Hertz Dumping Electric Cars, Buying Petrol - Daily Telegraph

[DRD]

Hertz sells off 20,000 electric cars as drivers stick with petrol​

Rental giant expects to take £190m hit after blaming weak demand and high repair costs

James Titcomb11 January 2024 • 6:03pm

US rental giant Hertz is selling off thousands of Teslas as weak demand forces it to replace 20,000 electric cars with petrol-powered vehicles.
Hertz said it would sell the vehicles over the next year and expected to take a $245m (£193m) hit as it reversed plans to massively expand its electric car fleet.
The company is selling off a range of makes and models but is expected to offload thousands of Teslas. More than 600 are already listed for sale on its used car website.
Three years ago, Hertz announced plans to buy 100,000 Tesla electric cars, a move that pushed Tesla’s market value beyond $1 trillion.
However, Hertz said renting out electric cars had proved to be less profitable than traditional vehicles and the cars had also come with higher repair costs.
Drivers also still want petrol or diesel-powered cars. Hertz said it would “reinvest a portion of the proceeds from the sale of EVs into the purchase of internal combustion engine vehicles to meet customer demand”.
The sell-off, which applies only in the US but amounts to around a third of the company’s global electric vehicle fleet, comes after years of Hertz positioning itself as a “first mover” in electric car rentals.
As well as agreeing to buy 100,000 Teslas, it committed to buying 65,000 vehicles from Polestar, Volvo’s electric subsidiary, and last year it said a quarter of its fleet would be electric by the end of 2024.

Hertz also committed to buying 65,000 vehicles from Volvo’s electric subsidiary Polestar
However, deliveries to date have been well below those headline numbers.
The company said the decision to sell off thousands of cars was being taken “to better balance supply against expected demand of EVs” and that “this will position the company to eliminate a disproportionate number of lower margin rentals and reduce damage expenses associated with EVs”.
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Hertz said investing in petrol-powered cars would improve profitability. It added that it hoped to make electric car rentals more profitable in future by expanding charging stations and improving access to repairs.
Motorists have complained about experiences when renting electric cars as a result of the myriad of different charging networks, the fact that the cars are often unsuitable for long road trips, or in some cases because drivers receive vehicles without fully-charged batteries.
Hertz chief executive Stephen Scherr said last year that the plummeting value of used electric cars also made them less profitable.

Data from CarGurus compiled by HSBC this week showed that the values of the top 10 used electric cars had fallen by 28pc in the US last year, and 20pc in the UK.
Rental car companies are heavily affected by falling used prices because they regularly recycle their fleets, buying cars new and selling them within two years.
Hertz, which sells used cars directly on its website, was selling Tesla Model 3 vehicles for as low as $17,700 this week, less than half the $38,990 price of a new model. The vast majority of electric cars currently listed for sale are Teslas although it said the sale of 20,000 cars would “cover multiple makes and models”.
Hertz shares fell by almost 5pc in trading on Wall Street.
The company has an ongoing tie-up with Uber that allows drivers to rent electric cars from Hertz, but has said taxi drivers’ driving habits mean the cars are more likely to be damaged.
It has cut down on the supply of cars to Uber drivers but says this has led to an over-supply of electric cars available to rent to ordinary drivers.
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Demand for electric cars in the UK flatlined last year, according to figures from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders. They accounted for 16.5pc of all new car sales last year, slightly down on the 16.6pc in 2022.
It has led to calls from industry for VAT on the cars to be cut to stimulate demand.

 

[Arv]

Imagine my surprise.

 

[Dex-Jay]

Nothing to see here.... move along, move along.



Electricity is for pinballs, not setting fire to vehicles and multistorey carparks.

 

[Paul]

EV's just dont work in the US, where people routinely just jump in their 6.2L trucks and think nothing of hauling 600miles plus...
Until EV's get a decent range, and the infrastructure is actually peoperly in place, there is no chance.

 

[johnwhitfield]

The bus thing is pretty much bull**** though. We had one explode 200m from our house last year. Pretty spectacular but regular diesel engine.

 

[johnwhitfield]

Here we go..

 

[crsedgar]

The bus thing is pretty much bull**** though. We had one explode 200m from our house last year. Pretty spectacular but regular diesel engine.

I passed a burning bus (internal combustion engine) opposite side of carriageway end of last year it didn't even make the news. You can bet you had it been electric it would have been a top story.

 

[VeeMonroe]

I passed a burning bus (internal combustion engine) opposite side of carriageway end of last year it didn't even make the news. You can bet you had it been electric it would have been a top story.

I’ll leave this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_the_Shark

Although it might be better placed on the Jaws thread

 

[AlanJ]

Hertz dumping due to the high repair costs on pranged cars - they say it's twice as much compared to an ICE. Interesting fact!

 

[Tucks]

I predicted this a long time ago. There are no advantages of EVs. America has stopped producing them and hundreds of thousands of new EVs sit unwanted.

It was never about the planet (because they're worse for the planet than ICE cars) and all about global money and the people that control it. It does make me laugh when I see someone waiting for a charger when I'm in and out of a petrol station in 3 minutes.

The dominoes are falling and about time too.

 

[Arv]

When ever the government advises you to do something you always do the opposite. They aren't there to help you and the sooner you realize this the better.

 

[Monkeyboypaul]

When ever the government advises you to do something you always do the opposite. They aren't there to help you and the sooner you realize this the better.

no one told me to buy an electric car, it just works far better for me. **** the Government.

Hertz sells off 20,000 electric cars as drivers stick with petrol​

Rental giant expects to take £190m hit after blaming weak demand and high repair costs

James Titcomb11 January 2024 • 6:03pm

You have to love Mr *** Comb (that's his actual name).

I'll raise you:

Revealed: Scale of The Telegraph's Climate Change ‘Propaganda’

Telegraph columnists routinely questioned climate science and criticised green reforms as a major backlash against net zero policies raged in the UK, DeSmog can reveal. A new analysis by this website reviewed over 2,000 Telegraph opinion pieces and editorials published online over a six month...

www.desmog.com

 

[Tucks]

And it's funny how none of them drive EVs.

Sad Khan't has 3 Ranger Rovers, one armoured plated at a cost of £300k. Rishi has Jag motorcade. Gaslit all day long.

 

[Tucks]

I'll raise you:

OK. go onto YouTube and type "EVs don't work' and no, it's not all propanganda.

This guy does loads on how bad EVs are:

Check out his channel. Real world experience.

 

[Arv]

 

[Alpha1]

Here we go..View attachment 241916

This must be fake CGI because the gammons told me only electric cars catch fire.

 

[Calimori]

All of us can post articles which support our view but they still need the biases to be reviewed and understood for us to learn from them.
New technology has always been criticised and some folks have an agenda to convince others that new isn't a good idea. Whilst the media has a job to make money out of us being interested in their stories, so they feed the bias.
For the record, I do not have an EV. I do enjoy my IC cars and motorcycles, my digger, my chainsaw, and many other things I have which are IC's. But the arguments against EV's having a valid place feels like an extreme bias that is fueling misinformation and I don't understand why folks argue wholy against EV's being good for many purposes.

Here is a quick list of the arguments I have seen against EV's that are put in the press and shared at the moment, and what I have seen as a balance to them.

1. Range anxiety: When Bertha Benz stole the prototype of the first true road car and drove it to her parents house, she had range anxiety because there were no petrol stations. Humanity got over that and those who don't need to do long distances can happily have an EV and that is fine for almost everything they need to do.
2. Vehicle fires: Happen all the time but the reporting of them for EV's is disproportional. There are the rumours that the fire brigade won't put them out, or can't. Petrol and diesel cars catch fire all the time, fire brigades learn to put new fires out. Vehicle manufacturers learn and get regulated to control fires better. But the stories focus on the EV ones because they are novel.
3. Higher costs: Maybe to repair on some bits but it balances out as there are less serviceable costs as no IC which has metal on metal and heat and needs oil and liquids changing. Costs to repair come down as more feel comfortable working with them. Let's come back to batteries later.
4. Vehicle depreciation: Usually argued that expensive components need replacing after 10-15 years. Yep, that is like a lot of new vehicles, but batteries will be replaceable and that industry is ramping up. Technology is changing rapidly and so is recycling of the materials from the olds one.s
5. They are not as environmentally friendly as they claim: Usually about the methods to get the raw materials such as lithium and the costs to replace them. Again, this is a changing market and now recycling of the batteries to get the previous metals back are growing and far outweigh IC. And few figures show that environmental cost of moving oil and refining it, which you then have to burn in an IC.
6. They pollute nearly as much: Usually some arguemnet that EV's weigh more and brake dust is a big issue. Regeneration in an EV's mean many use less brakes so give off less polutants, and service costs.
7. Heavier weight so roads will be destroyed quicker, potholes etc: EV's have driven weight reduction as they are more efficent in a light vehicle, but some are heavy that is often about the body shape as much as the batteries. SUV's are large vehicles and most of the largest vehicles in this category are IC, but the focus was on EV causing more road wear.
8. The technology is redundant and better tech will come: Sure, but that doesn't mean everyone has to stick with a technology that is 140 years old. IC are not efficient enough, we need to try other things.

 

[Fantazia2]

And lets not forget EVs were about before Petrol cars, and were seen at the time as the better option as you could charge in more places than there were petrol stations until more petrol stations popped up making petrol cars the better option.

Just imagine the papers back in the day, nice safe clean electrics cars looking to be replaced by mobile bombs with tanks full of highly flammable fluid.

 

[Pooman2084]

This thread could be a study in confirmation bias.

It’s a shame the culture wars encompass promoting the distruction of the planet but here we are.

Sadly once you go down the conspiracy rabbit hole when presented with strong counter evidence, cognitive dissonance kicks in and people become even more entrenched.

Our generation has fecked it, the only thing we can do is teach our kids critical thinking skills and hope for the best.

 

[mission65]

cognitive dissonance

What is this?

 

[Pooman2084]

Broadly it’s the discomfort of confronting evidence that counters a strongly held belief, or of trying to hold several conflicting beliefs.

This discomfort causes stress and the tendency to rearrange the evidence to fit in with the longer held belief.

We all experience it regularly, unfortunately we find lots of ways to justify hanging on to pre-existing ideas.

One example is Brexit. How we voted tends to dictate how we see the results. I might say inflation has been made worse by Brexit, whereas my Dad will say that would have happened anyway. The truth is somewhere more nuanced and somewhere between those two views. We both get cross when discussing it as he can’t confront that he might have some responsibility for the current state of affairs and it is easier for me to simplify things and to blame it on others actions.

 

[C&C]

Nothing to see here.... move along, move along.

View attachment 241910 View attachment 241911

Electricity is for pinballs, not setting fire to vehicles and multistorey carparks.

Not sure how many multi-storey car parks have been destroyed by electric cars catching fire (I'm not aware of any), but the one at Luton airport which destroyed 1400 cars was initially reported to be due to an electric car (usual hysterical press speculation), but was later found to be due to an electrical fault in a diesel Range Rover.

Just to be clear, I'm not particularly a fan of electric cars, not because I don't like the concept, but more that they are not the solution that they are made out to be and are nowhere near as "environmentally friendly" as advertised, once you take into account the environmental impact of producing the batteries, generating the electricity etc.. Also long-term costs don't look good given the high initial price and heavy depreciation due to high repair costs, insurance costs, and the inevitable need to replace the battery a few years down the line (£10-£15k seems to be mentioned as a ballpark for Teslas). I'm sure these costs will come down over time due to improved recycling of the batteries, and wider competition forcing overly-inflated prices down.

I'm going off-topic here a bit (although still talking about electric cars), but I'm also not a big fan of pumping cash into the Chinese economy, and try to buy stuff made elsewhere whenever possible. China is not only the current largest EV battery manufacturer by quite some margin (well over 50% of global supply), but also increasingly becoming a major producer of electric vehicles - BYD produced more battery only cars than Tesla last year, and other Chinese suppliers like Nio, Wuling, Zeekr, Xpeng are all increasing production and market share. I'm assuming that people are also generally aware that MG Motors, the previously well-know British car company is now a Chinese company since Nanjing bought the MG name in 2005, and subsequently were bought out by SAIC (one of the largest BEV car producers in the world).

There's a certain irony in the global environmental crisis and the push for "cleaner" electric vehicles, the supply of which is increasingly being dominated by China, who also happen to be the largest industrialised nation on the planet who show scant regard for actual environmental impact, and little/no regard for the human rights of many of their inhabitants. Also to power these "clean" EVs in their own domestic market, they are busy building new coal fired power stations, completely ignoring anti-pollution agreements. Last year globally, 95% of new coal powered electricity generation capacity was being built in China.

Still, if you drive an EV, at least you won't get hit for the ULEZ charge of £12.50 to visit PBR in Croydon or Orpington in the future, or £8 to visit Tilt in Birmingham.

 

[Fantazia2]

For people with concerns about longevity of EVs.

https://insideevs.com/news/699413/highest-mileage-tesla-model-s-3-batteries-14-motors/#:~:text=It's%20the%20highest%2Dmileage%20Tesla%20in%20existence.&text=It's%20hard%20to%20believe%20that,approximately%20131%2C000%20miles%20per%20year.

Over 1.2 million miles, yes it has had 13 motors, the article explains that the replacement is due to a known fault that Tesla cant pinpoint to fix so the motors are all refurbs with the same issue but still cover and avergae of 100,000miles per motor, and 4 battery packs averaging about 300,000miles each.

 

[Tucks]

Here is a quick list of the arguments I have seen against EV's

The two main points I think you've missed out are:

1) Insurance. I work in the industry and some Tesla renewal quotes have gone from £1k to £9k in a single year. Cars are being written off for minor damage due to the potential battery replacement cost and potential fire liability.
2) Unless you're driving to the shops and back and only charge from home, you could be stuck in a 'Petrol' station for 4 hours plus. 4th in a queue to charge and 45 minutes to charge is no fun. Many charging points are broken (hence the queuing) and the latest craze is people stripping the charging cables for the copper which leaves less charging points. Life is just to damn short to sit in a service station for hours on end.

Saw recently that someone got quoted more for a replacement battery than a new car. How the hell does that work?

All your other points are valid. I know EV drivers, neighbour has a Tesla. If you want one I would strongly recommend leasing only.

 

[Alpha1]

I was contemplating buying a second hand BMW i3 and had a quote for a 4kw solar system to effectively get free charging, and then spent all the money on ****ing pinballs.

Maybe next year!

 

[Fantazia2]

Saw recently that someone got quoted more for a replacement battery than a new car. How the hell does that work?

I doubt that is true, more likely the quoted price for the battery was more than buying the same age/condition car with a working battery, saw videos of this last year or year before, being quote something like £17k USD for a battery when the car was only worth £17k USD, but was a used car and not a new one.

 

[Paul]

I was contemplating buying a second hand BMW i3 and had a quote for a 4kw solar system to effectively get free charging, and then spent all the money on ****ing pinballs.

Maybe next year!

Probably a lot cheaper to be fair sticking to pins, even with Stern inflatable prices!

 

[Paul]

being quote something like £17k USD for a battery when the car was only worth £17k USD

So - with Companies charging effectively £55 for a "fill" that would get you under 300 miles whilst on the road, £17k for a replacement battery and generally higher maintenance costs - Failing to see where the carrot is to move over unless you do under 200 miles a month??
Yes i get the fossil fuels/enviroment bit etc, but your average family will vote where their £££ goes.
I guess thats why the government put a line in the sand (which recently got moved as they no doubt realise that people werent feeling it... Bet that happens again!)...

 

[Alpha1]

Probably a lot cheaper to be fair sticking to pins, even with Stern inflatable prices!

I probably put £300 of diesel in the car each month. Would be nice to have not that monthly outgoing cost. I'll revisit the idea again when finances allow.

 

[Fantazia2]

So - with Companies charging effectively £55 for a "fill" that would get you under 300 miles whilst on the road, £17k for a replacement battery and generally higher maintenance costs - Failing to see where the carrot is to move over unless you do under 200 miles a month??
Yes i get the fossil fuels/enviroment bit etc, but your average family will vote where their £££ goes.
I guess thats why the government put a line in the sand (which recently got moved as they no doubt realise that people werent feeling it... Bet that happens again!)...

That was on a Tesla.

The best option I think is going Hybrid, which I think they are still allowed to sell after the ban comes in, or at least I remember reading it that way.

Hybrid gives best of both, small battery so can be charged at home on overnight cheap electric and then clean for driving round towns and cities, then backed up by a petrol engine for the longer journeys, best of both worlds, and no need to rely on a not ready yet infrastructure of overpriced DC fast chargers.