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T2 "CPU String" lamps not working

Dinsdale

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Hi guys

Alright, this one is the entire "CPU String" lights in the middle of the playfield aren't working.

Have replaced bulb holders and no avail.

Pins look soldered correctly.

There are also two subtle lights, one nearby each flipper, that are also not working. These look to be in bulb sockets. I didn't even notice these until making this thread. I think they come under GI too so they're related.

Solder joints look ok to me (that's an untrained eye though). Used a multimeter on 200 Ohms but not sure if using it correctly either.

Any help appreciated.
 

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Those are just gi lamps check the fuses at the bottom left of the driver board look for burned connectors on j115 j120 and j121
 
The unlit lamp you picture near the flipper / larger socket on your under playfield picture is actually a flashlamp - it will only flash at certain times. There is one near each flipper. Uses a larger #89 style lamp. You can go into the test menu and activate the flashlamps to see if they are working.
 
The unlit lamp you picture near the flipper / larger socket on your under playfield picture is actually a flashlamp - it will only flash at certain times. There is one near each flipper. Uses a larger #89 style lamp. You can go into the test menu and activate the flashlamps to see if they are working.
Cycling through the flashers and they're not coming on, I am going to look at manual and see what they're called.

Those are just gi lamps check the fuses at the bottom left of the driver board look for burned connectors on j115 j120 and j121

Thanks! Fuses seem ok, There was a burn at the back of the board when I took it off on J115 when I was looking at a different issue but seller said it wasn't an issue as it wasn't used.

Here's a video of the fuses. They seem ok to me.
 

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Re the 3 x CPU lamps. As Chris said they are part of the GI string. Are the other lamps on the same/Green string lit ok ? If so then it's that lamp board has an issue. Reseat connector. Ensure wires in connector are well seated. Reflow header pins on the board.
Have you checked it with known working lamp holders/bulbs ? Just to rule out blown bulbs or holder issue?
 
The 'CPU' insert in the playfield is actually all of that G.I. string. Even if there were spare nodes in the lamp matrix, I read somewhere that no lamp location in the lamp matrix could have more than three lamps.

As I recall, wrongly, the flashbulbs were called 'left (or right) flipper sling'. I haven't heard flashbulbs called subtle before. Though I may now use it as a euphemism; e.g. '"this machine has quite a few lamps that are, erm, subtle"

The manual on-line doesn't mention Cpu as a G.I. string, only that the Orange/White-orange circuit isn't used. Fuse 109, the upper of the stack of two, rather than three. But the photos give the lie to this, the three circuits shown in what I take to be the playfield connector are Yellow, Green and Violet. So Cpu is indeed Green circuit, Fuse 107. With the string supposedly lit, there should be 6.5v AC between Green and White-green. According to the driver board schematic, the Green circuit is powered from J115, Pin 5 (to fuse 107) and pin 12 (from control triac Q 12), so these should also show the ac input voltage.
 
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The 'CPU' insert in the playfield is actually all of that G.I. string. Even if there were spare nodes in the lamp matrix, I read somewhere that no lamp location can have more than three lamps.

As I recall, wrongly, the flashbulbs were called 'left (or right) flipper sling'. I haven't heard flashbulbs called subtle before.

The manual on-line doesn't mention Cpu as a G.I. string, only that the Orange/White-orange circuit isn't used. Fuse 109, the upper of the stack of two, rather than three. But the photos give the lie to this, the three circuits shown in what I take to be the playfield connector are Yellow, Green and Violet. So Cpu is indeed Green circuit, Fuse 107. With the string supposedly lit, there should be 6.5v AC between Green and White-green. According to the driver board schematic, the Green circuit is powered from J115, Pin 5 (to fuse 107) and pin 12 (from control triac Q12), so these should also show the ac input voltage.
So when I test left and right sling, there is a light that comes up on the back box. I may have something plugged in the wrong place?

I did think that was odd when I first got the machine but I just assumed the backbox would light up when a sling was hit.

I'm not sure if you're being facetious but i meant they're subtle in that they're hidden and not easily visible, not that that's what they're called but that did give me a good laugh 😂

Could this also be why the CPU String isn't lighting up too?!

Here's the plugs that don't have something plugged in on the power driver board.

J103
J104
J105
J108
J111
J116
J123
J124
J128
J129
J131
J132
J133
J137
 
The manual on-line doesn't mention Cpu as a G.I. string, only that the Orange/White-orange circuit isn't used.
Maybe its the manual has a misprint as video shows there is actually an orange circuit and manual confirms they are located in the correct positions on the machine connector i.e. j120-2 and j120-8 per video.

Regardless it is irrelevant here as its not the orange feed 5 circuit that is the issue.

It wouldn't be the first time there is a misprint in the manual.
 
So when I test left and right sling, there is a light that comes up on the back box. I may have something plugged in the wrong place?

I did think that was odd when I first got the machine but I just assumed the backbox would light up when a sling was hit.

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Looking at manual that’s correct - for 18 and 19 there is the playfield flash lamp ( a #89 bayonet ) and a backbox flash lamp (#906 push in) . They should both flash .
 
And the general illumination (gi) cpu lights have nothing to do with the flashers.

@Jay Walker sets out the gi circuit that you have a problem with being the green/white circuit and you should work through that as he suggests to see what voltage you have at each stage on that circuit.
 
I didn't mean to appear facetious, but the use of flashbulbs has always been to attract attention; with a couple of System 11 games, the flashbulb routine for a High Score entry has to be seen to be believed.

There was a burn at the back of the board when I took it off on J115 when I was looking at a different issue but seller said it wasn't an issue as it wasn't used.

I think that's mistaken - it's a 12-pin connector, the intentionally blank 'key' pin and a 'Ground Reference' leave 10, enough for 5 2-wire ac input circuits, so what isn't used?. As I read the schematic, 'Green' string sends power out to the playfield lamps (all four of them) from pins 5 and 10 of the connector pictured. It receives its input from J 115, with pin 5 supplying Fuse 107, and pin 12 returning power from the control triac, Q 12. Either of those points not actually making contact would knock out Green string. The connecting pins themselves may show an ac reading, but if a pin isn't in contact with its copper trace on the circuit board it's no good. I'd measure continuity, from a) J 115, pin 5 to F 107, and b) J 115, pin 12 to Q 12 (I'm not sure which actual terminal of it, though). Correction; the circuit return is as Asia says below, from Q 16, which connects to pin 10 of J 115. Disregarding Ground and Key, pins 2 through 6 each connect to a fuse, while 7, 8, 10, 11 & 12 connect to a triac.

As to the flashbulbs, it seems the drive transistors for them, Q 38 for left and Q 40 for right, are working, and each supplying the lamp on the Insert Board. They have two separate connectors, J 126 for the playfield lamps and the smaller J 125 for the back box lamps, connected largely in parallel on the circuit board. Each of these uses pin 2 for the right side circuit, and pin 3 for the left. So both connectors should have the wires for these lamps in those pins; Right is Black with red trace, Left is Black with orange.

Just to confirm, though, 'testing right and left slingshot' does mean in this case 'left and right slingshot flashbulb'?. The slingshot coil drives shouldn't have a flashbulb piggy-backing onto them. In play, the lamps may accompany the coil operating, but not from the same driver circuit.

And Sarge, is the mention of 'Hot Dog' flashbulb left over from Funhouse? No, Funhouse had 'Superdogs'. The playfield drawing suggests that these are the lamps for the 'Autofire' crescent-shaped insert. That chart also seems to have the additional listing of pins in J 125 wrong.
 
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Ok thanks all. Much of this I don't understand.

Can someone tell me in laymen's terms what I need to do to test a circuit? I have a multimeter, what setting do I put it on, where do I put the leads etc.

I get the concept of testing (I test things at work), I just don't know how to do electrical components.
 
Set the DMM to diode/continuity test. Hopefully yours will beep like mine does. If you touch the 2 leads together you will get a beep and the gauge will read very close to zero ohms. You can use this to make sure there is continuity between any 2 points in a circuit.

To use on a machine, the machine should be off and you just touch the points you want to test continuity across. If it beeps (or goes to 0 ohms) you have continuity.
 

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Ok, got it. I had it on a wrong setting. It was diode I needed.

So on stuff like the ball popper solenoid, it beeps. Easy.

On the flasher that doesn't work, I don't get anything BUT on flashers that do work I don't get anything either.

I am touching it at the solder joints, which worked for the solenoids. Have posted a pic.

When it comes to the connector for the LED board, where do I touch there? There doesn't seem to be anywhere.

Sorry for what are most likely ridiculously stupid questions.
 

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Deal with the 2 issues separately. Read @Jay Walker post at 9.59 this morning. For the flashers you should first be checking connectors at J125 and J126 (post a pic of the connectors if you like).

For the CPR lights you should follow what Jay Walker says and test continuity between J115 / F107/ Q12 etc. as he states.

Diagnosing remotely like this is really difficult to do and its best to take one step at a time and report back. What Jay walker states will tell us whether there is a problem with the main pcb or not. If its not that then there will be another set of tests coming. One step at a time.

No question is ridiculously stupid. We all started somewhere and its great that you want to learn.
 
Deal with the 2 issues separately. Read @Jay Walker post at 9.59 this morning. For the flashers you should first be checking connectors at J125 and J126 (post a pic of the connectors if you like)..
Here you go. Both the connectors and the pins.
 

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Here you go. Both the connectors and the pins.
Its hard to see from the photo, but as Jay Walker states below what you need to check is pin 2 and pin 3 of the connector, particularly on the larger J126 connector which supplies the playfield and make sure the wires are in place. Here is what Jay said, from above:

"As to the flashbulbs, it seems the drive transistors for them, Q 38 for left and Q 40 for right, are working, and each supplying the lamp on the Insert Board. They have two separate connectors, J 126 for the playfield lamps and the smaller J 125 for the back box lamps, connected largely in parallel on the circuit board. Each of these uses pin 2 for the right side circuit, and pin 3 for the left. So both connectors should have the wires for these lamps in those pins; Right is Black with red trace, Left is Black with orange."
 
Ok, I do have a moles IDC 0.156" punch down tool on the way to see if I can push down another light wire, so I'll try that.

Failing that, I'm probably going to need Erie strippers, new connectors, a crumping tool, the tiny metal connectors to crimp the wires onto - do you know where I can get these for what I need?

I'm thinking I'm going to eventually need these types of things anyway, and it may be worth redoing the connectors as they seem pretty old.
 
On the GI issue, you may find this useful - a circuit diagram of the Green/white GI.

And the associated control triac is Q16 and not Q12. The manual incorrectly states it is Q12. And its the middle leg of Q16 that should give continuity to J120 pin 5.

The reason Jay Walker was saying you should test the board first is that you said there was burning at the rear. Most likely suspect for lack of continuity is between J115 pin 5 and F107, so test that first.
 

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Ok, I do have a moles IDC 0.156" punch down tool on the way to see if I can push down another light wire, so I'll try that.

Failing that, I'm probably going to need Erie strippers, new connectors, a crumping tool, the tiny metal connectors to crimp the wires onto - do you know where I can get these for what I need?

I'm thinking I'm going to eventually need these types of things anyway, and it may be worth redoing the connectors as they seem pretty old.
The connectors should be fine and there should be no need to replace them even though they are old. The punch tool you have should be all you need.. The only ones that cause any great trouble are J115 or J120/1 and they have been replaced already on your machine.
 
The damn manual seems to have more than the usual amount of errors. In the Solenoid Location drawing of the playfield, and the listing front of manual, 'Drop Target Flashbulb' is listed, accompanied by the coil used. And the fuse listing states G.I. Green is fuse 108. I've been through the schematic enough times now, and playfield connector pins 5 & 10 (Green circuit) relate to F 107 and as Asia points out Q 16. And J 115, co-incidentally also pins 5 and 10, respectively.

If I may suggest re. tracking down any errant connections, later games have a different method of listing pin-outs at the back of the manual. F'r instance, Black Rose*, which seems to have introduced it; the manual takes each board, and lists each connector pin-by-pin, rather than the T2 method of listing wire colours and saying what connector they're used in. Bear in mind that it has different solenoid, flashbulb and GI string assignments, and Fliptronic II (so that there won't be flipper circuits for the driver board), but combined with the T2 listing and your actual machine it may be some help. ipdb.org, for finding a copy of that.

* altered from White Water, since BR doesn't name solenoids and flashbulbs, just giving their number. There's still the occasional error, though - both GI output connectors say 'to Insert Board'
 
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Just an update, I'm still awaiting the molex punch down tool from Pinball Heaven. I am going to take the board off again at the weekend and resolder this pin on J115 (I think that's it). Will try and melt the burned solder and reflow it.

Just going back to basics for a second ....have you tried a known working flashlamp in each of the suspect holders ?

Yes. I've tested and the bulb works in another socket.

The sling lights show up on the backbox but not the under sling itself.

That said. The lights I'm talking about - I'm in two minds if they're called "sling" because they're a really on the flipper. See pic.

Can anyone with a T2 go into test mode and see which tests light those up please?
 

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