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The OFFICIAL LICENSED 'moans about pricing' thread

huggers said:
I didn't like to say but 1000% this. 5k SAM and Whitestar games. Come along now.
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I've seen games which I know sold for 2.5 k being listed for £4k.

Nobody is flipping them because they've had them for years and ultimately the games are theirs to sell.

I think prices will drop for the second hand market because of space. I just think people won't make profits them anymore.

I'm in the market for 2 second hand games but I'm prepared to wait for the right one or the right price. However, there was a time when I'd have just purchased a machine from the for sale list and moved it on.
 
Gonzo said:
I've seen games which I know sold for 2.5 k being listed for £4k.

Nobody is flipping them because they've had them for years and ultimately the games are theirs to sell.

I think prices will drop for the second hand market because of space. I just think people won't make profits them anymore.

I'm in the market for 2 second hand games but I'm prepared to wait for the right one or the right price. However, there was a time when I'd have just purchased a machine from the for sale list and moved it on.
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Anyone selling anything they brought pre 2019 is now making a profit... And anyone selling anything they bought 2000-2015 is making a huge profit

Everyone on here drove the pricing up and now will have to fall on their swords if they want to shift them
 
Tilt_Birmingham said:
Everyone on here drove the pricing up and now will have to fall on their swords if they want to shift them
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Slightly bonkers statement seeing that this forum is just one part of the UK pinball market , and tbf asking prices on here between members have historically often been less than the eBay/gumtree jungle . Especially as the price police are never far away 🚨😃

How would prices not have risen when the last few years demand was insane - that’s what happens - the market can’t be controlled by ‘everyone on here’
 
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Sgt GrizZ said:
Slightly bonkers statement seeing that this forum is just one part of the UK pinball market , and tbf asking prices on here between members have historically often been less than the eBay/gumtree jungle . Especially as the price police are never far away 🚨😃

How would prices not have risen when the last few years demand was insane - that’s what happens - the market can’t be controlled by ‘everyone on here’
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Yeah, ebay is massively culpable but then again everyone was sat at home being paid to watch Tiger King.

I do think there are a number of people trying to get Covid prices for their games, however I think less people overpaid on here than on Ebay which was clearly being fuelled by non-pinheads wanting to fill their gamesrooms.

Whatever way you look at it, the market is starting to get flooded and there are less people buying.
 
It is a strange market to get your head round. I'm new here and looking to buy my first pin. I'm pretty set on a new Bond pro, but keep looking at the for sale ads. I've never bought anything with the aim of making money, cars, bikes, houses etc, so wouldn't expect to with a pin. Obviously the world went mad after covid.

I'm looking to buy based on theme, like i guess most do, but see the prem and Le versions in some cases for sale at what seem better prices. The Mandalorion Le for £9500, and seen several Godzilla prem for similar prices. Makes me think would i be better buying one of those, but not a fan of either theme.

So the prices asked are hard to understand. Guess the theme is the deal breaker? Just need to finally decide and pull the trigger. Also fancy a Pulp Fiction, but know that will be a year or so away, and want a pin sooner than later.
 
Doesn't help that the NIB electrocoin dead British £ import prices just continue to climb. Pulls everyone's prices up I guess.
 
Bigr1ch said:
It is a strange market to get your head round. I'm new here and looking to buy my first pin. I'm pretty set on a new Bond pro, but keep looking at the for sale ads. I've never bought anything with the aim of making money, cars, bikes, houses etc, so wouldn't expect to with a pin. Obviously the world went mad after covid.

I'm looking to buy based on theme, like i guess most do, but see the prem and Le versions in some cases for sale at what seem better prices. The Mandalorion Le for £9500, and seen several Godzilla prem for similar prices. Makes me think would i be better buying one of those, but not a fan of either theme.

So the prices asked are hard to understand. Guess the theme is the deal breaker? Just need to finally decide and pull the trigger. Also fancy a Pulp Fiction, but know that will be a year or so away, and want a pin sooner than later.
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Theme is only really a deal-breaker for your personal taste.

Also theme doesn't necessarily mean you'll like the game. I loved the Walking Dead series but hated the game.

The most important thing is to like the game so play it first and do so twice ideally. If Bond is the the game for you because you like the game and you're a Bond fan then that's a decent choice.

You're also not really impacted by the resale 2nd hand problem because you'll be buying new.
 
Bigr1ch said:
It is a strange market to get your head round. I'm new here and looking to buy my first pin. I'm pretty set on a new Bond pro, but keep looking at the for sale ads. I've never bought anything with the aim of making money, cars, bikes, houses etc, so wouldn't expect to with a pin. Obviously the world went mad after covid.

I'm looking to buy based on theme, like i guess most do, but see the prem and Le versions in some cases for sale at what seem better prices. The Mandalorion Le for £9500, and seen several Godzilla prem for similar prices. Makes me think would i be better buying one of those, but not a fan of either theme.

So the prices asked are hard to understand. Guess the theme is the deal breaker? Just need to finally decide and pull the trigger. Also fancy a Pulp Fiction, but know that will be a year or so away, and want a pin sooner than later.
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If you really want a Bond pro, maybe go NIB? 2 year warranty with pinball heaven.

If you are fairly sure you will keep it at least 2 or 3 years, losing a grand or more on selling at this point is acceptable, maybe.

I used to buy NIB, and lose around £500 and then rinse and repeat.

In the current climate, I would have to be super sure I loved the theme to buy a NIB and then keep it a number of years.

Bond code supposed to be pretty good now, so there's that as well.

These are toys at the end of the day and the depreciation, even now ain't that bad.

I remember buying a new plasma TV for £4000, and selling it for £40!
 
huggers said:
Haha yes I know of one or two that are live now 😂. Good luck to them...!
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I don't mind at all mate, sometimes sh!T happens and maybe something comes up that needs to be paid for.

My car and van both broke at the same time and I had to move Aerosmith on.

But ultimately games aren't selling at the higher prices anymore (except for NIB which keep rising) . . . I think they'll drop a bit more mate.
 
Gonzo said:
I don't mind at all mate, sometimes sh!T happens and maybe something comes up that needs to be paid for.

My car and van both broke at the same time and I had to move Aerosmith on.

But ultimately games aren't selling at the higher prices anymore (except for NIB which keep rising) . . . I think they'll drop a bit more mate.
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If it comes to it and sometimes it does then needs must and at the end of the day any pinball is just a big extranagnt toy.. That Aerosmith was mint and very fairly priced and it sold as a result same applies for all sales, keenly priced it'll shift, dreamer prices it won't
 
Gonzo said:
Theme is only really a deal-breaker for your personal taste.

Also theme doesn't necessarily mean you'll like the game. I loved the Walking Dead series but hated the game.

The most important thing is to like the game so play it first and do so twice ideally. If Bond is the the game for you because you like the game and you're a Bond fan then that's a decent choice.

You're also not really impacted by the resale 2nd hand problem because you'll be buying new.
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I would agree with @Gonzo. I recently bought a new-in-box JP2 Prem. I knew, if I sold it, the way prices are going I'd be taking a bath. However, I had literally spent about an hour every fortnight for more than a year playing the JP2 Prem in the Funland arcade in London's Russell Square. I knew this pin wasn't going to leave due to getting bored/frustrated because I'd already played it some stupid number of times.

I think you need to work out @Bigr1ch what you like most about pinball. Do you really like a nostalgic arcade experience - at which point, you might be better going for a classic 80s/90s pin? Do you like fast-paced machines where you're fighting to keep the ball in play - like the pinball equivalent of a knife fight in a phone booth? Do you love setting off fun toys, modes and gimmicks like Addam's Family with the Thing hand, or Twilight Zone with the magnetic upper playfield? Do you want to have a chilled, relaxed experience, maybe listening to music with a beer? Are you a newbie to playing, such that you'd prefer easier shots and a longer ball time? Do you want to play with family and friends, including casual players? e.g. @Gonzo apparently had a load of fun with Dolly Parton, as the rules are really easy to understand. Do you LOVE the excitement of multiball - if so, JJP's Guns & Roses might be for you? Or do you want to kick back and relax with deep theme integration, a low risk of draining the ball, and a long story-like game?

I'd think about this stuff before choosing solely on theme :)

There are pins I've owned where I've loved the theme and sold the pin anyway. I love the Lord of the Rings film and books. My wedding ring is the flipping One Ring. I also find the experience of playing fan layouts where, if you don't aim properly, the ball just noodles around casually similar to watching paint dry. So, despite *loving* the theme, after a year, I just wanted shot of Lord of the Rings. Genuinely, @MadMonzer loved playing it, but - by the time LoTR left - even the callouts ("A new power is rising. To WARRR!") irritated me, never mind the gameplay. Happily, @MadMonzer was happy to sell it and buy something else.

Really, really, every pin we have now, I've played a tonne of times and in environments (such as the Pinball Republic club in Croydon) where there are loads of other pins, so you're actively choosing to play a game (as opposed to where you're simply glad to see a pinball machine). We chose our first pin (still here) after playing on the Williams pinball app a load of times, which is also an option, but vPins don't work the same - so, real life is best :)

Just find a local venue with pins, play a lot, get a feel for what you like :)
 
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Looking at sales there's a handful of reasonably priced games sitting, but many with very 'optimistic' prices still, which is making things look worse.

Things have changed, people have had their mortgage double, or will do soon, the lucky few can stick that 10k pin money in the bank, earn £££ in interest and see where the market is in a year or two.
NIB prices have increased significantly since 2020, but don't seem to be selling very well.

My prediction for the near future....

B/W A list £4k-6k
B/W B list £2.5k
B/W C list £1.5k

Stern DMD £1.5k-£4k
Stern LCD Pros £4k-£5k
Stern LCD Prems £5k-6k
Stern LCD LE's £6k-£8k
 
kev a said:
Looking at sales there's a handful of reasonably priced games sitting, but many with very 'optimistic' prices still, which is making things look worse.

Things have changed, people have had their mortgage double, or will do soon, the lucky few can stick that 10k pin money in the bank, earn £££ in interest and see where the market is in a year or two.
NIB prices have increased significantly since 2020, but don't seem to be selling very well.

My prediction for the near future....

B/W A list £4k-6k
B/W B list £2.5k
B/W C list £1.5k

Stern DMD £1.5k-£4k
Stern LCD Pros £4k-£5k
Stern LCD Prems £5k-6k
Stern LCD LE's £6k-£8k
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If anyone is selling a stranger things le for 6k I’m ya man 😂😂😂 drop me a pm
 
kev a said:
Looking at sales there's a handful of reasonably priced games sitting, but many with very 'optimistic' prices still, which is making things look worse.

Things have changed, people have had their mortgage double, or will do soon, the lucky few can stick that 10k pin money in the bank, earn £££ in interest and see where the market is in a year or two.
NIB prices have increased significantly since 2020, but don't seem to be selling very well.

My prediction for the near future....

B/W A list £4k-6k
B/W B list £2.5k
B/W C list £1.5k

Stern DMD £1.5k-£4k
Stern LCD Pros £4k-£5k
Stern LCD Prems £5k-6k
Stern LCD LE's £6k-£8k
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I can’t see prices going that low unless NIB prices come down. Who’s going to spend 8.5k on a pro if they know they can only get 5k for it? Some older ones maybe, I think a BKsor went for 5k earlier this year but I think that’s the only one that low so far, publicly at least.
 
Jib said:
I can’t see prices going that low unless NIB prices come down. Who’s going to spend 8.5k on a pro if they know they can only get 5k for it? Some older ones maybe, I think a BKsor went for 5k earlier this year but I think that’s the only one that low so far, publicly at least.
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I think you're right. If no one wants to buy NIB because they're afraid of losing money, there are going to be a lot fewer new pins entering the country. That means fewer nearly-new pins and higher prices for them.

It is entirely possible that the bottom will drop out of the vintage pin market because there are so many new pins being released in the States. There was an influx of new people getting into pinball/games rooms during the pandemic and, once they've filled available space, the only way for them to buy new pins is to dump older ones onto the second-hand market. I'm in that position - I have to sell pins to make space.

However, if prices stay high in America and there aren't new pins coming into the UK, then the B/W machines, etc. will become more desirable because they're the only things around for sale. Also, there's a real exhaustion of ideas among some of the more established manufacturers and older designers, which make the overpriced new pins less attractive than they would be otherwise. I simply don't see why I'd want to pay £10k+ for a stripped-down rehash of a vintage layout. I'm with Kaneda on this - he has it nailed: https://www.patreon.com/posts/picture-worth-91560236 RGB LEDs simply aren't that exciting.
 
Jib said:
I can’t see prices going that low unless NIB prices come down. Who’s going to spend 8.5k on a pro if they know they can only get 5k for it? Some older ones maybe, I think a BKsor went for 5k earlier this year but I think that’s the only one that low so far, publicly at least.
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Yup that was mine, sold it for 5250 and even then I had people trying to knock it down even further. I got what I thought was a pretty fair price.
 
VeeMonroe said:
If no one wants to buy NIB because they're afraid of losing money,
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And this is exactly why it's now more important than ever to chose wisely with NIB purchases. Be prepared to be stuck with them so make sure it's a game you love.

I'm delighted to have BM66, Deadpool and TBL because I'll keep them.

Foo Fighters is probably not a long term keeper, but it's decent enough that it's no hardship if I can't move it on because I enjoy playing it. Sure, there are other games I'd prefer but it's not tombstoned and redundant.
 
Jib said:
I can’t see prices going that low unless NIB prices come down. Who’s going to spend 8.5k on a pro if they know they can only get 5k for it? Some older ones maybe, I think a BKsor went for 5k earlier this year but I think that’s the only one that low so far, publicly at least.
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NIB prices will have to come down, from Stern at least, the competition already offers better value. They have a big new factory, that investment will only work if they can increase production and decrease costs.
They have huge market share, so increased sales will have to come from additional pin purchases rather than stealing share from others.

There's plenty of wiggle room for Stern to decrease UK pricing (already happened a little bit) because of the Electrocoin model, UK is still expensive for pins compared to Aus for example, and rerunning LE's as Anniversary editions won't help second hand values either, coupled with inflation that will remain high for a while plus an incoming Labour government will be under pressure from all sides to increase tax/spend, there's a way to go yet IMO.
 
Gonzo said:
And this is exactly why it's now more important than ever to chose wisely with NIB purchases. Be prepared to be stuck with them so make sure it's a game you love.
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Yeah, 💯

People keep comparing pins to cars in terms of pricing and, to be honest, that's a good way to think. You don't usually buy a car expecting to leave it in a garage and move it on in six months, but there seem to be people (mostly in the USA, I admit) who put 230 plays on a $10k machine in six months, sell it and buy a different one.

People's money is what they care to use it for but, for most people, these machines are expensive. So, when I bought JP2 Prem, I was thinking like a car. I enjoy tournament play. It's one of the best machines for practicing pinball techniques (it's No. 1 on Abe Flips recent Top 5 pins), and I bought it expecting to enjoy spending an indefinite period of time trying to learn how not to suck. It helps that I like the theme, the moving T-Rex and the music, but it was definitely a purchase more like a sofa than a video game.
 
VeeMonroe said:
Yeah, 💯

People keep comparing pins to cars in terms of pricing and, to be honest, that's a good way to think. You don't usually buy a car expecting to leave it in a garage and move it on in six months, but there seem to be people (mostly in the USA, I admit) who put 230 plays on a $10k machine in six months, sell it and buy a different one.

People's money is what they care to use it for but, for most people, these machines are expensive. So, when I bought JP2 Prem, I was thinking like a car. I enjoy tournament play. It's one of the best machines for practicing pinball techniques (it's No. 1 on Abe Flips recent Top 5 pins), and I bought it expecting to enjoy spending an indefinite period of time trying to learn how not to suck. It helps that I like the theme, the moving T-Rex and the music, but it was definitely a purchase more like a sofa than a video game.
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In all honesty, I buy most pins happy enough in the knowledge that I'll lose £500 if I've had a good bit of fun on them. I've broken even a few times, and even made a couple of hundred once (but that was more about because of airbrushing than game).

What I can't afford to do is lose more than a grand over a 12 month period which is why I really can't justify a punt on something like Elton or even Jaws.

The short version is that I'm being more careful.

It's the same with used games too. I've seen two games which I fancied recently but they were a bit overpriced. I guess I could have made an offer, but I'm happy to wait for a few months rather than stretch myself financially.

#thriftypinballing 😉
 
Gonzo said:
In all honesty, I buy most pins happy enough in the knowledge that I'll lose £500 if I've had a good bit of fun on them. I've broken even a few times, and even made a couple of hundred once (but that was more about because of airbrushing than game).
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I'm very VERY fortunate to have regular access to probably about 100 different pins within an hours' journey by bike/train. So, it's very easy for me to clock up 40-50 games on a pin (at minimum) before choosing to buy it - sometimes, on multiple different examples. Even new Sterns, I can usually play the first Pro to hit the UK within a week or so of it arriving.

It must be a huge nuisance having to make purchases with limited information, and then expect to lose a grand if you get it wrong :( Careful is definitely the right word here :)
 
Jib said:
Looks like I should have sold my FF last week 😆 was waiting for 1.0 code before letting it go but I already know I don’t want it long term. If people can get a nib one for 7.5 I’m going to lose 2k on mine (I paid 8.5) oh well
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Well, if it helps, it is just Venom (so far)...

My understanding is that it's sold very poorly due to the lack of toys/unfashionable theme/incomprehensible rules/unadventurous fan layout, and the fact that everyone is waiting for Elwin on Jaws.

I personally don't see how Brian Eddy, John Borg and Steve Ritchie can possibly hope to continue selling pins at current prices without bringing their 'A' game (or Stern having a killer licence). It's not like you can't get an older version of almost the exact same layout by the same designer for thousands less...
 
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Electrocoin have done "clearance" reductions on occasion since the 80s . All pinball distros did. Sometimes a game wasn't seller due to bad timing like family guy or the theme/package was disappointing like zep. Don't expect any cheap elvira soon and l doubt any movement on beatles.
Distro close outs in the past often led to a higher than expected number of games entering the UK market . A classic example was cosmic gunfight
 
steve brum said:
and l doubt any movement on beatles.
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Great minds think alike ;)

I was wondering if Electrocoin's mythical stash of unsold Beatles Diamond/Platinum editions might one day make their way to market for the same price as a Gold edition...
 
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