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In Progress Gottlieb "Road Race" (1969)
- Thread starter MajesticPinball
- Start date
OP
OP
So the workshop is rammed at the moment, I'm only supposed to have 4 machines in there at a time but there's currently 7 so it's all getting very cramped, even more reason to get our little roadrace finished.
Some more cosmetics done this week, I managed to find the legs I had bought a few years back, they were being borrowed by my very naughty leg-theif Zaccaria Spooky! None the less we now have the correct legs with new bolts and casters. Additionally I discovered a site called Johns Jukes (Flippers.com) who had a stock of Gottlieb EM coin entry faceplates so I ordered two of those, a blanking one and an open slot one incase a future owner wants it on coin-op. They arrived insanely quickly so a huge recommendation of Johns Jukes - I'll certainly use them again in the future!
Next up were the ball in play lights in the apron, these were all mounted to a common ground bar and absolutely knackered so decided to replace with 6 individual lamp sockets - it's always good to know what ball you're on! I've misplaced the all important light shield for this which displays the actual number and I need to reproduce the instruction card which mounts over the top of the light shield.
So I've been playing this a lot recently just to get a good amount of test games in so absolutely everything is ironed out by the time to comes to sell this and the current issues:
1) Score reels occasionally don't reset at the start of a new game. This is happening perhaps 1/6 games, when this happens it makes no attempt at resetting the reels it just adds points to the previous games score (haven't had any attempt to look into this yet, so will keep posted)
2) Upon starting a new game occasionally the machine scores 50 points straight away, no switches are stuck on the play field so I'm suspecting the scanning relay (Again I haven't looked I to this yet so will keep posted!)
3) Slight flickers from unlit bumpers. This is possibly just because I put LEDs in the bumpers to protect the new caps and bodies from lamp burns. I've adjusted both the Yellow and Green jet relays already, perhaps the contacts for the lights just needs a little more of a gap. Not the end of the world and it's barely noticeable but I'll get to the bottom of it anyway.
All of the above I'm sure are very simple faults, it's just finding the time to get to the bottom of them all but I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel on this project and I can't wait to get it finished up and find a new home for this little one.
Some more cosmetics done this week, I managed to find the legs I had bought a few years back, they were being borrowed by my very naughty leg-theif Zaccaria Spooky! None the less we now have the correct legs with new bolts and casters. Additionally I discovered a site called Johns Jukes (Flippers.com) who had a stock of Gottlieb EM coin entry faceplates so I ordered two of those, a blanking one and an open slot one incase a future owner wants it on coin-op. They arrived insanely quickly so a huge recommendation of Johns Jukes - I'll certainly use them again in the future!
Next up were the ball in play lights in the apron, these were all mounted to a common ground bar and absolutely knackered so decided to replace with 6 individual lamp sockets - it's always good to know what ball you're on! I've misplaced the all important light shield for this which displays the actual number and I need to reproduce the instruction card which mounts over the top of the light shield.
So I've been playing this a lot recently just to get a good amount of test games in so absolutely everything is ironed out by the time to comes to sell this and the current issues:
1) Score reels occasionally don't reset at the start of a new game. This is happening perhaps 1/6 games, when this happens it makes no attempt at resetting the reels it just adds points to the previous games score (haven't had any attempt to look into this yet, so will keep posted)
2) Upon starting a new game occasionally the machine scores 50 points straight away, no switches are stuck on the play field so I'm suspecting the scanning relay (Again I haven't looked I to this yet so will keep posted!)
3) Slight flickers from unlit bumpers. This is possibly just because I put LEDs in the bumpers to protect the new caps and bodies from lamp burns. I've adjusted both the Yellow and Green jet relays already, perhaps the contacts for the lights just needs a little more of a gap. Not the end of the world and it's barely noticeable but I'll get to the bottom of it anyway.
All of the above I'm sure are very simple faults, it's just finding the time to get to the bottom of them all but I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel on this project and I can't wait to get it finished up and find a new home for this little one.
OP
OP
So she's back in the shop yet again for another attempt. Last issue still present is it will award 50 points on startup maybe 4/5 games. I've spent 12 hours on this machine over the last 2 days the bulk of which trying to sort this last issue out and to say I'm ripping my hair out is an understatement. Will be taking some nice pictures of it soon and probably posting it for sale as a 98% done project as I just can't warrant anymore of my life on this thing!! 
Thump the playfield and see if the vibration activates the 50 point switch. Failing that place a piece of card between each switch on the playfield. Confirm no 50 points then remove one piece card and start a game, repeat until the switch scoring 50 points is found.
OP
OP
Trust me, I've gone through everything like that. The issue is within the nightmarish scanning/tracking control circuit.
OP
OP
I've spent 6+ hours on the scanning/tracking control circuit alone, even going as far to wire it myself from scratch to try and help find the issue, so far no luckYou could have mentioned that you save me typing it all out...!
I think you can do something similar with the scanning/tracking control circuit which would help narrow it down...
I'll write a detailed report on the issue and what's done when I can stomach to look at the machine again
Have you tried disconnecting the playfield and then firing it up to be 100% certain its playfield related? If you have a schematic for it, then check if the 50 point relay has a motor switch in case its gapped too tight and sending errant pulses during start up that is then firing the 50 point relay.
OP
OP
I know everyone is just trying to help but trust me I have tried absolutely everything obvious. On the schematics it's a rather simple looking circuit, there's a short somewhere in the machine causing the scanning relay to activate.
I was planning on doing a detailed writeup of the issue but I'll do a brief-ish one as not to bore people.
You have the tracking control relay which is always on as long as the pointer and the BS unit/relay are both on the same number. The BS unit is like a very small stepper unit which has a wiper blade that pulses round and finds the number the pointer is aiming at. When the pointer moves, the tracking control relay turns off, closing a switch and enabling the scanning relay to switch on pulsing the BS relay and awarding points via a score motor switch (not the 50 point relay) until the BS and pointer units are both realigned. It works this way because of Gottliebs ingenious "mystery score" where moving the pointer to any position can award either 50, 100 or 150 points depending on how much the score motor turns in order to realign the BS and pointer units.
What's happening is when a game starts the tracking control relay energises (as it should) and opens a switch to the scanning relay (which should kill the circuit and not allow that relay to fire) but instead it energises for 5 pulses of the score motor awarding 10 points each pulse. So the 50 point relay has nothing to do with this.
The only way the scanning relay should initially activate is via that switch on the tracking control relay being closed (via a couple of score motor switches which are also N/C)
I've removed all wiring in the entire circuit and connected it up again 1 by one while looking for the short, I've also rewired the whole thing from scratch with new wiring just as a test and there is a short present on the tracking control relay contacts at all times, I've isolated each individual switch stack and there are no shorts there. So with each switch in the circuit isolated, and new (temporary) wiring completely separated from the rest of the machine there is still a short somewhere.
It's back in storage now as my workshop is so busy I just don't have the time or mental capacity to deal with it at the moment
Will probably dig it out in a years time again and give it another chance
I was planning on doing a detailed writeup of the issue but I'll do a brief-ish one as not to bore people.
You have the tracking control relay which is always on as long as the pointer and the BS unit/relay are both on the same number. The BS unit is like a very small stepper unit which has a wiper blade that pulses round and finds the number the pointer is aiming at. When the pointer moves, the tracking control relay turns off, closing a switch and enabling the scanning relay to switch on pulsing the BS relay and awarding points via a score motor switch (not the 50 point relay) until the BS and pointer units are both realigned. It works this way because of Gottliebs ingenious "mystery score" where moving the pointer to any position can award either 50, 100 or 150 points depending on how much the score motor turns in order to realign the BS and pointer units.
What's happening is when a game starts the tracking control relay energises (as it should) and opens a switch to the scanning relay (which should kill the circuit and not allow that relay to fire) but instead it energises for 5 pulses of the score motor awarding 10 points each pulse. So the 50 point relay has nothing to do with this.
The only way the scanning relay should initially activate is via that switch on the tracking control relay being closed (via a couple of score motor switches which are also N/C)
I've removed all wiring in the entire circuit and connected it up again 1 by one while looking for the short, I've also rewired the whole thing from scratch with new wiring just as a test and there is a short present on the tracking control relay contacts at all times, I've isolated each individual switch stack and there are no shorts there. So with each switch in the circuit isolated, and new (temporary) wiring completely separated from the rest of the machine there is still a short somewhere.
It's back in storage now as my workshop is so busy I just don't have the time or mental capacity to deal with it at the moment
Will probably dig it out in a years time again and give it another chance
OP
OP
Me too, was hoping it to be that but isolating all the associated switches didn't solve it. Hopefully fresh eyes when I next get a chance to set it up will help