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Complete Data east 'Hook'

There are many reasons for weak flippers, and probably a combination of multiple small problems. Once electrics are ok, then you have mechanical wear and slackness in the linkages, wear on the end of the plunger mushrooming it over causing drag in the coil sleeve, insufficient clearance between the pawl and playfield bushing, broken playfield bushing, worn or broken coil sleeve allowing plunger to rub on mounting bracket, incorrect return spring, excess clearance to pf bushing causing plunger misalignment, over tightening of pivot point nut and bolt, ............................
 
Thanks again guys.

My post really was just a joke based on the lollypop stick.
Im ok with flippers and getting them going. Each one will get a full rebuild. They are worn to say the least. Rusty too :-o

The flipper on that side barely does anything and as you have stated will be due to lots of issues rather then one but the main issue is of course that fuse holder as another member stated.

Its all great information to people searching this stuff though. :thumbs:

Pinball mania has been a great help with this project. parts on tap with super fast post!

Going to get a few components for the flipper board and will fit new connectors too. I have some new fuse holders already.
Pics soon
 
Nedreud said:
Wow! Nice bodge!

I'm interested to know if only fixing the fuse holder cures the weak flipper? Please just fix that and test again. I'll be amazed if that alone 100% cures the problem! Everything I've read always seems to imply weak flippers are almost always caused by physical degradation of the flipper mechanism and that overhaul with a flipper kit is the cure. I'm a scientist so rarely take the written word verbatim ;) Experimentation please!
Click to expand...

Im up for an experiment. I will take a before and after board fix video and post the results :thumbs:. I agree that the flippers will need rebuilding though.
 
I'm in the middle of rebuilding my Paragon's flippers - all four of them. Total strip down, tumbling parts, polishing, stripping leaf switches, new coil diodes and rebuilding with new coil sleeves, bushings and flipper bats. Can't wait to see what difference it makes!

Keep up the good work!
 
had a little fiddle today.

From:

i1263.photobucket.com_albums_ii631_deathrowr_DSCF2451_zps468173d4.jpg

To:

i1263.photobucket.com_albums_ii631_deathrowr_DSCF2452_zps9f00f624.jpg

Results?

The left flipper can now get to the top of the PF but not up the right ramp. I would say its now working at around 65%. The right flipper at around 80%.

The left flipper before the repair would barely get above half way and was working at probably under 30%.

Both need rebuild.

As this is a hook the mechs have no switches other than the flipper buttons so I know thats not an issue.
I tested for slack and they are hideous! I'm honestly shocked the right one works as well as it does.
I have a pair of rebuild kits on order.

I cant get the videos to work right now but leave it with me...
 
Rebuilt the flippers and I now have a good strong pair of bats. The machine is now fully working!

Just going to upgrade the CPU and then she's ready for a good strip down and clean up.
 
Just the usual plungers and links isn't it? The flippers on ours are a bit sloppy which I imagine is because of the 'play' in the links.
 
Thanks, @deathrow. I was just interested to see what they look like and how they work after you mentioned them not having switches. I'm a bit of a saddo as I find the whole tinkering and workings of pinball machines fascinating! I assume they're fully electronic?
 
Carl Spiby said:
Just the usual plungers and links isn't it? The flippers on ours are a bit sloppy which I imagine is because of the 'play' in the links.
Click to expand...

Plungers were mushroomed at the end causing them to bite into the very worn coil sleeves.
Got some williams plungers and swapped the links out for repro DE items by knocking out the roll pins.

New Sleeves fitted and a pair of bushes for good measure.

Nothing out of the ordinary really.
 
Nedreud said:
Thanks, @deathrow. I was just interested to see what they look like and how they work after you mentioned them not having switches. I'm a bit of a saddo as I find the whole tinkering and workings of pinball machines fascinating! I assume they're fully electronic?
Click to expand...

All controlled via the flipper board. A timed 50v pulse for the power stroke and then the flipper is held into position with a lower voltage. 18v I think?
No EOS switches to worry about.
 
The roll pins are the same as seen on this williams plunger.

www.thepinballwizard.net_images_products_flpr_0055.jpg

Seen here on my worn DE jobbie

i1263.photobucket.com_albums_ii631_deathrowr_DSCF2481_zps9a2274e6.jpg

Old and rebuilt. Its a williams plunger with a DE repro link (much cheaper) and original clamp.

i1263.photobucket.com_albums_ii631_deathrowr_DSCF2478_zps7248141b.jpg

And for @Nedreud no eos.

i1263.photobucket.com_albums_ii631_deathrowr_DSCF2479_zps78e3c84d.jpg

(ignore the right flipper as not done in this picture.)

And a working machine...

i1263.photobucket.com_albums_ii631_deathrowr_DSCF2480_zpsd45bb23c.jpg
 
Popped the plunger on a soft bit of pine and used a flat punch to gently tap it through just enough to get the link out.
The roll pin sinks into the soft pine without damaging it.
I don't have the luxury of a press or jig/clamp etc here so just had to make do with what I had available.
 
@Carl Spiby - The "correct" way is to use a proper roll pin punch. These have a rounded stud on the end that sits in end of the roll pin and a slight shoulder. They must be the right size for the hole. Unfortunately, like many specialist tools, they tend to be rather expensive and hard to find relative to how often you use them! You can get away with a good drift or flat punch. Block of wood is a fine idea as roll pins are bloody hard and plungers are very soft. Also, try to shim any gaps on either side of the link because I found that the "arms" of the plunger can bend inwards closing the gap on the link. Put some penetrating oil on first (yes! a valid use of WD40!) and leave for 10 mins. A good hard first strike is also supposed to be better with roll pins than lots of little taps, especially if you're not using a proper roll pin punch, as eventually you'll deform/mushroom the end of the pin before it works it's way through the hole. I also read somewhere (desperately trying to find the link) that heating the pin first can help.
 
UPDATE:

Looking at Tod's videos from TNT amusements I noticed they had started to fit coin cell holders to DE and Sega machines.

I found a small holder with an on/off switch and shared my findings along with some insight and video's on this thread..

http://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/coin-cell-holders-remote.13635/#post-80030

The results were not what I had hoped for but at least we now know what to expect once this system has been working for a while. I do wonder if Tod has had similar issues?

Anyway here is the work/experiment:


i1263.photobucket.com_albums_ii631_deathrowr_DSCF2484_zpsb1294444.jpg

With the old battery holder removed and the new cell holder fitted and wired up.

i1263.photobucket.com_albums_ii631_deathrowr_DSCF2486_zps3e9f3aa4.jpg

Time for some memory tests.

The machine was set up and some text added to be remembered once turned off and on again.

i1263.photobucket.com_albums_ii631_deathrowr_DSCF2488_zpsd4812937.jpg

It worked! Well sort off?

For the first week I had no issues what so ever so decided to drain the battery slightly but taking it out and using it on something else that draws a little more current.
I doubt I used 5-10% of the battery life before it lost the memory and I started to get the 'open door' message after turning off and on again.

I had hoped that it would be reliable as these lithium coin cell batteries are "supposed" to give a good constant voltage until nearly completely drained.

So it does work but not for long on this DE machine. A good quality brand battery was used.

Its just too close on the voltage to be reliable :(

So I soldered some remote wires to the original holder and mounted it on the side of the back box and we are golden again :thumbs:

i1263.photobucket.com_albums_ii631_deathrowr_DSCF2487_zps1c2892ae.jpg
 
Are you going to be stripping the playfield any time soon? Looking at doing ours next as the metal bits are a bit dull and I have the loan of a tumbler.
 
Thought about it but I think this will be a pin where I just get it working and playing again.
I get the most fun from fixing these old forgotten shed finds.
 
Last edited:
Well the machine is now a fully functioning game.

She's had a good shake down and I think she should be fairly reliable now. Well for an old pin anyway lol

Heres a vid.

I'm not playing it as I'm on the cam. I just cant multitask lol

i1263_photobucket_com_albums_ii631_deathrowr_th_DSCF2817_zpsq5kebymr_mp4_.jpg
 
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