation and the pump of the synth-heavy sound track matches that.

(Thank god the DCS sound system was late. It very nearly got one but was it wasn't ready in time for release. This is the last of the good sounding 90s pins imo)

The jackpots are a challenging upper flipper shot, but easy enough to feel like you're killing it. The relight shot is pure Lawlor and also very satisfying.

Every shot has a metal-on-mental clunk.

The jackpot reward, when i first heard it, blew my mind. The machine literally explodes on you, crashing in with a series of repeating bangs followed by the most perfected combination of dots, sound and lightshow you've ever experienced.

That's what a ****ing Jackpot should feel like ladies and gents.

Then with the adrenaline pumping BOOM it fires your ball back and its time for re-lock and go around again.

It's just superb.
Click to expand...
100% I agree with everything you said!

TZ was the first pin I ever played a few years ago and got me hooked in this hobby, every time I see one I have to play it.
I now own 6 Machines myself and have made several new friends all mainly down to TZ brilliant Pinball machine and one of the best ever made! Imo
 
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