His reply on the venom thread implied that he'd been given a discount by Electrocoin last time, which wasn't given to other distributors. Which was then reversed when someone else complained.
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The OFFICIAL LICENSED 'moans about pricing' thread
- Thread starter VeeMonroe
- Start date
Just had a quick look at how many full pages of pins are currently tagged as 'For Sale' on the forum, to try and gauge the market with some statistics.
The post quoted above was from end of June last year, and at that point it was into the 4th page of for sale adverts - it's just crept into the 6th page of them now. So I guess this indicates that there's still a disconnect between seller hopes/expectations on pricing and market reality.
Yeah, for sure. But it's the pattern (significantly net-increasing list size) that's revealing/insightful, rather than the absolute total number for sale (for the reason you suggest).
I know that watches aren't pinball machines. Nor are classic cars. But all were lifted by the same lockdown tide of easy printed money, covid grants, locked up at home, rich getting richer, inability to spend money on outdoor entertainment etc etc
Watch prices peaked in Spring 2022. This is a snapshot from one of the popular watch channels of how far they had fallen from then to January 2024.
Watch prices peaked in Spring 2022. This is a snapshot from one of the popular watch channels of how far they had fallen from then to January 2024.
CPU / Motherboard prices too.
Anything that requires a healthy amount of technology has spiked in price over the last 5 years - some car manufacturers were even blaming semiconductor shortages to cost them billions.
I said before I try not to stress about the cost of it but it’s an effort not to sometimes when I paid 1k more for a nib FF pro than a Jaws pro. Probably get lower prices on premiums next because I just bought a nib one
Could be worse, at least you didn't pay for an LE
(though mine is a keeper, so current value is somewhat irrelevant...)
I don’t know if this helps, but I have a ‘permanent collection’ and have been experimenting with a ‘guest machine’.
There’s also, of course, the temporary trade option - swap one of your machines temporarily with someone else, although I haven’t tried that
Yep, that's pretty much where I'm at now. I have machines that I know are never leaving, or at least I'll never sell.
Then for others, the plan is they'll stay for a while and then go (I've not been too good at the 'go' part of that). If they're s/h then the market moves up/down don't affect things too much as all machines tend to change value in a similar way, the issue is if you repeatedly by NIB machines, then you'll be taking losses on each one the same as when you buy anything 'new'.
The trade option works fine and lets you try out another machine without committing to selling one that you think you'll want to keep but don't play all the time.
I also suspect that the closure of Electric Circus and PBR move have both contributed to downward pressure - there's a lot of machines that came available, whether to sell/borrow/rent that previously weren't in the pool of machines moving between people.
Still, we're lucky to be in a position to be able to buy any of these toys. If you told fifteen year old me (who lived in the arcade) that one day I'd basically own a small arcade's worth full of games, that I could play at home whenever I wanted, I'd never have believed you!
Price check please.
So what's peoples latest thoughts on pricing on used modern Stern Pro's, Bond, GZ, Foo, StTh , JP, Venom, rush etc. Seeing as Jaws NIB was available at 7.5k.
All recent latest Stern's now 6.5k for stock machines
Possibly not so much people now moaning about the pricing, more so if in for a Jaws.
So what's peoples latest thoughts on pricing on used modern Stern Pro's, Bond, GZ, Foo, StTh , JP, Venom, rush etc. Seeing as Jaws NIB was available at 7.5k.
All recent latest Stern's now 6.5k for stock machines
Possibly not so much people now moaning about the pricing, more so if in for a Jaws.
Price check please.
So what's peoples latest thoughts on pricing on used modern Stern Pro's, Bond, GZ, Foo, StTh , JP, Venom, rush etc. Seeing as Jaws NIB was available at 7.5k.
All recent latest Stern's now 6.5k for stock machines
Possibly not so much people now moaning about the pricing, more so if in for a Jaws.
You have to expect to take a hit on NIB now.
Bond might be a bit different because I can't recall too many coming up for sale and the game appears to be aging well.
Most definitely, I would expect to take a hit on every Stern NIB right now tbh an easy 1k loss now, more so with their games manufactured and made for years.
Bond yes I forgot, a great game. That was the start of the last major hike in price increases, so may be worth a little more, but is it.
As someone who would love a Bond I have been following this game since release,
Bond was released in September 2022, was 8.1 to 8.5k new. Now NIB pretty much 8k. Still waiting for code to be completed
Bond will be a sought after game going forward for sure, little on 2nd hand market but for now there are possibly more UK NIB being available than actual owners, last I checked with all UK distributors they have them ready to go out the door.Jaws I was mega tempted to go for, not gonna lie. A game I coulda kept for 6-12months and maybe got near 7k for on resale if didn't like it. But how long for code complete to get full game
New prices don't affect me for Stern as I've never bought a NIB Stern and now don't really plan to now. Used Stern Pro prices for me going forward to rotate is where it's at. I predict awesome games now in the 5-6.5k range for fairly recent titles.
However I will have very little chance on buying latest upcoming Stern used newer released titles on used market going forward due to pricing, not much will be available
Market has not yet bottomed out and if all NIB pros come in at 7.5 then why would anyone in their right mind pay 7k for a used one with xxx plays and no warranty?
It’s easy for someone to say all pros are only worth 5k but find me a Venom for 5k or for that matter a bond for 6 and I’ll find room for both!
That unfortunately is not gonna happen in the current market but hold ya passions and who knows.
The sensible option NIB buyers should consider is to at least wait until code is at 1.0 just look at how Bond has blossomed and I’m sure Jaws will be the same being an Elwin pin.
It’s easy for someone to say all pros are only worth 5k but find me a Venom for 5k or for that matter a bond for 6 and I’ll find room for both!
That unfortunately is not gonna happen in the current market but hold ya passions and who knows.
The sensible option NIB buyers should consider is to at least wait until code is at 1.0 just look at how Bond has blossomed and I’m sure Jaws will be the same being an Elwin pin.
Bond, that be the one to watch out for. I predict sought after in a year or so. I would love one at some point.
I put a wanted ad out before xmas for Ghostbusters, Deadpool and Bond Pro's. Only one offer came back, Ghostbusters at £6.75k.
I put a wanted ad out before xmas for Ghostbusters, Deadpool and Bond Pro's. Only one offer came back, Ghostbusters at £6.75k.
Maybe people are hanging onto what they have bought during lockdown or at the height of the market. Getting kicked in the bollo’s by 2k is a hard one to take for anyone.
I think 6.5k is now top end for a used pro, even with mods, then less for less desired titles. As Col said if nib is 7.5k with free delivery and 2 year warranty, I personally would want at least 1k off for used.
Unfortunately there will be a lot of people who paid more than 7.5k for a nib pro so maybe reluctant to sell even if what they are replacing it with is cheaper than a year ago but especially if they are selling without replacing it immediately with something else. That won’t just be Bonds and FF, people bought GZ, DP etc when prices were 8k+
The other thing maybe making people reluctant to sell is that Venom and Jaws have both been presented as special offers, we have no idea if this is the new price going forward or if the next title suddenly springs back to 8.5k.
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TBL isn’t mainstream though. the manufacturer isn’t huge, has had supply issues, so puts people off and the theme is niche.
I just bought a nib DP prem expecting anywhere from 1-3k loss if I wanted to sell in a couple of months. The market is too small to know for sure how much something will be worth but I wasn’t offered any prems or LEs at all and only 1 pro starting asking price of 8k, so it is title dependent too. Also about timing, a wanted ad vs a for sale ad, the only machine for sale of that title vs a couple at the same time.
If you think a pro is 1k loss opening the box then a prem is probably more. GZ is a great game but there’s one sitting for 9k, there may be more GZs than any other modern game though or 9k maybe too much for any used premium
It was £10500 wasn't it? Slight bias as I own one but I thought that TBL asking price was a bit bonkers. The seller didn't leave any room for bartering and looked like he wanted rid of it as soon as possible. If you're willing to lose £2500-£3000 after a few plays then I'm guessing you are doing quite well financially in life.
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I could see Stranger things with uv being a little bit over 6.5k, as you say uv kit is a must! Last 2 sold for around/ just over 7k, both with uv kits and toppers.
This is where it gets difficult with different nib prices for different titles. The recent nib stranger things were 8k, nib Jaws 7.5k, nib ff 8.5k. Even though I paid 8.5k for my foo if I sold right now I’d expect to take more than a 1k hit on it because people may be expecting the next nib batch to be 7.5.
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I think in general though, you have to see the special promotions as the corporate acknowledgment that nib prices have reach a point that is not working sales wise. A tipping point if you like.
I’d assume they will drop until sales increase to a profitable level.
If they don’t, I would also assume they would look at the more profitable markets and concentrate on those core areas and possibly withdraw from smaller less profitable ones.
One last thought is that while nib prices dropping have to be a good thing, we must be careful what we wish for as there could be unforeseen outcomes down the line.
I’d assume they will drop until sales increase to a profitable level.
If they don’t, I would also assume they would look at the more profitable markets and concentrate on those core areas and possibly withdraw from smaller less profitable ones.
One last thought is that while nib prices dropping have to be a good thing, we must be careful what we wish for as there could be unforeseen outcomes down the line.
I also don't think that Sterns last two releases have wowed people like in the past. Obviously this has happened before but were there really alternatives?
Maybe that has forced the price of the Sterns down a bit? I know a few who have decided against Jaws and bought either Elton or Pulp instead.
Maybe that has forced the price of the Sterns down a bit? I know a few who have decided against Jaws and bought either Elton or Pulp instead.
I think the discounts are at distributor rather than manufacturer level?!? In which case, an alternative reason for the discounts could be distributors with excess stock that needs moving on - even if unprofitably.
Well yeh when I saw it myself I thought it was nuts. But col was offered 4 tbls, sure one was offered for 10k.
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I have absolutely no idea what price a distro pays for a Stern Pro but If there’s no profit to be made at £7.5 then why would anyone in there right mind bother?
Add the ball ache of storage and the associated logistics of repair sounds like unnecessary stress to me and doesn’t pay the bills.
Which is totally fine with me obvs! Happy now to hold out on any pin and see what the flash sale price is when they land
That’s been my situation. I’ve got two Elwins here, JP2 and GZ, and I kinda expected that Jaws might displace one of them, and I’d lose ‘£xk’ from paying NIB on both those pins.
When I played Jaws… it’s not bad, but with current code it’s just underwhelming.
With Godzilla Pro in 2021, I played it for the first time in Funland having not seriously considered a Spike 2 Stern in the past, and was just blown away and bought my first NIB. I played Jaws Pro/Prem at London EAG and was just a bit ‘uh, oh yeah, okay, it’s just another Stern’.
I’m currently borrowing a Elton John, have played PF, and so on, and feel there are just so many more options now. I’d consider Labyrinth, Galactic Tank Force… pretty much anything things at UK prices above a Jaws Prem.
I can see the case for a Pro as a cheap(er) NIB option, but Stern just aren’t delivering at the LE/Prem price point and, to be honest, I don’t see why I’d buy a NIB Venom Pro (missing the key feature) when I could get a superb DMD-era Stern for a lower price.
Unless Spike 3 brings some huge improvements in possibilities I can see Godzilla being the high water mark for Stern (for the foreseeable future) it was developed during Covid with a lot more development time and upon release the closest to being 'finished' code wise, the promos felt like watching a complete game, rather than a glimpse of what it may become.
Stern now have some serious competition, like Gonzo and Vee said, sure you might get Jaws, but you might also get PF, GTF or Labyrinth etc....
Going back to Jaws for a second, I actually believe Keith that a ball eating shark would be detrimental to gameplay in the long term, after seeing it hundreds of times the appeal wanes..... however that doesn't really matter, what matters is how it looks watching the promo video in one tab and Pinball Heavens page open in another and the credit card calling from your wallet.
After some code and playing it on location, people will love it but its too late by then, Pinballs are a heart not a head purchase and Stern really lack recently at grabbing peoples attention, they need to get peoples orders quick, before the next shiny new thing comes along and people get distracted.
I just don't see how Stern can produce enough games to fully utilise the new factory while increasing prices. They need to use volume to compete more on value, thats the one big advantage they have over the smaller manufacturers and not something thats easy for the others to compete with, unlike snagging a killer theme, attracting design talent, or producing attention grabbing release videos, which the others have mastered.
Stern now have some serious competition, like Gonzo and Vee said, sure you might get Jaws, but you might also get PF, GTF or Labyrinth etc....
Going back to Jaws for a second, I actually believe Keith that a ball eating shark would be detrimental to gameplay in the long term, after seeing it hundreds of times the appeal wanes..... however that doesn't really matter, what matters is how it looks watching the promo video in one tab and Pinball Heavens page open in another and the credit card calling from your wallet.
After some code and playing it on location, people will love it but its too late by then, Pinballs are a heart not a head purchase and Stern really lack recently at grabbing peoples attention, they need to get peoples orders quick, before the next shiny new thing comes along and people get distracted.
I just don't see how Stern can produce enough games to fully utilise the new factory while increasing prices. They need to use volume to compete more on value, thats the one big advantage they have over the smaller manufacturers and not something thats easy for the others to compete with, unlike snagging a killer theme, attracting design talent, or producing attention grabbing release videos, which the others have mastered.
