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Judge Dredd 2 Switches firing at the same time

Julian

Julian

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Joined
Mar 23, 2014
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Bromley
Having an issue with the 3-bank 'Tank' target in test mode when I press this switch the plum-bob tilt switch also activates it also does this in play, i.e. when one hits the 3-bank tank target you get a 'warning' and if you keep hitting a tilt.

Now these switches are in the same column but not next to each other, I have tested other switchs in the same column and others are fine.

Switches are Plum bob tilt SW14 & 3-bank target SW18.

Also if I trigger the plum bob then it only trigger that and NOT the 3-bank.

Any suggestions for further diagnosis and a possible cure.

Could it be a diode fault?
 
I had a very similar problem on my shadow, one of the standup targets was causing slam tilts, it was my fault though, a wire had come off that target and I soldered it back onto the wrong lug.
 
So can I test the diodes in circuit? i.e. if I unplug the switch connectors to the MPU board or do I really need to unsolder them one by one.
 
Thanks for advice thus far.

Having looked deeper into the issue I am still baffled and without a resolution!

As you can see below I have a rectangle of the switches that 'I thought' were causing the issue, to recap;

SW18 3 Bank Targets is triggering the SW14 Plumb Bob Tilt, as is SW28 Subway Enter 2.

The very strange thing is; I have disconnected J209 & J207 from the MPU board in order to test the diodes in place and some appear fine and some appear faulty so I changed some of the 'faulty' ones only to find out that out of the game the diodes are fine!

Thus far I have changed the diodes out 'on the corners of the rectangle' so SW34, SW38, SW18, and put in a new coin-door board hence replaced the Plumb bob tilt diode.

Yet still I get the issue.

Again some diodes in the game meter fine some meter as a short, but then I found on those if I activate the switch the diode is connected to it reads properly.

I have even tried connecting the green 'middle' switch wire just in case, yet the diode on some switches reads as if its bad but actuate the switch and it reads true.

Could there be a wiring or switch fault?


Office Lens 20160715-154028.jpg
 
I had an issue like this on my vector, also caused by a drop target. I was getting a switch triggering that was not even used !

On vector i had a short on a switch in the same row or column caused by a bare switch wire touching another wire beneath the playfield. Could it be that the motion of the drop target is moving a wire and causing a short ?

I would also try every switch in the game to see whether any others are causing trouble
 
Arghhhh!

All the diodes appear just fine, I've even replaced loads just to find them fine out of the machine.

Do opto's have diodes? How are the checked?
As I need to check ALL switches in the column & row.

I presume Super Game button, start button and fire buttons all have diodes on the coin interface board as does the tilt bob I guess. I've swapped this board out and still get the issue.

How do I test trough 4 switch diode?
 
Julian said:
Thanks for advice thus far.

Having looked deeper into the issue I am still baffled and without a resolution!

As you can see below I have a rectangle of the switches that 'I thought' were causing the issue, to recap;

SW18 3 Bank Targets is triggering the SW14 Plumb Bob Tilt, as is SW28 Subway Enter 2.

The very strange thing is; I have disconnected J209 & J207 from the MPU board in order to test the diodes in place and some appear fine and some appear faulty so I changed some of the 'faulty' ones only to find out that out of the game the diodes are fine!

Thus far I have changed the diodes out 'on the corners of the rectangle' so SW34, SW38, SW18, and put in a new coin-door board hence replaced the Plumb bob tilt diode.

Yet still I get the issue.

Again some diodes in the game meter fine some meter as a short, but then I found on those if I activate the switch the diode is connected to it reads properly.

I have even tried connecting the green 'middle' switch wire just in case, yet the diode on some switches reads as if its bad but actuate the switch and it reads true.

Could there be a wiring or switch fault?


View attachment 32739
Click to expand...
Did you check to see if the diodes were the right way round?

I would check the diode on the 3 bank first.

If they are all good and the right way round I'd trace wires from switch to switch looking for anything out of sorts.
 
yep from what I can see all diodes are the correct way round, they also test ok.
 
Okay - I had this very problem a few weeks ago on a JD. Basically - if anyone has removed the DEADWORLD assembly at any point you will find there is a 2 wire molex plug coming from it. That molex plug can go onto TWO connectors on the loom (approx in the middle of the game at the back). If you get them the wrong way round you will see that the solid colour, and white with band wire do not match up to the other side of the molex connector.

It took me a couple of hours to find this - but I also notice in switch test, if you press the flippers the dead world motor moves a tiny bit.
 
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I did some more fault finding, I used the multimeter in diode / continuity test to see if the row wires were good between switches in the row 4 (white & Yellow).

What I found was strange as I would have thought I should get full continuity on the white & yellow wire on all switches in that row, most I did but a few I got .516 which would indicate a diode reading!

Does this indicate a green & white wire on a switch in that row is connected wrongly?
 
Have you checked to see if the molex connector (with two cables) has been plugged in correctly from the dead world? Like I said - I had the exact same fault - it was a simple error on the owners part after he took it apart and cleaned it.
This cured exactly the same fault as you have!
 
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Pick Holder said:
Have you checked to see if the molex connector (with two cables) has been plugged in correctly from the dead world? Like I said - I had the exact same fault - it was a simple error on the owners part after he took it apart and cleaned it.
This cured exactly the same fault as you have!
Click to expand...

Pick, so your 2 molex were swapped over? And you were getting 2 switches firing at the same time?
 
It is not my personal machine and it is now off site.

It was exactly the same fault. In random times in the game it would show TILT and customers moaned and wouldnt play or wanted a refrund.

Lift up your playfield and check the loom of wires from the dead world. The one with just 2 cables onto a 2 way molex can go onto another connector. It is obvious when you find this kind of fault but it is so difficult to find.

The wires to the plumb bob is on a totally different loom and onto a totally different connector on the CPU board that all the playfirled switches are on.

My original thoughts on the fault was diodes, as pointed out by many. But it just seems so weird you have EXACTLY the smae symptons.

On the JD you will find on the wiring loom two possible places for that twin wire to go. But when you look closely the colours are different.

Have you checked these?
 
Pick,

I am at work right now but will check tonight, how odd though as the boards and molex I think you are talking about are the deadworld light boards correct?

I'll take a look and report back.

Cheers

Julian
 
Okay - lift the playfield. I think 3 groups of wires going to different connectors go from the dead world assembly - thru the playfield and connect onto the loom.

From memory the connectors are nearly at the bottom of the playfield and ore more on the left hand side.

One of these molex on the JD I repaired was plugged into the incorrect molex. So you are looking for a connector like this:

They are all inline type molex. These wires do not connect onto a board.
 
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OK a further update;

If I disconnected the J1 connector on the coin interface board and the switch errors do not happen, but plug it back in and I get the two switches firing.

I've tried to narrow it down further with no luck, as disconnecting the other coin interface connectors one-by-one leaving J1 connected the error still happens, so I dont think its a front or side cabinet switch issue like fire, start or supergame.

One thing I did notice is if I plug in J1 from the bottom of the connector so only the lower pins make connection the fault does not happen until almost the last 1 or 2 (top) pins are connected and this is where I notice switch 25 (always closed) kicks in and its when this switch is active I get the issue.

Again I have tried another coin door board and still get the same issue.

Any suggestions?
 
do you mean switch 24 Julian.... Note:

On WPC games switch 24 is always closed (there actually is no switch) and the blocking diode is located on the coin door board.

could this be the source of your woes
 
Johnnyo said:
do you mean switch 24 Julian.... Note:

On WPC games switch 24 is always closed (there actually is no switch) and the blocking diode is located on the coin door board.

could this be the source of your woes
Click to expand...

Opps yes switch 24
 
My first machine was a JD and it had the older mechanical coin mechs with a 3 slot coin door not the more modern C220 single slot door can't remember what sort of interface board it had though just wondering if it's the right door
/interface board on your machine
 
Johnnyo said:
My first machine was a JD and it had the older mechanical coin mechs with a 3 slot coin door not the more modern C220 single slot door can't remember what sort of interface board it had though just wondering if it's the right door
/interface board on your machine
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice, when I found that disconnecting J1 on the coin interface I decided to also remove the coin mech & cable to the coin interface board sadly the issue is still there.
 
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