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I think JT has expressed the same sentiment I hold. I don't like the idea of censorship on an adult forum but what is fine for one person is not for others. The more people we have on the forum, the more opinions are expressed and a lot of "for sale" threads turned into chaos where people appeared to forget this was a persons attempt to sell something.
I never minded the simple statements of "you might find that your price is a little high" but then found it uncomfortable when it degenerated into a lot of people criticising the machine. If one person could do it in a manner that wasn't rude then it would be fine but it started to look like an attack. The result was we would lose the seller to eBay and then all suffer the inflated eBay prices.

This thread has changing content, some days it brings our attention to something we might be interested in, other day about shill bidding and sometimes about how a prices is unrealistic. If people don't like that sort of content, they can avoid it. We have the odd argument about wear and tear but it doesn't clutter someones attempt to sell a machine as much.

As for the "If you cant stand the heat, stay out of the pinball lair." comment. Are we attempting to be mates sharing an interest or some crack Pinball SAS Unit? This is not war fare it is a game to enjoy, all sorts of dispositions, conditions and ailments result in people liking pinball and ending up on this site. The moment people start saying someone is not tough enough to hit their balls with a flipper on this site is when another group/forum will stop working and a new one will have to be created.
 
Calimori said:
As for the "If you cant stand the heat, stay out of the pinball lair." comment. Are we attempting to be mates sharing an interest or some crack Pinball SAS Unit? This is not war fare it is a game to enjoy, all sorts of dispositions, conditions and ailments result in people liking pinball and ending up on this site. The moment people start saying someone is not tough enough to hit their balls with a flipper on this site is when another group/forum will stop working and a new one will have to be created.
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Pinball info is no different to any other club/forum/group. The community stems from discussion on a mutual interest, however inside that interest there will be a multitude of views. At the point of extremity, these views may need to be moderated.

Moderation defines the future credibility and popularity of that group.

In terms of 'for sale threads'. These are, by definition, discussion threads. How can it ever be wrong to discuss inside a discussion?
 
JT. said:
I'd argue that enlightenment or influence are not two criteria of posting. There are many people in the forum community who do post in this thread, and there are many not interested in price/condition discussions who value the fact it is kept separate, so I'd argue that there is in fact a lot of point to it.

Regarding influencing noobs, what you say might be correct about them being influenced by a negative/mocking post in this thread, but that scenario would surely be the exception rather than the rule - and therefore not a great argument in favour of moderating out these sorts of comments. Besides which, the most common advice I see for noobs on here is to avoid ebay - there have been posts to this effect in the last month or so - so if this thread truly does put them off (which if I'm honest I do not really believ at all), that would be in line with the advice they were getting elsewhere in the forum. Also, if the seller was on this forum, and if they cared about the comments in this thread, they would surely mention it - but I don't remember that happening, ever - and I have also been a member of the forum since day 1 :)
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Not everyone is vocal but I have on occasion read comments from sellers who pop up to defend their sale, my post did not mention moderating on here but simply stated that not moderating "ebay" comments but then going on to discourage forum sale comments seems unjust, if you still can't see that then there is nothing more I can say except keep up the good work ;)
 
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abaxas said:
Pinball info is no different to any other club/forum/group. The community stems from discussion on a mutual interest, however inside that interest there will be a multitude of views. At the point of extremity, these views may need to be moderated.

Moderation defines the future credibility and popularity of that group.
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Moderators (in general and certainly on here) don't want to be spending their time moderating, they want people to be civil to each other as they would expect as a group of mates or down the pub. I often consider the "down the pub" standard when considering if the post I am about to submit is suitable or when when thinking if something posted is over the acceptable line. The standard is "would that comment get me kicked/knifed "down the pub"" and that all depends on the pub as it depends on the club/forum/group because no two pubs/groups are the same.
That is probably the most important point in all of this debate, what sort of group do we want because that defines the rules or etiquette not the moderation or administration.

abaxas said:
In terms of 'for sale threads'. These are, by definition, discussion threads. How can it ever be wrong to discuss inside a discussion?
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What needs to be changed in the forum software to make them be more recognisable as "for sale adverts"? Not that I want to commit Paul or any mod/admin on this site to do more work than required but maybe this is the problem. People are expressing that they don't see them as discussions like everything else, they are someone's for sale advert.
 
Crikey you guys. This is all getting a bit serious isn't it. Let's not forget what this place is. It's a hangout for people that share a hobby. And it does a great job of it too.

It's all getting a bit political. You can't please all of the people all of the time. Best just to leave it as it is. People will soon air their grievances if somebody annoys them. 5 minutes later it's all forgotten about and we are all chums again. I shall now demonstrate the sequence of events using only the power of smileys:

:eek:
:(
:mad:
:confused:
:oops:
:D

And so it continues.
 
And all this discussion is why I bloody love this place :D

As has been mentioned before - People have different views and different attitudes towards things. Which is what makes us all different. Which is why we all like/dislike different things, and machines.

I LOVE the style of moderating on here. There has NEVER been an occasion where we have disagreed, and if there's something potentially big in the offing, we all have a quick chat about it. There's no moderating rules - never have been and as far as I see never will be - I'm REALLY lucky in the guys that watch over everything here - It's nice and relaxed and chilled - we all use "common sense" and so far it's worked perfectly - and I see no reason for this not to continue.

With regards to Sellers threads here, the way I personally view it is this.
In this thread we all have a pop and a moan/groan about those that post on eBay - I mean, they make loads of money from it so I don't see why it shouldn't be a target for a bit of a giggle ;)
The thing is, if sellers want to advertise things here, then that's great, however Offer a Wh2o for £10k and expect to be slated off the planet (even a mint one!). Likewise, sell something as "mint" and we can see from the pics that it's not, then expect to be slated accordingly. However, WHATEVER you bought it for (Does it matter??) - its only worth what someone will pay for it, and offer over the odds and it wont sell - simple. It's self regulating :)

Let me take a real example. So, @chris b has started buying and selling a few machines, as he has admitted. No problems there at all. They are all higher end machines, so cost more. And you know what - Good luck to him - If he can get them that cheaply and still sell them at a reasonable price that both him and the buyer agree on then no problems. If the demand at the price is there then he shouldn't have any problems selling, and making a couple of quid in the process covers his costs.

What I personally DO have an issue with is unsuspecting people getting ripped off - alongside newcomers to the hobby. We were all new once, and whilst some managed to avoid the sharks, some didn't, and I wont subscribe to people selling a common EM for £2k (for example).
 
As a newb my self, pricing of these things is something I have no idea about so its good to be able to read what people think about eBay listings. It starts to give me an idea of values.

I have noticed though that peoples opinions vary wildly. Ive spoken to a few about me wanting a star wars pin and have had people value them anywhere between £700 and £1500.

Id like to think though that if I was really unsure about something I could just ask one of the mods.
But how about doing a bit of a pin value list
 
I have noticed though that peoples opinions vary wildly. Ive spoken to a few about me wanting a star wars pin and have had people value them anywhere between £700 and £1500.
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People tend to buy on condition/completeness, hence the huge price differences.
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Condition is everything when it comes to determining price and the most important thing to learn about in the pinball hobby IMO is how to judge the condition of a game and how that fits with what your view of what constitutes good or bad. Unfortunately having the knowledge to know what to look for and what is good vs bad comes with experience and viewing a lot of games so the other key thing to take into account (especially when your new to the hobby) is your gut feeling :) The key question to ask yourself is "If I walk away with this pin having handed over some cash am I really happy"? If you get any sort of nagging doubt when looking at a game or something doesn't feel right then walk away. Worst thing you can do is hand over a large amount of cash, get the game home and have regret.

The other thing to keep in mind when buying your first pinball machine is "Do I love it?" Remember that it's going to be your only pinball machine and you will want to play it to death, so make sure you love it otherwise you you could find yourself getting bored quickly. All of this is my opinion of course and your mileage may vary :D
 
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Chris is absolutely right. Before you do ANYTHING. Go out to the shed and ask your sled :rofl:
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I'll have you know my sled is very wise and helps me with many of life's questions :D

Thanks Gaz, edited my shocking spelling :oops:
 
Yup, value is subjective and can fluctuate with factors that may not be obvious, examples being a machine that is having a rapid price correction, that can throw a curve ball on pricing (STTNG is a good recent example) seller reputation, geography, pins north of the border often go for less than the same machine down south or located on the main drag, these factors alone can shift value and have nothing to do with condition.

Accurate pricing is at best a guide but a guide is better than flying blind.
 
Judge Dreads said:
Yup, value is subjective and can fluctuate with factors that may not be obvious, examples being a machine that is having a rapid price correction, that can throw a curve ball on pricing (STTNG is a good recent example) seller reputation, geography, pins north of the border often go for less than the same machine down south or located on the main drag, these factors alone can shift value and have nothing to do with condition.

Accurate pricing is at best a guide but a guide is better than flying blind.
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All of those plus sometimes rarity and if on ebay then you can get 2 bidders both really want it so it sky rockets and of course good old shill bidding.

One of the worst things ebay have ever done is hiding bidders full identity :mad:
 
me too...what a dick:

DOT MATRIX HAS 5 LINES MISSING ON THE RIGHT AND 2 ON THE BOTTOM(DOESN'T AFFECT GAMEPLAY)
 
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