Would you mind summarising? Or is there a time in the video you’d suggest skipping to?
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Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice. By Spooky
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Would you mind summarising? Or is there a time in the video you’d suggest skipping to?
zxspectrum16k
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Have a go
Stern’s new management comes across as increasingly arrogant, with decisions driven more by accountants than designers. Their shift toward a mainstream market—away from collectors. (which is weird, its too expensive here for mainstream IMO, people are always amazed how much my machines cost) . The Walking Dead Remake reportedly isn’t selling; some distributors in the US didn't order LEs, King Kong underperformed, and LE models are still sitting unsold. The hope is that this poor performance and Spooky raising the bar finally forces Stern to react, which would benefit the entire pinball community—though it’s unclear whether they actually will. They even mentioned a few episodes back that there were rumours Elwin was considering leaving Stern because constraints were forced on his designs.
Stern’s new management comes across as increasingly arrogant, with decisions driven more by accountants than designers. Their shift toward a mainstream market—away from collectors. (which is weird, its too expensive here for mainstream IMO, people are always amazed how much my machines cost) . The Walking Dead Remake reportedly isn’t selling; some distributors in the US didn't order LEs, King Kong underperformed, and LE models are still sitting unsold. The hope is that this poor performance and Spooky raising the bar finally forces Stern to react, which would benefit the entire pinball community—though it’s unclear whether they actually will. They even mentioned a few episodes back that there were rumours Elwin was considering leaving Stern because constraints were forced on his designs.
ballsports
Site Supporter
So this is disgusting but what I don't understand is why imports to say Australia are so much cheaper. Their prices:
Stern Pro: £5.9k vs £8.4k
Stern Premium: £7.7k vs £11.5k
Stern LE: £10.4K vs £15.5k-16.5k
BoF: £10.4k vs £12.5k
Spooky: Don't know their distributor seems to just be a Facebook page with no obvious price list
JJP HP Arcade: £8.6k vs £10k
JJP HP Wizard: £10.2k vs £12k
JJP HP CE: £12.6k vs £15k
I get their equivalent of VAT is lower but we're not talking about a 15% difference here (except the BoF and some JJP models which are close).
We've got the same electricity cycles so should be the same region lock on Stern machines.
Why are we getting hosed so badly?
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Spooky doing Goonies.BOF Goonies and I’m 100% in
We have 2 layers of dealer profit here in the UK - Electrocoin are first they make a profit then sell on to retailers, who also add their profit.
zxspectrum16k
Site Supporter
One of the hosts runs a very popular arcade in the States, and I always find his perspective interesting. He also mentioned that Spooky is improving the maintenance side of their machines to make life easier for the engineers. he is usually quite pro Stern, due to their reliability etc and loves their games
Is Australia like the US where sales tax isn't included in the advertised price?
I guess storage costs could be lower in Aus owing to more space, but still, a Stern Pro for say £7k ish would feel like much better value than currently.
Are Stern in trouble? not really..... if Spooky can make and sell BJ with all those mechs for under $10k and still make money, just imagine how much Stern make per game.
And no matter how good BJ, Winchester etc are, well, you can't buy them, Harry Potter you can though, thats the one thats really taking market share from Stern IMO.
Stern are a hard company to like too, re released 'special editions' £25k Bond
2k toppers that look cheaper than the one Spooky chuck in for free.Not hating on Stern, have a Kong on order, but competition is good, hoping Stern really go the extra mile with code to make it competitive with the others.
ballsports
Site Supporter
Nope they're like us, what you see is what you pay.
Jib
Site Supporter
Because enough people still buy them at the prices they are. If prices were lower would more people buy enough to make up the lesser profit?
Have a go
Stern’s new management comes across as increasingly arrogant, with decisions driven more by accountants than designers. Their shift toward a mainstream market—away from collectors. (which is weird, its too expensive here for mainstream IMO, people are always amazed how much my machines cost) . The Walking Dead Remake reportedly isn’t selling; some distributors in the US didn't order LEs, King Kong underperformed, and LE models are still sitting unsold. The hope is that this poor performance and Spooky raising the bar finally forces Stern to react, which would benefit the entire pinball community—though it’s unclear whether they actually will. They even mentioned a few episodes back that there were rumours Elwin was considering leaving Stern because constraints were forced on his designs.
Thanks, really appreciate it - will give the full video a watch when I have time but sounds like some interesting points raised.
The Walking Dead did seem like a very odd choice for a remaster to say the least and I’m not surprised to hear that LEs aren’t selling well given how Stern have continued to devalue the whole LE model by releasing a load of variants - but I am surprised to hear that Kong underperformed given that it’s an Elwin title with an incredible layout. I suspect it might be because it doesn’t feel like a licensed game, which is ironically the exact reason I like it much more than many other recent releases.
Very interesting to hear rumours of Elwin leaving Stern. I’d love to see what he could do elsewhere with a higher BOM and I think his departure really would hurt them.
OP
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Beetlejuice looks absolutely loaded!
Yes, Stern premiums/LE's are not looking value for money anymore.
I remember when I was deciding between NIB Star Trek pro and LE.
The LE from memory was about £1800 more than the pro and I looked at the features and for me the value was there.
Now the difference between pro and LE is over £5000... and doesn't include toppers etc.
Stern are going to have to make adjustments going forward as they have to be losing many sales after Beetlejuice and Winchester/HP.
Yes, Stern premiums/LE's are not looking value for money anymore.
I remember when I was deciding between NIB Star Trek pro and LE.
The LE from memory was about £1800 more than the pro and I looked at the features and for me the value was there.
Now the difference between pro and LE is over £5000... and doesn't include toppers etc.
Stern are going to have to make adjustments going forward as they have to be losing many sales after Beetlejuice and Winchester/HP.
I had the same dilemma when Jurassic Park came out and I was trying to decide between the Premium and LE.
It was £1k more for the LE but there were enough upgrades that mattered (speakers, invisiglass, powder coating, better art) that I could just about justify it.
Now the LE is an extra £4.4k for the exact same gameplay as the Premium. There’s simply no justification for it - buying one NIB is just rewarding them for taking the absolute ****.
ballsports
Site Supporter
The question is not if I lower my prices will I sell more to cover the difference.
Its if someone else sells lower than me would I sell any at all?
For that reason I imagine electrocoin has a deal with Stern to prevent anyone else setting up as an importer.
I appreciate that we're a smaller market both in population size and the percentage of people who have space to house machines.
Not quite - the deal is that Electrocoin will buy something like £1m of every single Stern title without even knowing what it is and no one else is willing to do that.
I think Stern will struggle over here as long as they maintain the relationship with Electrocoin - what businessman deliberately puts 2 layers between his products and customers like this? It doesn't make sense, it's money for old rope and there is no reason they couldn't allow direct supply to retailers (even if that meant Electrocoin selling B2C). Of course if the sales drop it will be interesting to see if Electrocoin choose to maintain that contract, and if they don't what will Stern do then? Did they really have to buy £1m of Uncanny XMen? 
Back to Beetlejuice - not a theme for me, but it's my (grown up) daughter's favourite movie/theme of all time and she thinks it looks amazing. If they can get supply to the UK to tie in with the stage show that starts here next May, they will be even more sought after here.
Back to Beetlejuice - not a theme for me, but it's my (grown up) daughter's favourite movie/theme of all time and she thinks it looks amazing. If they can get supply to the UK to tie in with the stage show that starts here next May, they will be even more sought after here.
ballsports
Site Supporter
Interesting, do UK distributors order and ship from Electrocoin at point of sale?
That makes sense why Electrocoin get to take such a significant cut because of the upfront risk they take on.
Still is a good enough deal for Stern to region lock the games to uphold it. Otherwise it would be significantly cheaper group buying and importing a crate through US distributors.
Guess 'underperformed' is relative, if they expected to sell like GZ it probably has.
Stern games have always been a bit 'hit or miss' and even the best often start poorly, Bond and Jaws both got slated on here, yet a year or two later are quite sort after.
I'm with you on Kong, the original theme, humour and throwback 90s feel really appeal, I'm really hoping all this competition pushes Stern to pull out all the stops code wise, with top tier code and that layout it could be a cracker of a game.
Stern knowing they will sell x amount of games before it goes on the line regardless of reception must be very valuable to them.
To be honest I'm not sure how that part works - I'm pretty sure Phil has his own stock but not sure about HLD etc.
In terms of the region locking - there are already workarounds for that for Spike 2 and Neil has clearly managed to do the same for Spike 3 given that his imported Star Wars is working. The problem as far as I'm aware is that Stern prohibit US distributors shipping out of the US to protect their overseas distributors, so it's very unlikely you'll find one who will take the risk.
If you want to buy a US game NIB I'm pretty sure the only way is to get it shipped to a US address and then forwarded on.